my sister said she heard several "mis truths" or dare we say, "lies" said by the brothers on the stand during the royal commission.. 1) vin toole lied when asked about the expression "theocratic warfare".
he said he was unaware of the term.
2) terry obrien lied when asked whether witnesses are free to research the organisation or free to leave without any negative consequences.. 3) geoff jackson lied when he said that the organisation doesn't run a 'police state' and doesn't criticise those who want to leave.
Watching Geoffrey Jackson and other 'gifts in men' made me feel sick with shame.
They are so absorbed in a culture of twisting the truth, I doubt if they even realise exactly how they come across.
When Geoff Jackson avoided speaking the truth several times - I felt sick.
As for the one who said he wasn't aware of 'theocratic warfare' - I wonder what his God' thinks of that reply.
The dodging and ducking ....imagine behaving that way on a JC.
i believe anyone who has voluntarily left a cult has shown they can adapt to new solutions, and have used " critical thinking" skills otherwise most would not have left.. yet i believe a safe place for support is still needed and this safe place i believe is searched for.. now i may not measure up to much in ways of education, but for me personally " critical thinking skills" = " new" a " new" way of thinking, that takes time for me the individual to be visual and to contemplate.
and the more i read about " critical thinking," the more convinced i am that i can live with the ridicule of those that claim i do not possess it.
furthermore i would say those that criticise others " critical thinking skills," often luck the sensibility and thoughts to snore, spit, and fart....nor would they understand a room full of tobacco smoke and cheap booze...where " critical thinking " can often be found in its most profound, in the most sensitive poems and "pictures" that were ever drawn.
Millie,
Would love to know you in real life.
What a journey this is.
Love reading you.
Cheers
'Alive'
do you ever wonder why out of all the witnesses, you are the one that woke up?
i wonder many times why me.
i know many men and women that are much, much better persons than me; either they are much smarter, more humble, kinder, more successful, or just better persons all around.
I was always in the 'why me?' camp when I was a Witness.
Not born in.....the internal emotional turmoil was huge as I was 'studying'.
It took courage to 'join up' as I knew I'd be ridiculed by friends, family etc.
I believed that one day they'd see the truth too. I guess I should have listened to my inner concerns - the strange 'suit and tie' culture, no beards and how some of the witnesses had the most odd speech patterns and gestures ( I now recognise that as cult language)
I remember watching a husband and wife launch into an answer after I'd posed a question whilst studying - I retorted that they sounded like IBM salesmen.
A poster talked on this thread about the goodwill vibe, amateur people only desiring a wonderful new world - now we see a business corporation interested in stats and real estate.
Having seen the GB in the flesh via JW TV, my heart didn't lift up and I didn't feel compelled to say 'God is truly among you people'.
I actually felt sick. The slickness, false humility - if I can't trust my instincts, if I can't take note of the cold chill and hair raising on the back of my neck - what am I left with?
The killer for me is the boast 'we have the truth' - truth doesn't seek to deceive, deliberately misquote other humans, manipulate and coerce.
hi all :) been a looooong time since i've been around.
anyways, i was wondering if the kingdom hall reno/upgrade scam is going on in australia as well?
the hall where i live apparently needs a complete gut and redo (admittedly the decor was horrid).
The further you stand back - the more you see it for what it is.
The obsession with real estate is the catch.
In this the urgent time of the end?
Don't people matter more then bricks and land?
When I needed real pastoral care ( and many others) - the BOE were too busy doing JCs and building project management.
We know this isn't an isolated and local case - you've all experienced it.
hi all :) been a looooong time since i've been around.
anyways, i was wondering if the kingdom hall reno/upgrade scam is going on in australia as well?
the hall where i live apparently needs a complete gut and redo (admittedly the decor was horrid).
Buy and sell. Buy and sell.
Do up, upgrade - spend hundreds of thousands on decor. Needless decor.
Our local baptist church has had the same building for the past 100 odd years - the interior is humble and simple.
The congregants dress simply, jeans, T-shirts - too interested in being Christians to faff about dressing up to the max.
The young never ever need to be counselled about indecent dress (unlike JW youth) as they are not into primping themselves up and trying to wear eye catching dress - they just show up like clean, fresh young people with no agenda.
They are wanting to do some renovations, but - funds to help an overseas village in Asia are the priority, providing decent housing and water resources.
I have seen hundreds and hundreds of thousands WASTED on refits when the existing hall was fine....this baptist church opened my eyes - filled to the brim, car parking awkward - they don't seem to over worry. They are more concerned with helping the community, spending efforts assisting the impoverished and needy - whilst the JWs have 'working bees' on their own buildings clean what is already perfectly clean.
Ugh.
so we've heard from three different governing body members this year regarding child sexual abuse.. the latest one on the rc admitted there's a sexual abuse problem within the cult, yet lett and morris swept the dirt under the carpet stating they have a great reputation as far as sex abuse is concerned, and pointed their fingers at "apostate lies".
.
i'm left totally confused at the contradiction of this "organization"..
Like you, something changed for me - hearing Jackson's incredible lie.
Many times, I have stood alone over a difficult issue in relation to explaining some tricky part of JW practice and doctrine - trembling inside a little, I'd attempt a fearless 'witness'.
I endangered relationships with non witness family and friends and looking back, I'm gobsmacked they still love me and don't hold my former bigoted stance against me.
I delivered and pushed literature written by men who I now realise are beyond all trust - And ( as I have long since realised) the recipient had every right to thrust that trashy illustrated piece of manipulative garbage back in my face as they gently pointed out that it misquoted and lied. I actually tried to defend it - as my weak mind believed this came from 'Jehovah's mouthpiece'.
Then we have Toole protest that he had no clear understanding of theocratic warfare.
I was nobody in the scheme of JW things - in a small city congregation - and I KNOW we ALL understood the terms of theocratic warfare. I was baptised circa 1990. How despicable of this agent of God to beg ignorance as he was baptised after 1957, after the written piece put before him at the commission.
How could he possibly miss 'understanding' this JW concept?
It was globally understood.
He lied. Didn't he?
straight after the commission ended today within minutes, the phone rang.
it was one of the people who are working on it.
firstly she established if i was alright and did i want to talk.. i said i was too tired and unhappy that geoffrey jackson managed to do some preaching....she said they were aware of that.
Watching the WT representatives has been so liberating - they lied and used deceptive language.
The fact that Mr Jackson skirted around subjects, had not bothered to read BCGs testimony showed the 'genuiness' of his love. No excuse Mr Jackson.
It's not at all hard to see through these men. Shameful.
no doubt we noticed the royal commission ask vin toole (and i think terry o'brien) about the expression "theocratic warfare"?.
they were asked to explain it and what is meant to witnesses.. vin outrightly lied when he said he "had never heard of that expression!".
i remember him using that term in conversations and talks many times!!
I haven't seen the video - did this representative for Jehovah via the WTBTS really say he'd never heard the expression 'theocratic warfare' ? Really?
What a liar - all JWs KNOW this expression and it's meaning in relation to communicating with the 'world'.
I feel so sick that I trusted these liars and their ridiculous leadership.
one of the contributing factors to me leaving was the realisation we were being led by idiots.
bethel life reinforced that, middle aged ego's trying to suck up to brooklyn.
ray franz book was a final nail for me, because he described the same incompetence along with the same ego's.
Post Script - I turned my life over to these 'shephards' having been sold 'we are different' to other religions - if we are in the final part of the days, one would hope for people to be able to say ' God is truly amongst you people'.
Forgive me, but in the end, I simply couldn't coerce other humans to follow these earthly leaders who do not give me a sense of security and well being in their pastoral care....I can handle imperfect individual traits, but not collective deception, arrogance and lack of care for the conscience of their flock...
To follow these self acclaimed brothers of Christ - I must carry the load of their deceptive tricks and ultimately be like them - no thanks. Really, no thanks.
Am I much happier not being with the 'close association of brothers' ? Not yet - I'm grieving and having struggles with the hurt.
Hurt that is the result of losing over 25 years of my ordered life - it wasn't all bad - at all!
But, we cannot live a lie.
one of the contributing factors to me leaving was the realisation we were being led by idiots.
bethel life reinforced that, middle aged ego's trying to suck up to brooklyn.
ray franz book was a final nail for me, because he described the same incompetence along with the same ego's.
There were countless uncomfortable moments for me which led to the final realisation that I couldn't 'do' this anymore - and one outstanding stomach churning, panic inducing moment was when I laid eyes on that illustration depicting Jehovah's organisation - the GB sitting around a boardroom table seated in deluxe Pullman directors chairs - down to the hard stack chairs of elders....and so on ( and the message of 'down to' was miserably clear by the descending quality of furniture)
The dreadful TV broadcasts and now, the Royal Commission - no sign of earnest and open concern regarding true collaboration to resolve internal issues, just bumbling evasive answers and a foolishly arrogant and defensive stance.
Yes OP, the position of the RC is to bring a compliant set of standards into the handling of child abuse investigations within religious institutions - the GB has totally missed the point.
Humilty? Ha!
