Posts by OrphanCrow

99

January 19, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN WALES Re: Prerecorded Memorial and Special Talk 2017 - Welsh

by wifibandit in

january 19, 2017 to all bodies of elders in wales re: prerecorded memorial and special talk 2017 - welsh.

OrphanCrow

Joe: I also suspect that WT may be in receipt of government subsidies for 'promotion of the Welsh language'.

^^^This^^^

Richard Oliver, you come across as having knowledge about how the WTS operates. Any comment on the possibility that the org receives grants/subsidies/special considerations, etc., for providing language services?

Language revitalization is a popular global initiative. How does the org's language initiatives fit in that framework? Do they take advantage of the monies available for such an endeavor?

Or are the translation operations of the WTS simply a "charitable activity" that enables the org to have tax-free status?

28

A problem for believers

by Bugbear in

a problem for believers!.

a majority of the world’s population acknowledge that they believe in a superior god or in their creator.

they also claim that they have got this special understanding and knowledge of his will and his law.

OrphanCrow

“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.” ― Susan B. Anthony.

99

January 19, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN WALES Re: Prerecorded Memorial and Special Talk 2017 - Welsh

by wifibandit in

january 19, 2017 to all bodies of elders in wales re: prerecorded memorial and special talk 2017 - welsh.

OrphanCrow

RO: There is a legal definition of control over a corporation. The governing body does not have seats on the board of directors, nor are they voting members of the corporation. Technically the directors of the corporation can tell the GB to go and screw off if they wanted too, from a legal point of view. It is does the person have legal control over an organization or are they an employee of that corporation. The only thing that the GB are members of is the ROSFSJW.

Exactly.

That is what people on this forum and elsewhere have been saying for ages. And yet, whenever the suggestion comes up that the GB doesn't control the WTS and that the control of the org is "behind the scenes"...then everybody jumps up and down and accuses the person who made that claim as being a conspiracy nut.

All the energy that people put into railing against the GB is pretty much useless - it is the corporation that has the power, not the GB

52

Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

by processor in

http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

OrphanCrow

Even Stalin could not eliminate Jehovah's Witnesses

JEHOVAH AND THE PROSECUTOR. HOW THE STATE COMBATS A SECT

Representative of organization says the actions of government confirm prophecy by Jesus Christ

by Anton Bykov

Open Russia, 17 January 2017

The Jehovah's Witnesses—one of the largest religious organizations in the world—may be banned in Russia because of the distribution of extremist literature. In several cities adherents of this organization have already found themselves outside the law. Law enforcement agencies have pursued Jehovists for several years, and after the adoption of the antiextremist law in the country several regional congregations have been liquidated and witnesses have been subjected to criminal prosecution. However in the past year the prosecutor general began a decisive attack on Jehovah's Witnesses, threatening to enter the organizations into the list of extremists. In that case, all of its branches will be closed and the Jehovists themselves, who number in Russia about 100,000, will be deprived of the possibility of openly professing their religious views.

On Monday, 16 January, a Moscow city court declined to satisfy an appeal filed by Jehovah's Witnesses against the action of the prosecutor general's office. Thereby the decision of a lower instance, which earlier had recognized as legal the warning about the impermissibility of committing extremist activity issued by the prosecutor's office against the Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses, remained in force.

*read full article at link - good background information

more here: National Jehovah's Witnesses center rebuffed in court

52

Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

by processor in

http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

OrphanCrow

schnell: Is there a more credible source for this news than something like "star connect media"?

From Forum18 May 2016:

RUSSIA: Jehovah's Witnesses face possible liquidation

*edit to add more info about the ECHR:

http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=1724

European Court of Human Rights
While very slow, one possibility for redress against misapplication of the 2002 Extremism Law is the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. In June 2010 Jehovah's Witnesses lodged a complaint with the European Court over Russia's upholding of the Rostov regional ban on 34 Jehovah's Witness titles and their Taganrog community (Application No. 32401/10). By March 2012, Jehovah's Witnesses had submitted a further 13 applications to the European Court centring on numerous "counter-extremism" actions by the Russian state, including raids, prosecutions and bans on literature. The Court has yet to declare these cases admissible, and if it does it will be some years before they are heard.

52

Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

by processor in

http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

OrphanCrow

kpop: I'm sorry but I must side with Russia on this because they see the JW for what it is- a cult, not a normal religion and for that Russia is 100% right. This has nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with stopping cults not stopping religion or free speech because cults are damaging to families and communities!

The blood transfusion ban is a critical point that Russia uses to define the JWs as "extremist":

http://forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2197

Other prohibited aims are more specific, including "the encouragement of suicide or the refusal on religious grounds of medical assistance to persons in a life- or health-endangering condition" and "the motivation of citizens to refuse to fulfil their civic duties as established by law and to commit other illegal acts" (see F18News 4 July 2016 http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2195).

These accusations have been made against Jehovah's Witness communities in suits to have them liquidated as "extremist" (alongside more specific allegations of distribution of "extremist" literature), based on their refusal of blood transfusions and conscientious objection to military service (see eg. F18News 24 May 2016 http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2181).

I will look for the case in Russia (it is somewhere on the Forum18 website) where a couple had ate poisonous mushrooms and the only anitdote was a blood transfusion. The man accepted one but the JW wife refused. The congregation rallied around her intially, a JW lawyer got involved, made a stink about her getting a "bloodless" treatment, the hospital acquiesced to the WT lawyer's demands and agreed to transfer her to another hospital, but nobody from the congregation showed up to take the woman to the other hospital for treatment and they never heard from the lawyer again. The JW woman and the staff waited...and then at the very last, the JW woman accepted blood. It was too late. She died.

52

Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

by processor in

http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

OrphanCrow

Well, that didn't take long.

According to the ECHR, there were "6" judgments handed down in 2016 for cases that involved the Jehovah's Witnesses. *oops - edit - hang on...I just did a search for "jehovah" but haven't checked the case details...that may be a wrong number)

That is nowhere near the number you had stated, Fisherman:

WT claims around 223 -to be exact.

The ECHR claims ~~6. To be exact.~~

You had said:

Winning hundreds of cases in 2016 alone in the ECHR ! --the WT will also win this case

Can you back this number up with sources, Fisherman? Or is this just a rumor that floats around in WT land?

*edit to add - it looks like "jehovah" used for a search term showed up cases where it was a reference in another case. There actually is only one case that the Jehovah's Witnesses won - the one in Turkey

One ECHR case won in 2016.

Please correct me if I have made another mistake...

52

Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

by processor in

http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

OrphanCrow

Ah...Fisherman, I think I have misinterpreted initially what you had said. This is my mistake.

You had said:

Winning hundreds of cases in 2016 alone in the ECHR ! --the WT will also win this case; If Russia will follow the ruling and what they will do remains to be seen.

Because this was thread about Russia, I had taken the 223 number for Russia alone and instead, that number is for the cases heard in the European Court of Human Rights.

My figures and sources were about the cases in Russia alone.

I will read up on the ECHR.

*I need another coffee

52

Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

by processor in

http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

OrphanCrow

Fisherman: OC, are you saying that proof of WT claims (assuming the figure is correct and theirs) regarding the actual number of cases adjudicated by the ECHR in 2016 involving JW, discredits the credibility of your source?
(And by the the way, thanks for the link.)

You are welcome, Fisherman. Forum 18 is a good site for checking on the details of what is happening with various religious sects in Russia and it shows that the JW's claim to persecution is not an exclusive domain.

I am not sure exactly what you are getting at though, Fisherman. What I am saying is that what the WT claims and what external sources show differs. I regard WT "claims" as just that - claims only.

As far as the number of 223 cases in 2016 alone goes, the disparity between what Forum 18 reports and the number given by the WT is significant. They differ enough to throw the WT claim into doubt. It could be that the "223" number is referring to the total number of charges rather than cases and I would make a guess that it is over a longer period of time than just 2016.

The WT has a habit of presenting their "facts"/numbers in such a way that the number is correct but it has been presented in a way that conveys a different impression than what the number actually means.

52

Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

by processor in

http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

OrphanCrow

Fisherman: ...but I did not conclude that WT was lying

It is hard to wrap your head around, isn't it? So many years of buying into the WT's numbers game that it is difficult to examine the veracity of the WT's claims to numbers. A person's brain gets programmed to accept WT "facts" just because those "facts" are presented as a numerical value.

The WT lies about their history. They lie about their doctrine changes. They lie about protecting children. They lie about numbers. And they also lie about their legal record.

The Watchtower lies. Their lips are moving.

*to add (sorry - cross posting)

But what I also don't see is how your linked source disproves the number that I posted because you feel that your source "would have been all over it" or would have established the number as true.

I dunno...I guess it has been because I have been following Forum 18's news service for the past few years. They present credible evidence in their articles. I have no reason to disbelieve what they report. Forum 18 is about protecting freedom of worship - they highlight human rights abuses - if the WT had that many cases, it would bolster the Forum 18's position so of course they would have reported on those "missing" cases