OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  4

  site will not let me post picture whats up?

  by nowwhat? in

  1. forum
  2. tech-support

  i get the spiral of death for 2 days now.

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  OrphanCrow

  I have had the same thing happen.

  I re-sized my picture files (made them smaller) and didn't have any trouble posting them
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  24

  How registering as a JW in Germany benefits the WT/Org

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in some european countries, "church tax" is levied against members of certain religions.

  how each country handles this differs depending on each country's tax laws.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/church_tax.

  in germany, a member of a religion that has "public law" status pays an additional 8 or 9 percent on their tax assessments.

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  OrphanCrow

  Oh oh...my post didn't load properly. The org's article about Germany is missing.

  I will try to post it again without the quote box (no link, it can be found at the org website)

  The following is a WT/org article:

  "Oct 10, 2017

  After more than 26 years of legal proceedings, Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany obtained the same legal status as that granted to major religions in the country. On January 27, 2017, North Rhine-Westphalia was the last state of the 16 German states to grant public law status to Jehovah’s Witnesses. The decision is significant for the Witnesses because even though they have been present in Germany for well over 100 years, their national headquarters and the thousands of congregations in the country were considered independent religious associations. Now that the Witnesses have finally been granted public law status in all German states, they are viewed as a single religious entity and enjoy the benefits that this status provides.

  The Long Struggle to Obtain Public Law Status

  In 1921, Jehovah’s Witnesses were first registered in Germany under private law. After the reunification of Germany in 1990, the Witnesses applied for public law status because of the benefits available to religious organizations that have it.

  In order for a religious association to be registered throughout the country as a public law corporation, the law requires that it first obtain public law status in the German state where it is based. It may then apply for this status in the 15 other German states. In 1990, the religious association Jehovas Zeugen in Deutschland (Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany) first applied to the state of Berlin, where it maintains its legal address. Although most religious organizations seeking public law status obtain it within a short period of time, perhaps within a year or two, the Berlin government refused to grant public law status to Jehovah’s Witnesses for many years. One reason the government cited was that the Witnesses refrain from voting in national elections. However, this argument is not valid, since the law does not require German citizens to vote; to do so is entirely voluntary.

  This issue eventually came before the courts. On March 24, 2005, the Higher Administrative Court in Berlin ruled that Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany must be acknowledged as a “corporation of public law.” Over a year later, the state of Berlin relented and granted public law status to Jehovah’s Witnesses, ending a 16-year legal struggle with the Berlin government.

  Next, the Witnesses applied for public law status in the remaining 15 German states. In 2009, 11 states granted public law status; another 3 states followed in subsequent years; and the last state, North Rhine-Westphalia, granted public law status to Jehovah’s Witnesses on January 27, 2017. The persistent efforts of Jehovah’s Witnesses to obtain the same legal status as that granted to major religions in Germany finally ended after 26 years of legal proceedings.

  The Benefits of Having Public Law Status

  The national headquarters and the more than 2,000 congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany now function under a single corporate structure. In the past, because each association representing at least one congregation was viewed as an independent religious association, it was subject to state laws requiring the submission of annual reports and tax returns. Adjustments in an association’s structure resulting from an appointment of new elders, purchase of property, or the renaming or merging of congregations had to be reported to the government. In the past these reporting requirements required much effort and time on the part of congregation elders, but now they can focus more fully on the pastoral care of congregation members. The lack of public law status also required congregations to pay fees for the processing of reports. A longtime elder in one congregation commented: “Now we have greater freedom to use donated funds to support the public ministry of congregation members.”

  Without the superior legal status of public law, Jehovah’s Witnesses were not viewed as a mainstream religion, even though some 274,000 Witnesses and their associates were attending their meetings in Germany. Armin Pikl, an attorney for the national headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany, observed: “During the more than 26 years of legal efforts to obtain the status as a corporation of public law, the media published hundreds of untrue and defamatory statements about our religion, sometimes almost weekly. Now the flood of untrue and defamatory statements has subsided.” Werner Rudtke, a longtime Witness, stated: “Since a religious association that wants to become a public law corporation must be law-abiding in every way, many false allegations against the Witnesses can be refuted.” Another Witness, named Petra, mentioned the past challenges facing schoolchildren. She said: “This kind of recognition is very helpful for children in school. Until now it has been the tendency of teachers to discriminate against Witness students as a result of the false allegation that they belonged to a ‘sect’ rather than to a religion.”

  Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany are grateful that their sincere religious activity has been recognized by the government as qualifying for public law status. They hope that such recognition will alleviate some of their past challenges and will benefit them as individuals and as a religious community."

  (you are welcome, Alex)
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  24

  How registering as a JW in Germany benefits the WT/Org

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in some european countries, "church tax" is levied against members of certain religions.

  how each country handles this differs depending on each country's tax laws.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/church_tax.

  in germany, a member of a religion that has "public law" status pays an additional 8 or 9 percent on their tax assessments.

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  OrphanCrow

  In some European countries, "church tax" is levied against members of certain religions. How each country handles this differs depending on each country's tax laws.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax
  

  In Germany, a member of a religion that has "public law" status pays an additional 8 or 9 percent on their tax assessments. How this tax is collected is one of two ways: the government can collect the tax from each member and then disburse it to the religion they belong to or, the church/religion can collect the tax themselves directly from the membership.

  In Germany, on the basis of tax regulations passed by the religious communities and within the limits set by state laws, communities may either require the taxation authorities of the state to collect the fees from the members on the basis of income tax assessment (then, the authorities withhold a collection fee), or choose to collect the church tax themselves.

  
  In the first case, membership in the religious community is stored in a database at the Federal Tax Office which employers receive excerpts of for the purpose of withholding tax on paid income. If an employee's data indicate membership in a tax-collecting religious community, the employer must withhold church tax prepayments from their income in addition to other tax prepayments. In connection with the final annual income tax assessment, the state revenue authorities also finally assess the church tax owed. In the case of self-employed persons or of unemployed taxpayers, state revenue authorities collect prepayments on the church tax together with prepayments on the income tax.

  
  If, however, religious communities choose to collect church tax themselves, they may demand that the tax authorities reveal taxation data of their members to calculate the contributions and prepayments owed. In particular, some smaller communities (e.g. the Jewish Community of Berlin) choose to collect taxes themselves to save collection fees the government would charge otherwise.

  
  The church tax is only paid by members of the respective church. People who are not members of a church tax-collecting denomination do not have to pay it. Members of a religious community under public law may formally declare their wish to leave the community to state (not religious) authorities. The obligation to pay church taxes ends once such a declaration has been made. Some communities refuse to administer marriages and burials of (former) members who had declared to leave it.

  So, based on the above information, once a person declares themselves a JW by signing that "consent form" (which is the concern of many right now because of the privacy laws coming into effect on data storing), their personal information about their job and finances that is submitted to the government, become accessible to the WT/Org (if the org chooses to collect the tax themselves). And, their affiliation with the JWs also is revealed to their employers.

  Once a person is no longer a JW, and want to opt out of the church tax, they have to report that to state authorities, not to the religious authorities.

  In Germany, the JWs have public law status which means that the above tax laws apply to them - the org can now collect taxes from their membership and they can access the tax records of all the JWs that have registered with them as members.

  Predictably, this information has not been given to the JWs themselves and the org's write up about gaining public law status in Germany does not reveal how public law status gives the org the power to collect taxes and gain access to information about its members income. This is how the granting of public law status in Germany was written up for the org's website:

  Oct 10, 2017

  
  The Long Struggle to Obtain Public Law Status

  
  The Benefits of Having Public Law Status

  What are the real benefits of gaining public law status in Germany? The org can collect tax and not only that, they can access confidential income information on their members.

  Does the org's article include that in the "benefits"? Of course not - 26 years of legal struggle is re-framed as a fight for religious freedom.

  Just sign on the dotted line...give consent for the org to keep records on you and, in Germany, the org can access your income tax records.
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  8

  JW babies don't always get blood transfusions

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  it is a common misconception that a jw baby who requires a blood transfusion will get one through a court order.

  this does not always happen.. the following study demonstrates how a jw baby is vulnerable to being used for experimental procedures.. sn-mesoporphyrin interdiction of severe hyperbilirubinemia in jehovah's witness newborns as an alternative to exchange transfusion.. the condition that these two jw babies had was hyperbilirubinemia (jaundice).

  in both cases, the parents refused to give permission for their babies to receive an exchange transfusion after the standard treatment of phototherapy didn't work.

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  OrphanCrow

  Bobcat: Hi OrphanCrow,
  I hope you don't think I was being facetious

  Oh, not at all. I thought your response was natural and normal. It is how we all would respond - "Were the babies ok?"

  It is ironic in a sick sort of way - when Infacare was promoting their product in later years, they would use the clinical trials from studies done on the general population, where the drug stannsoporfin was used as preventive and as an adjunct to phototherapy, as support for a much needed drug (it has helped lots of babies and hopefully will continue to save lives), and then they would present their "poster babies" - six JW babies who "avoided brain damage" by using this drug off label.

  Whenever I read a media blurb about those six babies, I can't help but be reminded of the WT's poster children they have used over the years that have died as martyrs for the org's blood phobia.

  And I wonder how many JW babies and children the medical world could plaster on the front pages of their "martyr list" - the ones who die and never make it into medical journals
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  8

  JW babies don't always get blood transfusions

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  it is a common misconception that a jw baby who requires a blood transfusion will get one through a court order.

  this does not always happen.. the following study demonstrates how a jw baby is vulnerable to being used for experimental procedures.. sn-mesoporphyrin interdiction of severe hyperbilirubinemia in jehovah's witness newborns as an alternative to exchange transfusion.. the condition that these two jw babies had was hyperbilirubinemia (jaundice).

  in both cases, the parents refused to give permission for their babies to receive an exchange transfusion after the standard treatment of phototherapy didn't work.

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  OrphanCrow

  Bobcat: I'm glad it turned out well in their case.

  Yes, both JW babies survived.

  We wouldn't be reading about it if they hadn't - babies who die receiving experimental procedures/drugs usually don't make it into medical journals. We don't know if there were other babies that didn't survive previous to (or after) these two babies' treatment.

  And of course we are all glad that the babies lived - that is exactly the basic human emotion that is played on when these cases occur. Not only is an infant being exploited, the parents are exploited. It is not difficult to convince JW parents to let their babies be used as guinea pigs. They are convinced that they are doing the right thing by denying blood for their baby and they will agree to anything that is proposed as an "alternative" treatment. Anything at all.

  It is incredibly easy to get parental consent from JW parents for anything but a blood transfusion, even if the risks for the alternative procedure/drug far exceed the risks of a blood transfusion.

  Dio: Yes. Even babies. They had probably been waiting for this opportunity.

  Absolutely. Treating these JW babies with this drug didn't just pop up out of the blue.

  It is a fairly complicated procedure to follow just to access the drug that was used in the above cases. At the time, the drug was being produced by Rochelle, a pharma company. This treatment would be off label. And then, note how quickly an independent company was started to promote the drug, and then how, once the clinical trial was completed on JW babies, the company Infacare was bought up by a much larger company.

  I have only scratched the surface on the company, Mallinckrodt, that now owns Infacare, but... and this could be coincidental of course, seeing as Mallinckrodt is pretty large...but, it wasn't too difficult to turn up some JWs that are connected to, or work for, Mallinckrodt. Jus' sayin'...

  "compassionate"my ass

  Exactly.

  That would be like saying that you were being compassionate by throwing out a life preserver to somebody that you had pushed overboard
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  17

  They've given themselves a out for refusing to give you your data if you ask for it

  by purrpurr in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  from the jw.org global data page.

  "upon receipt of your written request, after you provide sufficient evidence of your identity and enough information to permit us to identify your personal data, the applicable data controller will fairly consider granting the request by balancing the interests of the individual in gaining access to data or correcting or deleting data against the legitimate interests of the organization, including whether granting the request would endanger the organization’s right to religious freedom and practice.

  we will also notify any third-party recipients of the necessary changes.. please note that your data may not be erased if processing is required by law or if the data may be kept on other legal bases.

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  OrphanCrow

  HalfBanana: what more do they want?

  Possibly the information leading to harvesting the estates of members and ex members who die intestate?
  

  A bit more about European church tax

  I don't know if 'they' want to or not, but....

  In Germany, the Org has the legal right to demand, from the government, the income tax returns of its members (if the org declares itself as collecting its own tax rather than going through the government to levy tax on its members)

  If a person declares themselves as a member of the Org, they give up their right to keep their income confidential from the Org

  No secrets in Germany - register with the Org as a JW and your income tax returns become accessible to the Org

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Germany#The_right_to_collect_church_tax
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  17

  They've given themselves a out for refusing to give you your data if you ask for it

  by purrpurr in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  from the jw.org global data page.

  "upon receipt of your written request, after you provide sufficient evidence of your identity and enough information to permit us to identify your personal data, the applicable data controller will fairly consider granting the request by balancing the interests of the individual in gaining access to data or correcting or deleting data against the legitimate interests of the organization, including whether granting the request would endanger the organization’s right to religious freedom and practice.

  we will also notify any third-party recipients of the necessary changes.. please note that your data may not be erased if processing is required by law or if the data may be kept on other legal bases.

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  OrphanCrow

  HalfBanana: what more do they want?

  Well, in some European countries, churches can collect a tax from its membership:

  http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/22/in-some-european-countries-church-membership-means-paying-more-taxes/
  

  I think the way it works in some countries is that registered members of churches pay extra tax to the government and that in turn is disbursed to the churches/religions

  In parts of Europe, it seems to be advantageous to the org to have registered members - the more registered members they can show, the more government disbursement they are entitled to
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  17

  They've given themselves a out for refusing to give you your data if you ask for it

  by purrpurr in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  from the jw.org global data page.

  "upon receipt of your written request, after you provide sufficient evidence of your identity and enough information to permit us to identify your personal data, the applicable data controller will fairly consider granting the request by balancing the interests of the individual in gaining access to data or correcting or deleting data against the legitimate interests of the organization, including whether granting the request would endanger the organization’s right to religious freedom and practice.

  we will also notify any third-party recipients of the necessary changes.. please note that your data may not be erased if processing is required by law or if the data may be kept on other legal bases.

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  OrphanCrow

  Incognito: As there is no bible precedent for keeping records on fellow Christian's, WT cannot really justify doing so as a religious requirement or practice.

  Actually, WT has found Biblical justification for record keeping on "fellow Christians" in the past.

  In 1941, as a part of the "Children of the King" conventions, 15,000 children (and their parents) were registered. This is how the record keeping was justified on "Biblical" grounds:

  There are many thousands of children that have had the privilege of coming to this convention, and parents are lined up by the thousands registering themselves and their children - something that has never occurred in history since the convention called by King Hezekiah in days of old, and recorded for our comfort.

  https://archive.org/details/1941ReportOfConventionOfJehovahsWitnesses
  
  
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  17

  They've given themselves a out for refusing to give you your data if you ask for it

  by purrpurr in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  from the jw.org global data page.

  "upon receipt of your written request, after you provide sufficient evidence of your identity and enough information to permit us to identify your personal data, the applicable data controller will fairly consider granting the request by balancing the interests of the individual in gaining access to data or correcting or deleting data against the legitimate interests of the organization, including whether granting the request would endanger the organization’s right to religious freedom and practice.

  we will also notify any third-party recipients of the necessary changes.. please note that your data may not be erased if processing is required by law or if the data may be kept on other legal bases.

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  OrphanCrow

  For example, the religious organization has an interest in permanently maintaining data regarding an individual’s status as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Deleting such information would unduly infringe on the organization’s religious beliefs and practices.

  This is disturbing

  From what I have read about the new privacy laws around protecting personal data, my understanding is that the individuals' rights come before an organization's rights. I could be wrong about this, but the general thrust surrounding the discourse about these data protection laws was that it gave power to the person

  This statement on the org's position clearly places the org's rights over the person's rights

  Disturbing (the more I read that last sentence, the more it doesn't make sense)*

  Maybe I need to go do some more reading...

  * I think I got it. I couldn't figure out what "religious practice" could be threatened by deleting member information. I think they mean "disfellowshipping" as a religious practice. Being that it would be essential to keep records on who was good and who was bad. How can they shun if they don't know who to shun? I guess they are the keepers of the book of life
  
  
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  14

  WT rules about forgiving a cheating spouse

  by Addison0998 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone else think it’s weird and controlling the organization says if your mate commits adultry, and then you have sex with them, you are not free to remarry again, since this means you forgave them.

  the bible never mentions anything about this.

  it’s so weird they have a say about what goes on behind closed doors of two people who are still legally married.

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  OrphanCrow

  Hate?

  That is a ridiculous conclusion