OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

• 
  31

  All the culty name that were used instead of JWs

  by kairos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the truththe society.

  the friends...you remember.

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  OrphanCrow

  My mother showed her age the last time I talked to her - she used the term "the brethren"
• 
  36

  Faders Needing a Great One Liner

  by Solzhenitsyn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so our family fade is well under way.

  we changed congregations as regular attenders and left in good standing with those giving hugs and kisses simply knowing we "needed a change".

  we moved to a neighboring congregation that is out of our original region knowing we would see no one and the two boe's wouldn't really have immediate dealings.

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  OrphanCrow

  Tell them that you are having a wee bit of financial difficulty and by the way..."can you help us out?"

  They will run away so fast you won't even see the dust

  If that doesn't work...a casual mention of recent quarantine might..."yeah...can't get much done when the wifey and kids had a highly communicable disease...not sure if it is safe yet"

  Sorry, can't help with your goal of making them think. That could be an impossible task
• 
  19

  Serious Problems Between Elders

  by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ever encountered or eyewitnessed problems escalating, arguements and rows between elders right at the kh anyone?.

  one such experience was just before the meeting was about to start,we heard raised voices from the second room between two elders.

  a minute later two other elders went into the room and we could all hear that they were trying to cool the situation down with whatever was going on in there.

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  OrphanCrow

  Amelia: ...they committed fraud while living in Spain.

  You might find their names on this page:

  http://jwemployees.bravehost.com/NewsReports/2054.html

  
  
• 
  19

  Blood Components Hypocrsy

  by pandorasbox1914 in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  we all know the watchtower's stance on blood:.

  blood components, plasma, red cells, white cells and platelets-no.

  fractions-your bible trained conscience.

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  OrphanCrow

  Rattigan, where are you getting your information from?
• 
  19

  Serious Problems Between Elders

  by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ever encountered or eyewitnessed problems escalating, arguements and rows between elders right at the kh anyone?.

  one such experience was just before the meeting was about to start,we heard raised voices from the second room between two elders.

  a minute later two other elders went into the room and we could all hear that they were trying to cool the situation down with whatever was going on in there.

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  OrphanCrow

  Giordano: I've sat on a number of voluntary boards usually for the communities I've lived in and or worked for. Because we are volunteers we are encouraged to speak our minds...... share our experience and contribute to the greater good.
  The same ego's emerged, the wanna be's, the unenlightened, the ignorant most often concerned with petty issues.
  Sometimes it's frustrating.....but most times it works out and good things emerge.

  Me too. I have sat on a lot of boards in the past. However, none of the board meetings ended up with swinging fists, shouting, or loud prayers being said to silence dissenters. None of the board meetings that I have been involved with came even close to what has been described here. Mind you, most meetings had clear rules on behavior - Roberts Rules of Order prevailed. Always.

  When I was a JW before the elder arrangement we depended on a Presiding Minister, the Assn't Presiding minister and a third person who, if I remember correctly. was the Bible Study Servant who also conducted the Sunday Watchtower study.

  I was around when that system was in place. It seemed like the presiding minister was always the JW male who gave the most $$$ to "the Society". Every congregation around was set up like that. The big poobah was the most wealthy.

  I left on the cusp of the elder arrangement being implemented. It was so weird - up until that time the lack of elders was bragged about - only "christendom" had such an archaic set-up. The JWs were so proud of being different. Sort of along the same lines of..."oh, but we are not a religion! we are just people who join together to study the bibble"
• 
  21

  Have you seen these drawings against medical procedures?

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  these come from the golden age of june 8, 1932:.

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  OrphanCrow

  dropoffyourkeylee: The blood doctrine came out of the same minds that placed those images in the Golden Age.

  You are absolutely right, dropoff. The blood doctrine is based on a phobia, not a bibblical doctrine. A phobia of contamination, not based on rational thought. An inherent bias towards the "unclean". A striving towards perfection. By a group of people who believed they were the elite - the chosen ones of God.

  vidiot: Orphancrow's done a bit of digging, and has found hints of racism in the prohibition's origins, too...
  ...i.e. some of the old-school WT rule-writers were uncomfy about the possibility of getting transfused with "negro" or "oriental" blood.
  Shocker, I know.
  

  Oh. Okay...can't remember the reference for that one, but probably correct. I do know that in the early days of blood transfusions there were a lot of erroneous beliefs around the practice. Especially considering the political /religious ideologies prevalent in the 30s/40s, at a time that blood transfusion technology grew in leaps and bounds in certain cultures. And in other cultures, phobias and bias held them back, developing "alternative" practices instead. Anything to avoid contamination of the blood. The WTS' ideology of elitism embraced the blood phobia position - don't contaminate those who have "special blood"!
• 
  21

  Have you seen these drawings against medical procedures?

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  these come from the golden age of june 8, 1932:.

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  OrphanCrow

  ILoveTTATT: Definitely antivaxxer. They had that position officially from 1931 to 1952.

  I am not sure what you mean about "official" position, ILove. The WT's anti-vax position was evident long before 1931.

  For as long as vaccinations have been around, anti-vaxxers were present and the WTS was no exception.
  

  The Golden Age magazine, launched in 1919, gave the WTS a platform to disseminate the medical views of fringe/quasi medical practitioners. The WTS (via the Golden Age) took an anti-vax stance from almost the beginning of the Golden Age being published.

  I took some time to skim through the old Golden Age issues with the goal of just posting a few mentions of their anti-vax stance, but once I started, I realized there was far more than just a few anti-vax articles.

  This will be lengthy....

  The first mention of vaccinations in the Golden Age was in the April 27, 1921 issue with the article How Vaccines Work - G. del Pino, Glasgow. This was a pro-vaccine article and it ended with this statement:

  It may be assumed that the success which has
  so far been achieved from the use of these detoxicated
  vaccines represents only the beginning
  of the ultimate possibilities of the- immunizing
  agents in the prevention and cure of
  disease.

  That article inspired a flurry of responses in 1921, both pro and against vaccines. The Golden Age first entertained discourse/debate concerning this controversial subject but, after 1922, would only print anti-vax articles.

  Sept 14, 1921

  Effectiveness of Vaccines by H A Rutschow DC*

  * doctor of chiropractic

  Vaccination is supposed to make the vaccinated
  immune to some certain disease, or at least
  to allow it to appear in a mild form. The
  big question is, Does it really do this? This
  ' question is a vital one to us and to the future
  welfare of the human family and judging from
  its past the answer is an emphatic NO.

  October 12, 1921

  The Vaccination Infamy by A M Wilton MD

  - anti-vax article - against compulsory vaccination

  Doctor Favors Vaccination - by "Doctor"

  - correction of inaccurate information in previous article

  Science by the Unscientific - L W Putman MD

  - another correction of information concerning vaccinations

  A Living Death - J J Winzel

  - personal testimony about the evils of vaccination

  Against Vaccination - W M Pugh

  Cured by Serums - Mrs Mary E Burnet

  Vaccine Therapy a Success - A Murray MD

  Vaccination a Failure - Mrs R Walter Maygrove

  Feb 15, 1922

  Facts About Vaccinations - G del Pino

  - pro-vaccine. This is the last time that the Golden Age printed a pro-vaccine article

  * there are 3 or 4 mentions in other 1922 articles about health that are anti-vax statements

  Jan 3,1923

  The Vaccination Fraud - Mrs. Andrew J Holmes

  Jan 17 1923

  Animal and Human Vivisection

  

  

  Is Vaccination Inhuman? - Walter F Moser

  - anti-vax article

  Nov 7, 1923

  More Serum Squirting (no author)

  July 30,1924

  Facts and Figures on Medical Ignorance - Isaac L Peebles MD

  - anti-vax, anti-institutional doctors

  -Peebels was an "alternative" doctor (as all WTS doctors were) and came out as anti-AMA

  October 8, 1924 - letter to editor

  Pittsburgh Fighting Vaccination

  The War Against Vaccination in Pennsylvania - Geo F Herde
  

  Vaccination in Czecho-Slovakia (reprinted from the London Daily News)

  January 28, 1925

  A Joint Declaration of Medical Liberty Rights - by Doctors H M Shelton and B Stanford Claunch

  - this is Shelton's first appearance in the Golden Age pages. His treatments and philosophies can be found in later issues, including the images that were posted in the OP

  March 11, 1925

  What You do When You Vaccinate - F P Millard DO

  To have a vaccination scar is a reflection
  on the intelligence. A scar following a
  solicited vaccination signifies loyalty to medical
  superstition. A scar from forced vaccination
  is a brand, a mark of medical tyranny and des
  potism. I would not be vaccinated and take the
  risk of complications for a $10,000 draft on the
  Bank of England. My children have never been
  vaccinated, and I trust never will be. It is up to
  the mothers of the land to take a determined
  stand, and they should quickly end the compulsory
  vaccination of children. Without compulsion,
  the hideous practice would soon disappear

  April 8, 1925

  When Vaccinations Do Not Take

  

  Sept 8, 1926

  The Power of Medical Superstition - G R Clements

  May 18, 1927

  
  

  August 10, 1927

  
  

  August 24, 1927

  What Doctors and Lawyers Think of Vaccination (contributed)

  - anti vax rant with various docs and lawyers quoted

  January 11, 1928

  A Brief Lesson in Vaccination -

  

  

  

  April 4, 1928

  

  May 2 1928

  
  

  Nov 28, 1928

  Some Thoughts and Question on Epidemics - Dr B H Jones

  - anti-germ theory article and, of course, anti-vax

  July 25, 1928

  An Unvaccinated Authority on Smallpox - G W Emery

  Feb 6, 1929
  

  If the People Ever Wake Up (Peacock court case)

  Apr 3, 1929

  How Diptheria Antitoxin is Made - Dr George R Clements, editor of How to Live

  May 1, 1929

  Death by the Serum Route - Herbert M Shelton (the fella who contributed those "cartoons" in the OP)

  Vaccination - Dr H R Richards

  July 24, 1929

  Taxes, Vaccination and Inoculation - Dr G R Clements, editor How to Live

  Sept 18, 1929

  
  

  Nov 27, 1929

  Vaccination in New Hampshire

  - an article about Albert W Peacock's fight against vax - 6 months jail for refusing to have child vaccinated

  an item from article:

  
  

  April 2 1930

  Some Facts About Vaccination - "The facts in this article are taken from The Facts Against Compulsory Vaccination ($1.00), by H. B. Anderson, published by Citizens Medical Reference Bureau, 1860 Broadway, New York, N. Y."

  August 6, 1930

  Serumization by the State

  Sept 17, 1930

  Bedbugs and Smallpox

  
  

  Oct 1, 1930

  

  Oct 15, 1930
  

  Massachusetts Doctors to Assist God

  

  I am sure I missed several references to the evils of vaccinations, in the Golden Age, leading up to "the official position" of the WTS banning vaccinations from 1931 to 1952 . But, it is clear that the WTS was anti-vax all along. The position that they were most concerned with was anything that stood in defiance of the American Medical Association (founded in the 1840s). Many of the Bible Students were practitioners of alternative medical practice - the chiros, osteopaths, naturopaths, etc. were all fighting for legal recognition and the right to practice their brand of medicine and these were the ones who took an anti-vax stance.

  As a matter of interest...I am one of the non-vaccinated. If the WTS had lifted their vaccination ban before I was born, that info didn't make it out to rural Canada by the time of my birth and childhood in the late 50s/60s.
• 
  8

  Charlie Russell, A Zionist Hero

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was rather surprised today as i explored some archaeological news for my macquarie asian history fb page, to be suddenly confronted with this heading in the israeli haaretz media site.. before herzl, there was pastor russell: a neglected chapter of zionism.

  years before theodor herzl proposed creating a jewish state, charles taze russell was traveling the world holding jewish mass meetings, beginning in 1879, at which he urged jews to find a national home in eretz israel.

  ... and this quote from charlie's zion's watchtower (p. 329, 1892: .

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  OrphanCrow

  sparky: For the sake of historical accuracy, J.F. Rutherford was also a Zionist until he turned his attention to the promulgation of the idea of an earthly 'Great Multitude'. He was the author of the publication COMFORT FOR THE JEWS written in 1925 and expanded on Russell's Zionist theology.

  No, Rutherford did not "expand" on Russell's dual covenant doctrine in Comfort for the Jews.

  Rutherford came out in direct opposition to Russell's belief that the Jews had a separate and distinct covenant with God. In that book, published in 1925, Rutherford claimed that the "comfort" being offered the Jews was the message that they could come under the covenant that god offered to the followers of Christ (aka Joe's witnesses) and the Jews who accepted the Messiah.

  This teaching of Rutherford's was what led to deep schisms in the Bible Student movement and subsequently saw the Rutherford faction (who controlled the WTS' printing presses and holdings) come to be known as "Jehovah's witnesses" in 1931. Replacement theology. Laid out in Rutherford's 1925 book Comfort for the Jews.
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  22

  What does 'populist' mean?

  by LoveUniHateExams in

  1. social
  2. current

  so yeah, i've been encountering the word 'populist' quite a bit recently.. e.g.

  trump's a populist president.. what does it mean?.

  does it simply mean popular?.

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  OrphanCrow

  "Populist"

  Historically, it meant "for the common people" as opposed to "for the elite"

  I am encountering the term now too. Except it is in a book about the history of the Russian Revolution and the political factions that occurred in the years leading up to the Bolsheviks taking power. They were not populists, yet there were political groups based on Marxist ideology that did call themselves "populists".
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  8

  Charlie Russell, A Zionist Hero

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was rather surprised today as i explored some archaeological news for my macquarie asian history fb page, to be suddenly confronted with this heading in the israeli haaretz media site.. before herzl, there was pastor russell: a neglected chapter of zionism.

  years before theodor herzl proposed creating a jewish state, charles taze russell was traveling the world holding jewish mass meetings, beginning in 1879, at which he urged jews to find a national home in eretz israel.

  ... and this quote from charlie's zion's watchtower (p. 329, 1892: .

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  OrphanCrow

  This is from the March 31, 1920 Golden Age magazine: