Posts by OrphanCrow

8

Heinrich Himmler and the Jehovah's Witnesses

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

this is a letter written in july 1944 by heinrich himmler, one of the most powerful men in nazi germany.. i have encountered quotes taken from this letter before but i have never read the letter in its entirety.

this is a translated copy from a russian website:.

http://www.k-istine.ru/sects/iegova_witness/iegova_witness_himmler-02.htm.

OrphanCrow

dropoffyourkey: A great dose of skepticism here, from this old Ohio boy

What is it that you are skeptical of, Dropoff?

Are you skeptical that Himmler wrote this letter? Are you skeptical that this is a correct translation of the entire letter?

This letter has been quoted by several authors - some time ago I read an excerpt from this letter that was published in a credible source (it has been years since I researched Himmler and I can't remember in which book I first encountered this letter though...it may have been in Padfield's biography or in one of the books about the SS that I read). It is not too difficult to find reference to Himmler's post war plans for the JWs but it is only on the Russian website that I found the entire letter. Usually just small extracts are printed.

According to this webpage here, it may be possible that at least a part of the letter is published in "Unshaken Will" by Bernard Rammerstorfer which is a book about Leopold Engleitner. I am unable to access the book to check that out.

I am not skeptical about this letter. It fits within everything I have read about Heinrich Himmler.

*to add:

This should lay to rest any skepticism over whether Himmler had post war plans for the JWs and any skepticism as to the date of the letter. From CIA files:

For an understanding of Himmler's Eastern racial policy one must remember that
with his education in animal husbandry, his impressionable years as a disciple of
Rosenberg, Ludendorff, and Hitler, and his passion for breeding rabbits, Himmler seriously
thought of himself as a breeder of men and nations. His projects within the SS
are sufficient evidence of this distorted conviction; and the opposite side of his delusion
that he could breed a German racial "elite" was his conviction that he could
destroy the vital force of other nationalities. His approach to this problem is illustrated
by a memorandum of 21 July 1944, addressed to Kaltenbrunner, head of the
RSHA, and circulated only in the highest Nazi circles, in which Himmler outlines a
fantastie project to establish a new zone of German settlement in the Russian territories.
Within this zone, the native elements were to be forced into a "peaceful and
disarmed frame of mind," which required the imposition of a religion, unlike Orthodox
or Catholic Christianity, which would induce a submissive spirit. Towards this end
Himmler proposed using as missionaries the pacifistic Bibelforscher (Bible Students),
who had in his eyes "really ideal qualities," among them oppOsition to the Jews, the
Catholic Church, and the Pope, while for the Turcoman tribes he suggested the introduction
of Buddhism. As a first step towards this scheme he proposed more lenient
treatment of the Bibelforicher then imprisoned in concentration camps, thus permitting
their use for "confidential work" within the camps as a preparation for this later
missionary work in conquered Russia!

8

Heinrich Himmler and the Jehovah's Witnesses

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

this is a letter written in july 1944 by heinrich himmler, one of the most powerful men in nazi germany.. i have encountered quotes taken from this letter before but i have never read the letter in its entirety.

this is a translated copy from a russian website:.

http://www.k-istine.ru/sects/iegova_witness/iegova_witness_himmler-02.htm.

OrphanCrow

This is a letter written in July 1944 by Heinrich Himmler, one of the most powerful men in Nazi Germany.

I have encountered quotes taken from this letter before but I have never read the letter in its entirety. This is a translated copy from a Russian website:

http://www.k-istine.ru/sects/iegova_witness/iegova_witness_himmler-02.htm

We will get rid of the use of Communists by Jehovah's Witnesses

Letter from the Reichsführer SS Himmler, July 21, 1944.

Reichsfuehrer SS

RF / M

Field command post, July 21, 1944

Dear Kaltenbrunner!

Many events and problems have recently led to the emergence of subsequent considerations and the following ideas.

The problems are Jehovah's witnesses, the Cossack issue and the related Vlasov question, as well as the overall complex: how we want to rule Russia and maintain peace on its territory, when - which will undoubtedly happen in the next few years - we will again conquer large spaces and areas, owned.

1) In my opinion, Stalin and his follower, if he will be a Bolshevik, will not depart from the collective farm system. In the opinion of the Reich Minister for Food and Agriculture Bakke, Stalin, even if he wants to back off, will not be able to do this for purely material reasons: due to a shortage of tractors, plows, harrows and draft animals. If Stalin and Bolshevism do not want to back away from the collective farm system, each independent peasant will by nature be his enemy. Reconciliation between them will not happen.

2) Before the German East Wall, which we once build, we should, taking the examples of the military border of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Russian example of sedentary Cossacks and soldiers, arrange the eastern frontier of defense by the forces of the new Cossacks. The landed estates, a completely independent existence and freedom will, according to our code, be granted to the Ukrainian and Russian population only at the Cossack border. Here there will be full-fledged peasant estates with the condition of carrying from 16 to 60 years of life of the soldiers' service at the border, against attacks from the East. The fact of owning land, as well as constantly and continuously shedding blood on both sides, will breed enmity for years and decades without the chances of subsequent reconciliation.

3) In the rear area, which will become a land for German settlers, we want to introduce land partnerships with small private estates, as we have done recently in Ukraine, as well as purely German settlements.

The most active and active elements will be constantly self-destroying, as they will be dragged to the border, where we use them for the soldiers' service on our side.

However, in order to achieve a peaceful and unarmed coexistence from the people in the rear, we must go further. Any idea of introducing National Socialism there is insane. But people should have a religion or worldview. To maintain and revitalize the Orthodox Church is incorrect, since it will become a place for the organization of the national movement. It is at least as wrong to let the Catholic Church go there, and there's nothing to say about it.

4) We must support any form or kind of religion or sect that would have a pacifying effect. For all the Turkic peoples, the introduction of the Buddhist teaching comes to mind here, for everyone else - the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses.

As you should know, Jehovah's Witnesses have the following extremely useful qualities for us:

Except for military service and work for military purposes, i.е. use for, as they say "destructive" activities, Jehovah's Witnesses are extremely opposed to the Jews, against the Catholic Church and the Pope. They are incredibly sensible, do not drink or smoke, are extremely diligent and very honest, keep the word, are excellent cattle-breeders and peasants, are not fixated on wealth and prosperity, since it hinders eternal life. In general, these are all - ideal qualities. It can be concluded that the core of convinced, idealistic witnesses of Jehovah possesses enviable good qualities like Mennonites.

5) For this reason, I would like Jehovah's Witnesses in our camps to be checked by special commissions to see if they are real Jehovah's witnesses. In order that those who just handed themselves for a Jehovah's Witness just before the arrest or already in the camp for practical reasons were excluded. Thus, we will get rid of the use of Jehovah's Witnesses by Communists and the dubious so-called Jehovah's Witnesses, whom I here and there met in farmsteads, for example, in Friedolfing (Upper Bavaria). There is, further, the possibility of using real Jehovah's Witnesses in concentration camps at all responsible posts related to monetary or other material matters, and especially good handling. Thanks to this, we will take the first step to engage the German Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia in the future and obtain emissaries who, by spreading the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses, will pacify the Russian people.

Yours, H. Himmler

BA NS19 / 1627,

translation by Igor Petrov

Translator's note. Himmler uses the term Bibelforscher - "Bible researchers", which is somewhat wider than the "Jehovah's Witnesses", but it is the latter.

Portal-Credo.Ru - 03.10.2011.

12

AAAAAAAArrgh!

by zeb in

sir simon,.

how many dozen bloody times do i have to do the capcha thing before i get in.

one round of street signs or cars and that was it.

OrphanCrow

Ha!

You think you are finished, Punky?

Now select all the boxes with the street signs in them

Image result for cardboard boxes

Good luck with that

I just stayed signed in, Zeb. That way, I get to keep all of my hair

17

Greetings from a from J Dub and current Psychology of Religion scientist

by Aaron James Eldridge in

jw
friends

greeting everyone!

it is good to be back on here, i used to be on here years ago (prob.

8ish) under the moniker mystruggle.

OrphanCrow

Aaron: And the academics will only understand/accept when research is conducted in a fashion they deem as credible.

As well they should.

That is why they are called academics. Validity and reliability = credibility

Good luck in your studies. Sounds like fun

34

CT Russell, he loved and supported genocidal militants.

by lastmanstanding in

i have the first volumes of the watchtower from the 1800's to the 1900's.. .

i will highlight vol.

2 january 15, 1892 to help the reader understand the truth regarding russell and his supposed appointment as, what the watchtower this year referred to, "he certainly was that minister" ...making vague reference to his being called "the laodicean minister" (found on his tombstone).

OrphanCrow

http://www.agsconsulting.com/articles/zionists.htm

29

Congregation dwindles

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i think we are going to be seeing lots more of this stuff.

.

http://www.capjournal.com/news/pierre-jehovah-s-witnesses-put-up-smaller-kingdom-hall-to/article_e05d9c36-d8b9-11e7-acb3-9f63fb65c896.html.

OrphanCrow

Pete: It seems odd that a religious group who goes around recruiting new members with the intent to grow the congregation, bring in new members and supposedly save lives, would tear down a relatively new and larger building to install what looks to be a double wide mobile home, in disguise.

I know, right?

Where did the building come from?

Why were the volunteers from Oregon?

Who did they buy the building from? A JW firm in Oregon?

32

Is Trump the President of Jerusalem too?

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

your thoughts...how is it that trump can dictate what goes on in other countries?

can anyone from another country come here and tell us what to do...trump is now the president of the world now, uh?.

i'm not really savvy regarding politics but i'm no dummy either...what the heck is going on in the world.... again, any thoughts ?

OrphanCrow

An article to give context:

(little boy Kushner is at it again)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/12/04/kushner-has-no-idea-what-he-is-saying-about-the-middle-east/?utm_term=.c24c9311a6f5

Kushner doesn't really have an education, does he? His degrees were bought, weren't they? He should have paid better attention during class

(for background of background context, etc: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/09/jared-kushner-family-empire-observer)

A great example of how political decisions are driven by religious ideology

34

CT Russell, he loved and supported genocidal militants.

by lastmanstanding in

i have the first volumes of the watchtower from the 1800's to the 1900's.. .

i will highlight vol.

2 january 15, 1892 to help the reader understand the truth regarding russell and his supposed appointment as, what the watchtower this year referred to, "he certainly was that minister" ...making vague reference to his being called "the laodicean minister" (found on his tombstone).

OrphanCrow

Russell's hopes and fears and dreams for 1914 were all tied up with his expectations for the establishment of the Jewish homeland. Everything about his doctrine revolved around that event.

Russel's 1914 "prophecy" had more to do with the anticipated Balfour Declaration than it had to do with any invisible arrival of Christ

34

CT Russell, he loved and supported genocidal militants.

by lastmanstanding in

i have the first volumes of the watchtower from the 1800's to the 1900's.. .

i will highlight vol.

2 january 15, 1892 to help the reader understand the truth regarding russell and his supposed appointment as, what the watchtower this year referred to, "he certainly was that minister" ...making vague reference to his being called "the laodicean minister" (found on his tombstone).

OrphanCrow

reslight2: The only religion Russell believed in, however, was that of Jesus and his apostles, as revealed in the Bible. He did not believe in starting a new religion. Nevertheless, after Russell died, Rutherford rejected the message of the "ransom for all," "glad tidings of great joy that will be for all the people", and replaced it with a message that is almost the opposite of what Russell spent his life preaching and defending. The message of the JWs definitely does not come from Russell, but rather the basic message was developed by Rutherford, and, actually rejects the central message that Russell preached, that Christ died for all, and that all will be saved from Adamic death and come to a knowledge of Christ. The "8 million people 100 years later" who are now preaching a message of "join our organization or you may be eternally destroyed" are definitely not preaching the gospel message that Russell preached. Indeed, it is almost the opposite of what Russell taught.

Russell taught a Zionist doctrine. A dual covenant doctrine of salvation whereby all would be saved - Jew and Gentile alike. Jesus came for all. (but especially for Chuckie)

The Jewish homeland figured prominently in Russell's doctrines

Rutherford changed that to a replacement theology*. Whereby the Jehovah's witnesses, his new and improved religion, would replace the Jews as God's chosen people. A Jew would have to convert to Rutherford's religion to qualify for salvation

*Rutherford didn't just replace the Jews themselves with his religion adherents, he also replaced their homeland. Jerusalem was re-located to California

29

Congregation dwindles

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i think we are going to be seeing lots more of this stuff.

.

http://www.capjournal.com/news/pierre-jehovah-s-witnesses-put-up-smaller-kingdom-hall-to/article_e05d9c36-d8b9-11e7-acb3-9f63fb65c896.html.

OrphanCrow

Dps: Why do you think that?
South Dakota Population = 865,454
US JW-to-Population Ratio = 263
Therefore JWs in South Dakota is expected to be around = 3,290
The article says 330, therefore most likely they've missed the last '0'.
Additionally it appears that the figure of 3,330 was actually obtained in the first place by doing the above calculation.

Two people have identified themselves as "serving where the need was great" in South Dakota.

Which indicates that the area had a lower population ratio of JWs than other places in the States. If the journalist did, indeed, just do a calculation based on numbers that extrapolates the SD JW population from the US JW population ratios, then it is likely too high.