Posts by OrphanCrow

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

Richard, why do you need a peer reviewed article that specifically states that? Are you not capable of rationally analyzing this on your own? Can you not access a list of characteristics of a high control group and compare it to the WTS?

It is a simple exercise that does not require peer reviewed articles that directly speak of the WTS. There is plenty of information from recognized mental health professionals that lay down the parameters of what defines a high control group. You are fully capable of inserting "characteristics of a high control group" into your search engine and rationally choosing those sources that are attached to a mental health professional that has at least a PHD from a credible university

Just do a comparison. It isn't difficult - there is lots of available credible material that can be accessed for this exercise. It is a rational exercise, not an emotional one

I have been trying to understand my own involvement in your thread here, Richard. I normally don't bother to engage with these type of threads and the conclusion I came to as to why I have bothered to try to converse with you is that I am experiencing a feeling of compassion for you. And for others like you.

You are intelligent. You deserve to arrive at a place where you can use your intelligence to sever the emotional tie you have to the org. I propose to you that your attachment and defense of the org arises from your need for security and surety. The org's restrictive policies and apparent surety of future is what fills that emotional need you have for security. The org's black and white teachings and the rigid structure gives the illusion of security that satisfies you emotionally.

I look forward to the day that you, and others like you, feel safe enough to think on your own and that you will find your authentic self. And have the freedom to be that person.

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

Richard: And you feel it is not a subjective thing, but you say it is an absolute fact.

I was right. You do have a problem with terminology.

"Feel" has nothing at all to do with what I "think". My thinking on this matter is a rational process and "feeling" is an irrational process

I do not feel what I said - I think it

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

But you think that even if you presented, whatever facts, not opinions, that it would be automatic that the majority of the general public would say Watchtower is a high control organisation....

Outlaw is right. I didn't say that. I did not say that it would "be automatic". I am well aware that not everyone in the general public has the capacity to comprehend and analyze facts that are presented to them

I am aware that nothing is "automatic" in the general public - there are stupid people everywhere. And the willfully ignorant.

However, I still have faith, as misguided as that may be, that the majority of people in the general public know how to do something as simple as compare of a list of characteristics that fall within the parameters of what defines "high control" against the characteristics of an existing organization

And, that is not a subjective exercise. It is dependent upon the ability/intelligence of the persons involved, but it is not subjective

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

Richard, you are so wrong that I don't even know where to start.

If you find that defining an organization as "high control" is a far fetched concept....then I doubt you have the capacity to define what a fact is, what an opinion is...etc

Determining whether or not the WTS fits the parameters of what would constitute a high control organization is not about forming a subjective "opinion". Choosing to reject the evidence, however, is a subjective action...which you are doing

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

richard: I also suspect that if you ask on here if Watchtower is a high control organization, you would get a resounding yes. But that is not an automatic when you ask the general public. But that is not an automatic when you ask the general public.

Yeah. Guess why that is?

It is because the general public does not have all the facts

Being uninformed does not make a subjective opinion valid

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

What I described was an exclusively subjective scenario.

No it isn't. You inserted a third person into the scenario - the one asking the question. That person would have an objective view of the situation

I truly feel like I am trying to talk to a person in an abusive relationship when I am replying to you, Richard. You display exactly the same kind of twisted logic to rationalize your experience

For ur analogy to be apt you have to accept the theory that Watchtower is a high control organization. And again that is your opinion...

You have a comprehension problem.

You do not understand basic terms such as "theory", "facts", subjectivity, objectivity...etc, etc. and on and on....

You think you do, but you don't.

Now, like I am fond of saying, you can call it a tuna fish sandwich if you like. BUT, if it is black, has four legs, walks low to the ground and has a white stripe running down its back...it ain't no tuna fish sandwich. It's a skunk.

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

Finkelstein: Once that is confirmed and that rumor is spread like wild fire, JWs will shun you like the plague.

Richard knows this. That is why he carefully selected which of his JW friends he was going to reveal himself to: " I didn't tell everyone, but that was my choice."

Yes - your choice, Richard. You picked the safe ones. And why? Because you knew that the JWs are homophobic. You picked those who you thought would accept you and keep your secret.

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

richard: So you are saying you can take two African American men and put them into the same situation and if one says that he felt racially prejudiced against and the other feels that he did not experience racial prejudice. You are going to call one of them a liar and believe the other one?

I know you addressed this to Outlaw but...I think you are just being silly now.

Let me give you another, similar situation. Instead of two black men, take two women who are in an abusive relationship and ask them the same question. Ask them if they think they are abused.

I would bet money that at least one of them, if not both, would say, "What?? Who? me??? NO! I am not abused! No way!"

Do you know what that phenomena is called? It is called Stockholm Syndrome. Look it up. It fits that abused woman situation, it fits the example you gave with the black men, and it fits YOU to a "T".

Richard, you are displaying signs of experiencing Stockholm Syndrome.

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

Richard, I totally accept that what you have described as your subjective experience is just that - your subjective, anecdotal experience.

Of course it is.

What I think others, and myself, have been trying to say is that you are experiencing incongruence.

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

That is sad, Richard. It truly is.

I don't want to burst your bubble...but, how do you know what those people thought or what they said about you when you weren't there.

I will make a wild guess and say that you served a valuable service for them in some sort of position that took on a workload that gave them the opportunity to say," Oh, look at brother so and so! He works so hard for the org and you wouldn't even know he is one of those homos! Ah, well...as long as he keeps serving Jehovah and doesn't make the org look bad by actually practicing his sexuality, we will smile and gave him credit! After all...who would do his job if he left?"

I am glad that you felt like you were validated as a human being by other JWs - that was nice of them.