OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  36

  Blood Issue.......something for thought, where is the logic.

  by CovertsadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have yet to read about the contradictions in the jw teachings on blood, but i have personally witnessed one.

  i am a medical professional and have seen hemopure administered for an active jw who did refuse a blood transfusion.

  its not fda approved here, but given in special life saving circumstances.

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  OrphanCrow

  Oh, I get what you are saying now, Crazyguy. Yes, the org okays hemoglobin. There is no disputing that. Hemoglobin is red blood cells.

  The contradiction exists between the WT/Org policy and the scriptures that they say they base their blood ban on.
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  36

  Blood Issue.......something for thought, where is the logic.

  by CovertsadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have yet to read about the contradictions in the jw teachings on blood, but i have personally witnessed one.

  i am a medical professional and have seen hemopure administered for an active jw who did refuse a blood transfusion.

  its not fda approved here, but given in special life saving circumstances.

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  OrphanCrow

  crazyguy: Actually a JW can have human hemoglobin.
  There is no contradiction on this point about their blood policy.

  Please explain how this is "no contradiction"

  From my research the human hemoglobin for some reason is less effective then the product Hemopure.

  Again, please explain. More detail needed. Do you mean the blood substitute made from expired human blood, or do you mean human blood, as commonly used in blood transfusions when red blood cells are needed?
  

  The FDA stopped human trials of hemopure because it did not work as well as human blood and because there were too many fatalities and associated health risks
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  36

  Blood Issue.......something for thought, where is the logic.

  by CovertsadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have yet to read about the contradictions in the jw teachings on blood, but i have personally witnessed one.

  i am a medical professional and have seen hemopure administered for an active jw who did refuse a blood transfusion.

  its not fda approved here, but given in special life saving circumstances.

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  OrphanCrow

  sir82: You'll be waiting a good long time if you hope to hear a connection between "logic" and "JW policy & beliefs".

  Actually, anytime I have looked for some sort of connection, I always found it in the $$$ to be made.
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  36

  Blood Issue.......something for thought, where is the logic.

  by CovertsadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have yet to read about the contradictions in the jw teachings on blood, but i have personally witnessed one.

  i am a medical professional and have seen hemopure administered for an active jw who did refuse a blood transfusion.

  its not fda approved here, but given in special life saving circumstances.

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  OrphanCrow

  You are welcome, Steve.

  a topic that is not often heard in ex-JW circles

  I don't know why it isn't heard more often.

  How much more can it be in a person's face that the Org/WTS has lied about the "blood ban"? Not only is the Hemopure "approval" in direct contradiction to the scriptural basis for the ban, but it isn't too difficult to unearth the connection between Hemopure and the US military (and don't forget about STORMACT).

  The Org/WTS prohibits a JW from wearing a military uniform, but the Org itself (through the Hospital Information Services and their HLC squad) arranges for a JW to wear a hospital gown in "service to their country".

  I don't get it. How did this happen? Why is it okay for the WTS to collaborate with the military when it comes to blood, but JWs go to jail when they refuse to serve? Do JWs who die after getting a transfusion of cow's blood, get taken to the morgue with an American flag draped over them?
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  36

  Blood Issue.......something for thought, where is the logic.

  by CovertsadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have yet to read about the contradictions in the jw teachings on blood, but i have personally witnessed one.

  i am a medical professional and have seen hemopure administered for an active jw who did refuse a blood transfusion.

  its not fda approved here, but given in special life saving circumstances.

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  OrphanCrow

  *correction to earlier post - the veterinary product that is used on dogs, and is produced by the same company that makes Hemopure, is called Oxyglobin, not Oxygent

  Another thing about Hemopure...the development and testing of the product is financed by the US Navy.

  From the above link:

  Under its research agreement with Biopure, the Naval Medical Research Center (NMRC) has primary responsibility for designing, seeking Food and Drug Administration (FDA) acceptance of and conducting a proposed Phase 2/3 clinical trial of Hemopure in trauma patients with severe hemorrhagic shock in the out-of-hospital setting. Entitled "Restore Effective Survival in Shock (RESUS)," this trial represents a unique collaboration between scientists and clinicians from the military, academic hospitals, a nonprofit organization and Biopure under the direction of the NMRC.

  Who do you think is the "nonprofit organization" that collaborates with the military and Biopure?

  Any use of Hemopure by JWs is arranged by the WT's HLC and they acquire consent from the FDA through their cooperation with the US Navy. It's the only way that Hemopure can be accessed.
  

  Hemopure has had a LOT of problems over the course of its development and getting approval from the FDA to run trials is only one of them. The US Navy has been frustrated at several turns trying to get Hemopure approved and have been turned down in their attempts to design a trial that uses JW patients (see an earlier thread about this...someplace on this forum).

  I don't think it is too difficult to guess who the patients are in this quote:

  One of the internal report’s co-authors told The Globe that the FDA’s safety concerns aren’t valid, because the patients tested with Hemopure in the proposed trial would likely die anyway.

  That is an expression that has been repeated many times when dealing with JW patients who refuse blood - "the patient will die anyway".

  Dying JW patients are valuable to the US Navy.*

  *JWs make for an excellent control group for the US Navy. They don't smoke and they don't serve in the military. Nice clean sample to use.
  
  
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  36

  Blood Issue.......something for thought, where is the logic.

  by CovertsadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have yet to read about the contradictions in the jw teachings on blood, but i have personally witnessed one.

  i am a medical professional and have seen hemopure administered for an active jw who did refuse a blood transfusion.

  its not fda approved here, but given in special life saving circumstances.

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  OrphanCrow

  Millie:

  So what is it about "polymerizing" that makes the red blood cell no longer intact?

  I am trying to understand how the Org justifies and reasons on this.

  Never mind the polymerizing, how does the Org justify that the blood (from cows and humans) has been stored and then processed? What about the scripture that says that blood is to be poured on the ground?

  That is the part I can't wrap my head around.

  The Org prohibits the storage of a person's own blood based on that notion, yet they will approve human blood that has been stored, and animal blood that has been stored.

  Like I said, the blood ban is ridiculous. It isn't a ban based on scripture at all.
• 
  36

  Blood Issue.......something for thought, where is the logic.

  by CovertsadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have yet to read about the contradictions in the jw teachings on blood, but i have personally witnessed one.

  i am a medical professional and have seen hemopure administered for an active jw who did refuse a blood transfusion.

  its not fda approved here, but given in special life saving circumstances.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  OrphanCrow

  CovertSadJW: So.....bovine hemoglobin is okay? , but human is not ? Where is the logic in that?

  The logic is WT logic. And it has to do with money.

  The WT's HIS direct JW patients into clinical trials for blood substitutes. And, when the trials are halted, and that blood product is sitting in "unapproved" status, the JWs come in handy in keeping that product in production as a "compassionate use" drug. "Refusal of blood for religious reasons" is the catch phrase that keeps Hemopure on the market. The JW patient is quite valuable to the companies that develop blood alternatives.

  JWs have been guinea pigs for products such as Fluosol-Da and Hemopure, etc

  By the way, did you know that Hemopure is basically the same as Oxygent, the blood substitute that has been approved for veterinarian use? The JW patient gets blood that is used for dogs. The JW patient is the next step up from animal testing.
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  36

  Blood Issue.......something for thought, where is the logic.

  by CovertsadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have yet to read about the contradictions in the jw teachings on blood, but i have personally witnessed one.

  i am a medical professional and have seen hemopure administered for an active jw who did refuse a blood transfusion.

  its not fda approved here, but given in special life saving circumstances.

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  OrphanCrow

  sparrow: Seems ironic that bovine hemoglobin would be acceptable in life saving circumstances and JWs refer to themselves as "sheep."

  What else is ironic is that the OT scripture they always pull out to defend the WT's blood phobia specifically is about animal blood. And yet that is exactly what the WT has approved for JWs to have transfused - animal blood.

  The so-called "blood ban" is ridiculous. Beyond ridiculous. All parts of blood is WT "approved" - the WT decides when blood can be used and what part of the blood is used. The JW patient just follows the herd and signs on the dotted line.

  It isn't a blood ban. It is a blood phobia that is tightly controlled and administered by the WT's Hospital Information Services.

  *you are welcome, TD. Yeah...memory is a bugger sometimes
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  15

  WTBTS – assistance following an incident at bethel

  by Tallon in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i haven’t posted for quite a while as i needed a break – although i have been lurking.. can anyone confirm if the wtbts give assistance to someone who has been involved in an incident whilst working at bethel and, as a result, must leave?.

  the reason i’m asking is that, back in the 80’s, i knew a sister who was in bethel service.

  she was assigned to the cleaning department.

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  OrphanCrow

  There was a woman who sued the WTS back in the early 2000s because of an injury she had while working at Bethel.

  http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/boroughs/jehovah-loses-comp-case-church-forced-pay-millions-article-1.611540
  

  A 46-YEAR-OLD WOMAN who devoted her life to the Jehovah's Witnesses said she was forced to move from their Brooklyn compound after she was seriously injured while serving the church. But a judge's ruling this week that she is entitled to worker's compensation payments could end up costing the church millions of dollars. Brenda Upton and her husband, Michael, took a vow of poverty and moved to the Witnesses' Brooklyn headquarters in 1998 to work as chiropractors for other church members. She injured her spine while running to catch a bus at an upstate church compound later that year. "They take wonderful care of you up to a point, and then you're on your own," Upton said. "That's why we wound up going to court.
  " She said she suffered debilitating nerve injuries that have left her barely able to carry a laundry basket. The church took care of her medical care until 2001, when she and her husband were asked to leave and were given a $79,000 stipend. But Workers' Compensation Law Judge Stephen Goldstein ruled Wednesday that Upton is entitled to $400 a week in workers' compensation payments. "I'm finding they were not religious volunteers," Goldstein said. "They were engaged, particularly Dr. Brenda Upton, in a number of work-like activities.
  " The Witnesses vowed to appeal the ruling, saying Upton and the other 5,800 Witnesses who live and work in the church's New York operations are volunteers, not employees. But if the decision stands, the Witnesses - and other religious organizations - could potentially face millions of dollars in workers' compensation insurance premiums and payments, said church lawyer John Miller. "It'll pretty much put religious orders out of business," Miller said. "It would certainly impact whether we would ever want to continue operations" in New York. The church owns about 40 properties in downtown Brooklyn and has plans to build a huge new structure on a vacant lot. Miller would not speculate how the workers' compensation case would affect those plans. "We don't have a spiritual conflict," said Upton, who has moved with her husband to Washington State. "Our problem all along has been medical-legal. We are still active Jehovah's Witnesses.

  I haven't been able to find out how that all turned out, but there is a thread on this forum that discusses the case:

  (22 pages!!...I haven't read them all)

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/105169/real-big-news-wts-sued-biggie-worker-compensation

  And then there is Spain. When the WTS was told that they had to pay pensions for the volunteer Bethel workers in Spain, the WTS just up and moved the printing to Germany.

  http://www.anthonymathenia.com/spanish-jws-upset-over-bethel-move/
• 
  36

  Blood Issue.......something for thought, where is the logic.

  by CovertsadJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have yet to read about the contradictions in the jw teachings on blood, but i have personally witnessed one.

  i am a medical professional and have seen hemopure administered for an active jw who did refuse a blood transfusion.

  its not fda approved here, but given in special life saving circumstances.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  OrphanCrow

  TD: one of the Hb based substitutes in competition with Hemopure and Polyheme was in fact made from donated human blood whose shelf life had expired. (Hemassist by Baxter Laboratories)

  You are correct that Hemassist was made from expired human blood, but so was Polyheme (made by Northfield labs). Polyheme has also been used on JW patients.

  Hemassist clinical trials, in the late 90s, were halted when the subjects died at a much greater rate than those who didn't receive it.

  In fact, all the blood "substitutes" that have been tried on JWs have proven to be less effective than blood itself