« That’s not a strong argument. »
Perhaps I was not making an argument but stating a reality.
I’m not talking about the odds of lost notebooks happening....I was stating my memory and experience of seeing other JWs take personal notes of unaware householders and discuss them. Probably better that stops don’t you think?
And it should stop because they are Christians - let the world do what the world does via internet, census or whatever....may I suggest a christian would be happy to have the risk to neighbour pointed out and stop their ‘recording’ of very personal details such as availability, marital status and all other sorts of stuff....
Alive!
JoinedPosts by Alive!
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113
EU Court Ruling Against WT on Data-Protection
by cofty intoday's london times reports on the july ruling of the eu court that forces the organisation country to comply with data protection.. the action originated in finland but the ruling will affect every eu country.
the cult tried unsuccessfully to argue that the notes taken by jws in the door-to-door work were personal and not accessed by the congregation.
the court ruled that they are acting under the auspices of the congregation and therefore they must comply with data-protection laws.. keeping lists of do-not-calls also falls under this ruling.. why does the cult always feel that it is above the law?.
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Alive!
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113
EU Court Ruling Against WT on Data-Protection
by cofty intoday's london times reports on the july ruling of the eu court that forces the organisation country to comply with data protection.. the action originated in finland but the ruling will affect every eu country.
the cult tried unsuccessfully to argue that the notes taken by jws in the door-to-door work were personal and not accessed by the congregation.
the court ruled that they are acting under the auspices of the congregation and therefore they must comply with data-protection laws.. keeping lists of do-not-calls also falls under this ruling.. why does the cult always feel that it is above the law?.
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Alive!
The point is that personal records/notes are kept, very personal information are sometimes kept in notebooks, regarding a persons life, circumstances, hours of work etc. Say a particularly detail orientated JW left their HH/study book on a bus, dropped on pavement etc?
I know in the past, very detailed and exposing notes were often kept.....
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25
What would you do or say?
by Butyoucanneverleave ina brother who is not baptized ( so there's still hope for him ) had a sister recently run into him at a store.
show wanted to know if he's going to the kingdom hall.
she asked him to write a letter for her to give to his mother ( who's deceased) in the paradise explaining why he didn't make it.
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Alive!
Hateful thinking and I can imagine a certain type of JW saying this..... and being proud of themselves.
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Why does it affect us so deeply?
by stuckinarut2 ini was having a great chat with a valued friend and fellow forum member today on the phone.. we were discussing how deeply we all get affected by jw interactions - even years after fading or disassociating.. you know what i mean.
those days when we run into jws who we considered to be our close friends.
or "loving shepherds" who don't act kindly.
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Alive!
OneEyedJoe6 hours agoA big part of cult indoctrination is that they force you to integrate the cult into your very identity. That's the point of the constant talk about "make the truth your own" "put on the new personality" "spiritual heritage" etc. Once you're out you will likely become a very different person.
The other effect this constant indoctrination has is that it makes all JWs into very nearly the same person. Certainly when they're in cult mode (i.e. out preaching or when their defenses are up because they've come across a DFed/faded/inactive person - so this covers 90% of the interactions anyone on this forum is going to have with JWs) the variations between them are negligible. This means, too, that when we see a JW in full cult personality, we're essentially looking at our past selves. I think this is the main reason why interactions with JWs affect me so much, I see all the flawed reasoning that I was doing myself that kept me trapped so long and I find myself becoming angry at my former cult self.A great summary.
As a convert, I wanted to ‘put on the new personality’ of Christ.
That personality was very, very attractive and heartwarming to me.
The Watchtower muddies this ongoing transformation with the cardboard cut out figure of the ideal ‘publisher’.
I remember feeling quite disorientated in the first year of indoctrination.
When I have occasional interactions with ‘in’ JWs, the rigid thinking and ‘JW’ verbal phrasing is a stand out.
And yes, it unnerves me a little.
Such apparent sweetness, yet such strangeness - I don’t feel comfortable with witnesses anymore, how can you when you know they walk in ‘mind’ lockstep even when something is very wrong, and fairly pointed out to them.
It can hurt - and it does affect me.
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36
Here is what silly looks like
by Sour Grapes infor shits and grins, i looked at an online sunday meeting a few days ago on youtube.
i was in disbelieve on just how silly everything looks with the watchtower reader reading from his little iphone and the watchtower conductor holding up his iphone to ask the questions.
then the conductor asked the reader to read a bible verse and of course, he reads from his little phone.
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Alive!
Tablets and reading scripture from hand held devices go in the organisations favour...with one page, one scripture at a time in front of you, it’s easier to learn scripture out of context....if that’s all you’ve ever done.
And this is what it will be like for young JW kids growing up....
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Fear of the worldly people.
by StephaneLaliberte inyesterday, i had a conversation with my neighbor during which i explained the greatest reason why i wanted to raise my kids out of the jws: the fear (which translate to hate) jws have for everyone showing no interest in becoming part of their group.
in order for him to quickly relate to what i meant i asked him to imagine, for a moment, he was the biggest racist he has ever known, forced to live in a black neighborhood.
how would you feel?
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Alive!
The JW mind-set is hard to fathom.
They will smile, be delightful company and can generally give the impression of being ‘lovely people’ amongst non-JWs....
Yet, whilst they pleasantly engage and chat in such a friendly way with those who are not JWs ( at family affairs, funerals and weddings etc...infact any occasion where the non-JW gets to mix with JWs) - they are also believing that the non-JW, from baby to old senior, fall outside of God’s Love. That God will angrily annihilate the non-JW today, tomorrow...because they are not a JW.
Instead of finishing field service and happily going off for coffee as a chatty, laughing group....they should be tearing their clothes in grief, that so many are ‘hated’ by God...and so many never are ‘drawn’ to the religion but are apparently worth nothing.
I was at a summer BBQ a few years ago, with a bunch of JW friends, some of their non-JW family were there and a couple of our non-JW...we’d all shared many BBQs together in the holidays.
Everyone knew each other - it was lovely.
its just that the next day, a high proportion of these affectionate companions would go their separate ways to a ‘meeting’ - to hear and repeat the potential destruction of their wicked BBQ friends....people who’d affectionately all been drawn together the night before, with arrangements for further get together in view.....
Such madness.
Such insane divisiveness.
No wonder so many JWs have mental health issues.
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The urban legends we heard as JWs!
by stuckinarut2 inhow often have we heard some sort of sensationalist urban legend as jws?.
here is an example i was told as a kid:.
the experience of a sister who knocked on a door and was greeted by a big fierce looking man- intimidating and mean.
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Alive!
I’ve heard most of these stories in one form or another.....around the western world...seriously.
My husband and I would always keep quiet when the silly story hour started...usually after some brother had had a few wines and was in full swing.....
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Scary Effectiveness of Assembly Videos
by Captain Schmideo2 inwell, i got to see the final day of this years regional convention.and i saw something that disturbs me.. the final, "summing up review" video.
it disturbs me because it was so well done.
(i wish i could remember the title of the song), to the strains of a solo vocalist singing in a fine "irish tenor", we see the actors from the previous videos of the last few days all assembling together in a clearing.
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Alive!
I want to cry. But no tears left.
I’m just so grateful these ‘film’ producers don’t hold me and my faith in the palm of their fear-mongering hands.
IF, and only IF their Armageddon theology ‘could’ be true...they STILL have no, absolutely no idea how it will look.
Yet....An army of sinister shooters running towards a group of parka-clad people standing out in an opening...is this as real as the ancient prophets being resurrected to live in an American mansion in 1925?
I feel gutted to know people who I love allow their eyes and ears to be filled with such menacing delusion and BASELESS but horribly manipulative imagery.
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Wealth, Poverty, and Morality
by SecondRateMind ini am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
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Alive!
At the heart of the OP, it seemed to me there is a sense of dismay regarding the careless attitude of ‘Christians’ with wealth, towards the impoverished.
This situation is notable in the network of Jehovahs witnesses, give their imtensestufy of scripture and regulated worship.
I was as guilty as the next for enjoying over the top financial means.
Somehow, for all my scriptural study, I managed to selfishly enjoy a life of absolute material privilege....whilst not for one minute being ready to lower my financial status to equalise others.
I was ready to to give it all up at ‘Armageddon’ - but looking back, I wasnt ready to ‘give it all’ up a moment before...
I ‘generously’ gave to others, but looking back....it never was at the expense of my own sacrifice, I always had plenty to give.
I was known as a ‘generous’ and not a ‘materialistic’ person....but the truth?
Not proud of it.
But, I didn’t acknowledge that I knew any better, and if I did...I pushed away those uncomfortable feelings.
Thought-provoking OP.
And it’s good to really think about stuff. 👍
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31
Jehovah Misses Me
by Phoebe inmade the mistake of opening the front door today...i was expecting someone to service our central heating...oh dear, it was a sister instead :(.
she tells me jehovah misses me.
it seems god only sees me if i go to the meetings.
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Alive!
Hi Phoebe,
It’s frustrating, but worse still...it’s somewhat threatening in its nature, this whole ‘Jehovah misses you’ ‘ She left Jehovah’ ....and so on.
I had a sister greet me in a public shopping mall a couple of years ago...after a quick and cheerful exchange...she then got close up and asked me ‘when are you coming back to Jehovah?’
I kind of gasped inside, that question, if you are a believer is huge in its implications.
And there we are, having just swapped some jolly and friendly greetings...news about our families...and she actually asked me this question as if it were as normal as asking if I’d got over the flu and was I going to feel better soon...
When you’ve had time to stand back, And really listen.....it’s pretty darn sad.
No thought for my feelings, as to whether it was OK to ask such an emotion packed question in such a silly way....in the middle of a shopping mall....
She’s a dear woman.
But, I confess I lost a little respect for her at that time, then I rethought it....she is caught in a cycle of thinking not of her own.
And I just don’t see God the way she does.
I just don’t.