Posts by Billyblobber

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

How would you describe Baltimore and what would be your solution to the challenges they are facing right now? How else do you maintain law and order and provide some basic sense of civilization for a community other than by being tough on the people who terrorize it, don't want to be reasoned with and only respect power?

I linked to an article by David Simon, who was a police reporter in Baltimore, and other sourced accounts in the Baltimore thread. -That- is the description of how Baltimore is, and also why it's a cyclical system that just doesn't work. A mix of forced poverty en-large, a useless drug war, corruption in politics, a police force that allows constant assault, and a suffering inner city populace because of these things.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Billyblobber

I also think it's more racist and unfair to allow this crime to go unchecked and, apologies to the namby pamby folk, but when you're dealing with violent, repeat offenders and people who spit on you etc... then you should get a punch in the face now and again because people are people and the number who can keep their cool when being provoked like that day in day out is close to zero so get real, the claims of "they should be more professional" are hollow and unrealistic to me. How about people be civil in return? How about YOU try to do the job for a week. It's a testament to the professionalism and patience that so few people are shot!

So you're saying that police -should- assault suspected drug dealers and loiterers as part of the process then? IMO, that's seriously messed up. Especially considering the history. The government creates the problem and then they solve it by beating it into submission. Awesome.

If that's where people come from, the kind of opinions stated in these types of threads become a lot more clear.

21

Top Cult Expert Steven Hassan makes statement about Jehovah's Witnesses

by Watchtower-Free in

thought this had to be made.

Billyblobber

Source for quote?

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Billyblobber

tenyearsafter,

While your anecdotes are apreciated; the issue with police anecdotes are that precincts and districts vary so ridiculously widely across the country that the only dualities between them may be the most core facets of the job.

Police in Baltimore were literally trained to beat up kids standing on the corner idling, or beat up suspects in the back of the cars that got "too lippy" with them, because they were trained that their Districts were basically war zones, where the only way to keep those people in check were with threats of more violence. Police on Coronado Island, San Diego basically hand out a few traffic tickets or handle a domestic dispute from time to time. In a mixed area like I grew up in (where city lines shift poverty lines greatly), you see almost the entire range of officer. What an officer in Bloomfield Hills has to deal with is hugely different than one in Warren, which is just 15 miles away.

What is being asked for IS for more of the "bad" police, or bad policies, like were enacted in Baltimore, to be filtered out. A person's personal safety should never be left to the whim of if someone in authority was having a "bad day" that day or not if possible, and there should never be "beat them up when no-one is looking" policies in place for ANY departments. And do away with that whole "code of silence" thing where officers stick up for and cover for each other no matter what as well. That's the kind of stuff that people are trying to change, and those things CAN be changed from an institutional level.

You can't make poor desperate people not do bad things as a whole, because that's human nature, but you CAN try to fix things on an insitutional level so that there aren't so many poor, desperate people. Similarly, some power hungry jerks will always try to gravitate towards positions of authority, such as police, but you can attempt to make it harder for those types of people to run around unchecked once they're there. That's what the main focus really is.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Billyblobber

This whole narrative being endlessly promoted of "all cops bad, all blacks good" is ridiculous.

That's a large bit of hyperbole. The original narrative is specifically a dual one; that there is an institutional problem with how police treat minorities as compared to others in the U.S., and has been for over a century, and, also how police treat citizens in general.

Certain extreme right personalities know this narrative is one that is relatively easy for ANYONE to support (except for the people who worship authority, no matter what), so they re-spin it to create a strawman to shift the argument to a strict "us vs. them" thing that is easier to use to polarize their followers. They shift things like "black lives matter," which is a statement that black lives are not less valuable than others people, into a statement that ONLY black lives matter, and then report it as such to provide an easy strawman argument to argue against. Biased listeners don't even recognize those tpes of strawmen and argumentative tactics, and they repeat the filtered argument as the ACTUAL argument, and bam, the narrative shifts more towards what you are intending.

This is probably less evident for people that don't live in the U.S., as they are typically getting the post-filtered reports as opposed to the original 24-hour news cycled reports blasted in their face constantly BEFORE the personalities get a hold on them and put even more of a spin on them; which would probably explain why people keep getting confused as to your opinions on what's happening here as opposed to the reality of what is happening.

Even in this thread (not to mention the other, related ones), we have people speaking of things filtered through the most extreme right wing personalities, who raise things to a level of fearmongering. To realize how ridiculous some of them are, the LEFT in America would be far, far right in most of Europe.

That's also why the "the truth is in the middle" stance is not really a default when it comes to these cases, no matter how reasonable a stance that can be at other times - normally, the point being argued has already been taken AWAY from the "middle" because it has been filtered through one or the other partisan sides to an extreme that only has a yes or no answer to it.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Billyblobber

Marvin, what you're missing is that, historically, in places like Baltimore and Detroit, the people in the cities DID attempt to leave the city as the jobs moved out to the outskirts, but were not allowed to. This kind of stuff lasted into the 80s. That's the generation living in those places now, and their children (and in some cases, grandchildren). Those communities weren't allowed to "lift themselves up," enforced BY the government in many cases, as those communities were entire city areas, dependent on business infrastructure that left. Right when they started picking themselves up, they were forced back down (businesses/work leaving, for instance, the manufacturing jobs that they moved to certain cities for disappearing or being shipped offshores), and when they tried the same path of escape as other (going to suburban opportunity), they were not allowed to, while those that COULD benefit from it now prospered from having less competition.

Much of this happened in the middle of the 20th century and lasted until around the 90s, which was around the peak of EVERYTHING being gone in those and similar places, opportunity-wise. What you and others are doing is looking at the tail end of this situation, at ta generation who suffered from the brunt of it, and saying "life isn't fair, but they should have come up with a way to fix their own situation, oh well," and then comparing it to people who built themselves up over GENERATIONS after their destitution. It's like asking why South African natives didn't fix themselves and were still poor 20 years after apartheid, and blaming all of their problems on them or saying tough luck, while comparing them to Asian immigrants to California.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Billyblobber

Ferguson and Baltimore have a long history of police abuse and oppression on citizens forced in ghetto enclaves generationally that was inflamed by an event. Did Mark Levin make that distinction in his show (I don't see it from a quick scan) to show why situations like that ignite in the first place? If so, it would show the difference between silly extreme right fearmongering (ie. his statements about Obama being a secret Muslim trying to oppress Christians), and legitimate commentary on events.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Billyblobber

Mark Levin - the same guy that said Obama trashes Christians because he's trying to convert people to the Muslim faith, that Christians are persecuted in this country and faith is a good reason to select a leader, among other things...why would anyone care about his opinion on anything?

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Billyblobber

Basketball and other team sports are good for mental development.

I mean, it's like saying people in poor African or Latin countries should stop playing soccer. Let's take one of the few positive things they have in their life away because they should be spending 100% of the time they have trying (and mostly failing) to escape their hellhole.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

Billyblobber

And, also, the "well it's the parents" thing, that shows that people attempt to only think of the most recent cause in a cause/effect situation. Their parents grew up in the same or even worse situations, so...? It's just a blame-deflection that was touched on earlier - basically, "I am/would be a better parent so my kid wouldn't have to worry about this - I DO have control!" A way of propping oneself up as opposed to empathizing with and trying to figure out ways to help the most people out.

Marvin, the issue is that since no place is perfect, everyone should strive to effect change in whatever situation/country they find themselves in. The U.S. has a lot of good things about it, but it also has a lot of terrible things about it, and a lot of people attempting to make things worse here for a lot of people as well. To affect those things, you start with dialogue (what were doing here) attempting to break down the source of the problem, and then come up with ways or work to enact change from the ground up when it comes to those things.

What we're seeing now is a public consciousness shift on how various things about police departments should change to mean that less people get screwed over (which seem to be disproportionately poor and minority). This is increasing because the voices that were ignored in the 70s through 90s are finally being heard a little bit thanks to the advent of video being everywhere and more activism about those and related subjects.

Just "voting" doesn't solve the issue because things like zoning and gerrymandering makes voting pointless for large swaths of people. Other types of activism would be necessary to create change.