Posts by CharlieSmith1975

40

Flier on "Day and Week of Christ's Death" to be mailed out to Kingdom Halls this week!

by CharlieSmith1975 in

the tricky thing about a mass mailing to all the kingdom halls is that mail is often not delivered to the kingdom hall but to a po box.

it is super easy to get all the addresses to hundreds of kingdom halls across the country and even have those addresses printed out for you as labels!

but when i did that before i got about a third of them back.

CharlieSmith1975

Here's the flier! Fits on 2 pages.

=======

WHAT DO JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES TEACH ABOUT THE DAY AND WEEK OF JESUS’ DEATH?

1. Jehovah’s witnesses teach that Jesus died on Friday, Nisan 14th, in 33 CE.

2. They teach that Jesus sent two disciples out on Nisan 13th to prepare for the Passover meal prior to sunset, but that the lamb was killed immediately after sunset.

3. They teach that the date changed at sunset from Nisan 13th to Nisan 14th and thus Jesus is killed within 24 hours of when the lamb was killed just after sunset.

4. Thus they teach that the time in the Bible called “between the two evenings” was the short time between sundown and nightfall.

5. The Bible says that Jesus was killed on a day of preparation, the day before a Sabbath day; thus they teach that the Passover meal was eaten on a day of preparation.

6. They teach that Jesus’ impalement at the “third hour” occurred at 9 a.m. on Friday, Nisan 14th.

7. They teach that Jesus rose on early Sunday morning before sunrise on Nisan 16th and that Jesus appeared the following 40 days before his ascension, meaning Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost 10 days after Jesus ascended to heaven.

8. In their publication “Insight On The Scriptures” (1:1153) under “Hour” they claim they cannot explain how it is that Jesus is said to have been impaled at the third hour of the day at Mark 15:25, and yet his trial at John 19:14 is said to have occurred at the sixth hour. That is, unless two different methods of calculating the hour were used in the Bible, which is not readily apparent, it would appear that Jesus’ trial at the sixth hour, which is at noon, occurred 3 hours after he was impaled at 9 a.m.

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH ABOUT THE DAY AND WEEK OF JESUS’ DEATH?

1. The Bible teaches that Jesus died on a Thursday before “three nights” (Matt. 12:40) in the grave. Jesus rose on a Saturday night. If Saturday night was the third night, then the first night would have been a Thursday night. That means Jesus must die on a Thursday according to the Bible.

2. Luke 22:7 clearly indicates that Jesus sent out two disciples to prepare for the Passover meal on the same day the lambs were killed and then came to eat the meal after sunset. Thus the Passover meal is eaten after sunset of the day the lambs are killed. Jewish tradition and history reflect that the Passover lambs were killed at the temple in Jerusalem beginning the ninth hour. Thus one disciple had to take the lamb to the temple to be killed that afternoon after 3 p.m. to be eaten after sunset. This is consistent with the Bible’s statement that the disciples were sent out on the day the lambs were killed to be eaten the next day after sunset.

3. When the Jews first left Egypt, they followed Egyptian custom of not changing the date until midnight as we do now. Thus the date did not change from Nisan 14th to the 15th until midnight. The same night the Jews left Egypt is the same night they ate Passover. The night the Jews left Egypt was the 15th of Nisan, not the 14th. Passover is said to be eaten on the 14th because the Passover meal ends at midnight when the angel of death comes. But after midnight the date changes to the 15th and thus the Jews are said leave that same night as Passover was eaten, but on the 15th.

4. The Jews had a concept of two mornings and two evenings. One morning began at midnight and another at sunrise. Likewise, they had a corresponding concept of one evening beginning at noon and another at sunset. So for the Jews, the time halfway “between the two evenings” was 3 p.m., which is when the lambs are customarily killed at the temple.

5. Nisan 14th, the day the lambs are killed at 3 p.m. is a day of preparation. But once sunset took place, it became the Sabbath. Thus Passover is always eaten on a special Sabbath day of Passover week, the first day of unfermented cakes. Passover is never eaten on a day of preparation. As the Bible says, the 1st day of unfermented cakes begins on Nisan 14th, in the evening (Ex 12:18). That’s because the date did not change at sunset but not until midnight. So just as the Jews are said to have left Egypt on the 15th shortly after Passover ended at midnight, then Jesus would have been arrested about the same time, Nisan 15th, a Sabbath day, not Nisan 14th, a day of preparation.

6. Per the Bible the third hour of impalement would have been at 9 p.m. following Jesus’ trial at Noon. In 33 CE, his trial would have occurred at noon (sixth hour) on Wednesday, Nisan 19th and he would have been impaled at 9 p.m. (third hour). Then at noon the following day, Thursday, a day of preparation, there was darkness for three hours prior to Jesus’ death at the ninth hour (3 p.m.) on Thursday, Nisan 20th.

7. Since Jesus died on Thursday, Nisan 20th, he would have risen early Sunday morning on the 23rd, seven days after the 16th. After appearing for 40 days, Jesus would have ascended just three days before Pentecost rather than 10 days before Pentecost. That is, the 120 disciples were in the upper room for only 3 days awaiting Holy Spirit rather than ten days.

8. When it is understood that Jesus died on a Thursday, which was Nisan 20th in 33 CE, there is no problem with the time of Jesus’ final trial occurring at noon prior to his impalement at the following third hour, which would have been at 9 p.m. That’s because there is no imperative for Jesus dying the same day he eats Passover or the same day he is arrested. Instead, Jesus would have eaten the Passover meal on Nisan 14th, which was Friday evening after sunset. After midnight it became the 15th and Jesus went out into the garden of Gethsemane where he was arrested. He appeared first before the high priest until sunrise when he was taken to the Sanhedrin. He was then taken to Pilate who discovered he was from Galilee, after which Pilate sent Jesus to Herod. During this week a political prisoner was released to the Jews as part of the week-long festival. So Herod had until Wednesday morning to return Jesus. When he returned Jesus, he and Pilate became good friends, both agreeing Jesus was innocent. Jesus’ final trial before Pilate was at noon and Pilate was present later that night when Jesus was impaled at 9 p.m. At nightfall it became the day of preparation for the special “high Sabbath” of the 21st , the 7th day of unfermented cakes, which is always a special Sabbath day regardless of the day of the week on which it occurs. In 33 CE, the 21st fell on a Friday. Thus this weekend there were two Sabbaths in a row, that Friday and Saturday. Jesus died at the ninth hour (3 p.m.) that Thursday, Nisan 20th. He was in the grave for three nights (Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday night), rising on Saturday night. He appeared for 40 days and then ascended to heaven. Holy Spirit arrived in the upper room just 3 days later. Thus the “mystery” of how Jesus can have a trial at the “sixth hour” and be impaled at the “third hour” is solved, because Jesus’ trial was clearly on a different day than he was impaled. Jehovah’s witnesses are confused only because they have the fixated belief that Jesus must die the same day (within 24 hours) the lambs are killed, so that Jesus fulfills being the “Passover lamb.” But Jesus dying any time during Passover Week would likewise sufficiently fulfill his being the “Passover Lamb.” Of note, Jesus did die on the same type of day (preparation) and at the precise hour (3 p.m.) the lambs were killed.

40

Flier on "Day and Week of Christ's Death" to be mailed out to Kingdom Halls this week!

by CharlieSmith1975 in

the tricky thing about a mass mailing to all the kingdom halls is that mail is often not delivered to the kingdom hall but to a po box.

it is super easy to get all the addresses to hundreds of kingdom halls across the country and even have those addresses printed out for you as labels!

but when i did that before i got about a third of them back.

CharlieSmith1975

The tricky thing about a mass mailing to all the Kingdom Halls is that mail is often not delivered to the Kingdom Hall but to a PO Box. It is super easy to get all the addresses to hundreds of Kingdom Halls across the country and even have those addresses printed out for you as labels! But when I did that before I got about a third of them back. So the trick is to know or guess the addresses where mail is actually delivered, that is, to Kingdom Hall locations that have mail boxes.

The focus of the flier will be for elders and the CO. The rank and file witness are told to destroy any "apostate" materials immediately and not to read it. Of course, they do anyway, but they can't really legitimately "share" or discuss it with any other witnesses or else they will be seen as disobedient. But if an elder gets it, he might presume it is being sent out to the local churches and people in the neighborhood and thus he needs to look into it and come up with a response in defense of the organization. Of course, in this case, there is no response beyond the WTS not understanding the least thing about Passover. An elder will be up on this or have the tools to do research and will quickly discuss it with others and get advice. Apostate material coming to the Kingdom Hall is an "event" for them. They think they are immune to what is being said. Plus they may have a rule to forward anything currently said about the witnesses to the WTS. So when it comes to exposing false JW teachings, elders are who you aim for. They are the mature ones, the thinkers and they think in terms of how things impact the congregation as well as the organization as a whole.

The topic of the date of Jesus' death is complex, though, and so it just touches on 8 topical points of "What Do Jehovah's Witnesses Teach About the Day and Week of Christ's Death" listing those 8 beliefs. Then another list under "What Does the BIBLE teach about the Day and Week of Christ's Death." The topical points save lots and lots of words. It's a one-page flier printed on two sides. It's brilliant! I guess I'll post it here in case anyone wants to hand a few of them to some local elders. Anyway, it will be fun to mail them out knowing the impact it will have.

The design is rather brilliant, I think, because of the inherent challenge of communicating with any witness. That is, the average witness has no idea what they believe or teach. Zippo! Ask any witness to explain why Jesus arrived in 1914 and see what happens? They have to look it up! Same here. Some technical points are not common knowledge so just exposing what the Bible teaches is not enough. What you have to do is what I did. You have to list exactly what JWs teach and then compare that to what the Bible teaches. So it is brilliant in the sense that it will actually teach the elder reading it what they teach, which might be a shock to them. Then it will show them what the Bible teaches. Once they compare the two, they will realize the WTS is a false prophet in this case, which won't make sense to them, since they think the WTS is "God's channel," right?

Point is, the WTS change their "new light" all the time. What is different here is that the elder won't figure out why the "new light" is coming from some "apostate" source and not directly from the WTS. And they will watch to see how quickly the WTS will try to correct their false teaching. In the meantime, what do they do? Do they maintain the false teaching until told otherwise, officially, by the WTS? Lots of witnesses think exactly that. They will tell you that they will accept what the Bible says when Jehovah corrects it. Only thing is, they think Jehovah only corrects it through the organization instead of directly from the Bible.

I also plan to send copies to some of the public witnesses, like Firpo Carr and others who have written books. I've already sent the text online to the "Snarky Apologist" (YouTube) who might like to have another thing to jab at the witnesses. So we'll see how that works.

600 copies at 50 cents a pop, including postage and envelope is just $300. The copies were only about $100, $75 for the printing and $25 for the colored paper. A small price to pay for the mischief this will cause! tee hee! I'll also send some to the WTS headquarters. They have hundreds of Kingdom Halls in large cities, like Los Angeles and in New York! So I'll run out of Kingdom Halls soon. But the more populated the area the better.

This will work like the kingdom, like leaven. It will start small and then spread. Elders like to talk among themselves and in large cities many elders living near each other serve in different congregations but they know each other. If something is going to affect the witness community, they will keep each other posted. They will wonder if they got the same letter or not.

Anyway, I'll have a fun day buying the bulk envelopes! Actually, I'm only going to mail out 300. I'm going to pass out the other 300 to churches, ministers and homes where I live with a note on it asking them to "please give this to one of Jehovah's Witnesses." Plus I'm definitely going to send one to my JW relatives. They will figure it out its from me for sure, but some have been in the truth a long time and they may as well know what I'm up to. (smile) Three of my relatives are elders, so.

I'll post some of the information below.

110

Four Blood Moons might be significant

by CharlieSmith1975 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqzhnx7xma.

the bible does say that the "day of jehovah" (armageddon) would be associated with the sun becoming dark followed by the moon turning to blood.

but the moon turning to blood is specific to a total lunar eclipse.

CharlieSmith1975

Speaking of paid, will you reimburse people that listen to you for the food and water they buy (perishable items) if it doesn't come true? In other words, you say you are giving a warning, how confident do you feel in this? If you want to make it legal, I am more than will to stock up on those items I would need with itemized reciepts. If nothing you predict comes true, will you put your money where your mouth is and reimburse me?//

Actually, if you were preparing for a disaster, you are told to store water and "non-perishable" items -- canned goods and dry goods. You'd anticipate the water would be off and electricity and so everything would go bad that was in the refrigerator or freezer, etc. It's general "disaster" preparedness, just in case you hadn't already done so. So it's good to have some emergency supplies in general. So thanks for the offer.

Actually, I wish you'd run to Wal-Mart and buy what I need, lots of canned goods. Then if the collapse doesn't happen, I'll pay you for it. But if it does happen, then you will have done a good deed giving a poor person food to survive. (smile)

110

Four Blood Moons might be significant

by CharlieSmith1975 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqzhnx7xma.

the bible does say that the "day of jehovah" (armageddon) would be associated with the sun becoming dark followed by the moon turning to blood.

but the moon turning to blood is specific to a total lunar eclipse.

CharlieSmith1975

DJS: You're in a catch-22 here. You realize that don't you?

"The scarlet-colored wild beast kills the harlot; the UN kills the BTG organizations, meaning the Federal Reserve, the Trilateral Commission, the CFR and, of course, the CIA."

Big Bang Theory, as always, is way ahead of you Delusional End of Timers:"

That is, these end-timers have their interpretations and their beliefs and you have yours. You believe one thing and they believe another. But what makes your beliefs better than theirs? Are you smarter than they are? More inspired? I understand skepticism and doubt, but fact is, from the other side, you simply look like you're still part of the darkness.

The Bible was not written for everyone. Those for whom it was written get more out of it than for those outside that small circle of God's favorites. All we can do is share that we're having a grand old time understanding the Scriptures and seeing all these prophecies fulfilled and can't wait until Armageddon starts. That's when we will be vindicated -- when Armageddon starts. Apparently not a moment before that, though.

Regards.

110

Four Blood Moons might be significant

by CharlieSmith1975 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqzhnx7xma.

the bible does say that the "day of jehovah" (armageddon) would be associated with the sun becoming dark followed by the moon turning to blood.

but the moon turning to blood is specific to a total lunar eclipse.

CharlieSmith1975

FINKELSTEIN: Why is it that when people read the words written in the bible they get mentally delusional and cognitively off balanced. Does insanity attract insanity ?

Perhaps they just cant accept that ancient mythology is fictional in nature and has nothing pertaining or relevant to reality. or maybe they cant grasp what was the original intent of those men who wrote those writings ?

Fearing fictional writing is proportionate to insanity is it not ?.

OK, I hear you. But here's how it rolls out on my side of the Bible. 1947 is when the Jews returned to their homeland on November 20th. That marks the beginning of the 70th jubilee, 49 years from 1947 to 1996. But knowing this allows us to date the Exodus to 1386 BC, without having to rely on defective ancient chronology. So just out of curiosity, we compare 1386 BC to what was happening in Egypt at the time and guess what? 1386 begins the rule of Akhenaten who is the pharaoh who suddenly became a monotheist like the Israelites. Meaning? Meaning that the effect of the 10 plagues was that Egypt became monotheistic and started worshipping Yahweh, at least for a short while! That would be a reasonable and expected response to the ten plagues if they really happened, right?

Guess what else. Archaeology pinpoints the destruction of LBA (late Bronze Age) Jericho to between 1350-1325 BC. Jericho was destroyed by the Israelites 40 years after they left Egypt. If you add 40 years to 1350-1325 BC you get 1390-1365 BC. That means archaeologists have long known when the Exodus was supposed to have occurred and that is the time of Amenhotep III and Akhenaten, not that many records including Manetho hadn't pointed to "Amenhotep" as the pharaoh of the Exodus.

So in an argument with JWs over archaeology, you could say archaeology contradicts the WTS when they try to date the Exodus to 1513 BC, which is way too early for the last destruction between 1350-1325 BC. But if you correctly date the Exodus to 1386 BC, then the archaeology from Jericho doesn't contradict that, but confirms it!

But do you think anti-Biblical archaeologists are going to even hint that Egypt became monotheist because of the ten plagues? No way! They are going to bury the idea the Exodus happened c. 1386 BC at all costs. Because once you see the impact of the 10 plagues on Egypt, that is, that they converted, then it will affect the rest of the timeline and all the lies the Jews have been telling about the timeline all this time. So it becomes political. True archaeology and true Bible chronology agree totally and we have evidence, even of the 10 plagues. But you won't see it in a Satan-controlled propaganda world.

So some of us know some things and some of us know others don't know some things, but they think they do. The ones who don't know WTF about anything real? Call the ones who know lots "idiots" and "insane" and "stupid" and all that, because that is all they can do. If you pass by a barking dog, you don't often stop to get it to stop barking at you -- you just walk on by and ignore it.

110

Four Blood Moons might be significant

by CharlieSmith1975 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqzhnx7xma.

the bible does say that the "day of jehovah" (armageddon) would be associated with the sun becoming dark followed by the moon turning to blood.

but the moon turning to blood is specific to a total lunar eclipse.

CharlieSmith1975

//You said the UN World Authority would be in charge. Who are these nations now ruling and what happened to the UN who is supposed to be in charge?//

Okay, here's how it works. There are four beasts, a Lion (Japan), a Bear (Russia) a 4-headed Leopard with 4 wings and "power indeed" (US and Allies), and a fourth beast that is ambiguous. The 4th beast represents Babylon the great that is destroyed by fire before the other nations are. When the 4th beast is killed, then the rulerships of these other nations are taken away and they are given an extension of "life" for "a time and a season."

This reflects when these nations join the UN who then becomes the ruling world authority. That's the interpretation. The 4th beast is not like the others and thus not a political organization it represents the international bankers who manipulate the world through money behind which are those agencies associated with Freemasonry, the Illuminati, etc. Skull and Bones, etc. The CIA is represented as being a horn of this 4th beast, the little horn with the many eyes.

BUT REALLY, it occurs to me that any interpretation is up for acceptance. After all, many false applications by the WTS are rejected by me as well but they think the prophecy is being fulfilled. So all I can do is just share that I see lots and lots of Bible prophecies fulfilled in modern times, but totally understand if you see none. But since this is a JW forum, I'll share one of my favorites that applies to the WTS. It's the parable of the vineyard workers.

Briefly in this parable, workers are hired to work in the vineyard. The first ones hired are told they would get the day's wage which is the penny. That penny comes to represent the invitation to the heavenly class. Then at the third, sixth, ninth and 11th hours, more workers are invited into the work. But they are told they will get "whatever is fair." Thus you have a TWO-CLASS system among the workers. The 1st-hour workers who will get the penny and from the 3rd-hour workers on, those who don't think they will get the penny. Thus the third through the 11th-hour workers represent the "earthly class" within the witness organization, and the 1st-hour workers represent the heavenly class! Everyone was of the anointed when the organization started but then some clearly felt they were not anointed and were identified as the earthly class.

What is fun here is that a half hour in scripture is 3.5 years, so a full hour is 7 years. So the 11 hours of work are assigned to 77 years from 1914 to 1991. But in that case, the third-hour workers at 21 years (3 x 7) should have been recognized in the organization. 21 plus 1914 is 1935! Thus, indeed, in 1935, the "other sheep" or earthly class were recognized! So here I am, jumping up and down, amazed at how accurate this prophetic parable reflected what would go on with the WTS.

But then, after the work is over for those 11 hours from 1914-1991, during the 12th hour, from 1991-1998 the workers are paid. They are paid from the last first. And guess what? ALL the workers are given a penny! This is shocking to the 1st-hour workers who murmur against the 11th hour workers. But the master insists he wants to be generous and gives the 1st-hour worker their penny for their work. So they don't lose their penny, but they are not happy about getting no more than the other workers.

So the bottom line is, all the "other sheep" after 1991 are invited into the heavenly class! The GB and the WTS are not part of that. They are shocked by it, but they don't get paid until the very end. They get paid last. The WTS further doesn't understand this because they think that they are the last of only 144,000 who are invited to heaven. But in fact, per Isa 6:13, the 144,000 are simply the holy root of the kingdom, they make up the natural Jews!

ISA 6:13 "“But there will still be a tenth in it, and it will again be burned, like a big tree and like an oak, which after they are cut down leave a stump; a holy seed* will be its stump.”

In the NT the kingdom is also represented as a tree, an olive tree, where the unfaithful Jewish branches are replaced by gentile branches. But the root is never replaced. That remains a remnant of natural Jews, 12K from each tribe. So in reality, the 144,000 literally are all natural Jews, but only make up the root and thus one-tenth of the whole, meaning the entire number in the kingdom are 1,440,000! So you see, there are a lot more places in the kingdom than the WTS was aware of.

In fact, when you follow the other prophecies, where you have the kingdom represented as a wedding feast, even lots of those invited don't show up, they beg off. Those invited represent JWs and other Christians who are not paying attention. So there are lots of empty seats in the kingdom that are actually filled by non-Christians. The WTS does not understand this because they have now been cast out as the "evil slave."

But even that is interesting. There must be an "evil slave" organization during the end times and guess who fulfills that? The WTS! That is, the GB of the WTS! Now lots of XJWs will be the first to say the WTS is a "false prophet." But they don't want to believe the reference in the Bible to the "evil slave" or in Revelation about the "false prophet" has anything to do with the WTS, when it actually does. I think deep down, they don't believe the WTS is really a legitimate religion at all and so wouldn't have any mention in the Bible. But in fact, they are the "temple" organization, the one that preaches the good news and so many prophecies in the bible are about them.

When I say "temple" organization it reflects that when the Christian covenant was set up Christians became like the 12 tribes of Israel, God's chosen people. Witnesses think they are the only true religion. But like the 12 tribes of Israel, there was one tribe that was set aside to do the temple work, the tribe of Levi. Likewise, within Christendom one religion would be chosen as a temple sect and that sect turns out to be JWs. But whoever is the temple sect, that is, God's "house" organization, would also produce the evil slave and the man of lawlessness. They would be exposed as the man of lawlessness at the very end just before Armageddon, and so that is what is happening now.

So I'm seeing all these prophecies being fulfilled and you are seeing nothing. That simply means, like beauty, prophecy and fulfillment are definitely seen in the eyes of the beholder. What makes my interpretation any better than that of the WTS from your perspective? So all that is left is just to tell you that some of us see tons of Bible prophecies being fulfilled, but understand why others see nothing. God enlightens whom he chooses and maintains darkness for the rest. It's always been that way. The secrets and special meanings have always been for the insiders and others looking on see nothing. Their eyes are open but they see nothing, they hear but have no understanding.

110

Four Blood Moons might be significant

by CharlieSmith1975 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqzhnx7xma.

the bible does say that the "day of jehovah" (armageddon) would be associated with the sun becoming dark followed by the moon turning to blood.

but the moon turning to blood is specific to a total lunar eclipse.

CharlieSmith1975

How do the CIA, drug dealing and gun running make it easy for the Federal reserve to be outlawed? How are they linked? Who will do the outlawing? Who will do the enforcing? Be specific.

LOL. They are both linked to Babylon the Great, they are BTG agencies. The scarlet-colored wild beast kills the harlot; the UN kills the BTG organizations, meaning the Federal Reserve, the Trilateral Commission, the CFR and, of course, the CIA.

But the point is, that a prophesy will be fulfilled depending on your interpretation and understanding of it. Ifyou don't like this application and you reject it, then it is not fulfilled.

JW have many false teachings but in this case, they correctly identify the scarlet-colored wild beast as the UN and so they think the Bible prophecy about this organization was fulfilled. You don't.

They are getting ready to set up the UN world government, Putin refers to it in his speech. But the US news doesn't emphasize that, they want to keep the American public in the dark until the last minute. Obama is shifting more and more responsibility to the global community, doing more and more things as an international community. So to say the UN is not growing stronger or that a global authority doesn't make sense in a global economy like this is, well, rather naive to me. But you're entitled to keep your eyes closed.

110

Four Blood Moons might be significant

by CharlieSmith1975 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqzhnx7xma.

the bible does say that the "day of jehovah" (armageddon) would be associated with the sun becoming dark followed by the moon turning to blood.

but the moon turning to blood is specific to a total lunar eclipse.

CharlieSmith1975

sowhatnow We always have tribulation. the great tribulation was , in mu opinion, the destruction of Jerusalem in 70.

Wow, your Bible knowledge astounds me! You must have a photographic memory! At any rate...

RE: The "great tribulations": There are two "great tribulations" -- one that occurs before the 2nd coming and the other that occurs after it. Basically one occurs in relation to the Jews and was the Holocaust, where 2/3rds of the Jews were exterminated as prophesied (Zech 13:8), and that foreshadows when God will come and basically exterminate 2/3rds of the gentile world at the second "great tribulatoin" which happens at Armageddon.

So please note that the second great tribulation that leads into Armageddon happens after Christ has returned and has sealed the last saint into the kingdom. That is, when that last person is sealed, then the "four winds" are said to be released. But Matthew 24 is a reference to the firsts "great tribulation" that is connected to Daniel 12 and the Jews and that tribulation is focused on the "holy ones" meaning the Jews. That tribulation was to be an event that never occurred before nor would occur again and is a reference to the Holocaust. But note Matthew 24:29 which clearly notes this is not a reference to Armageddon: "Immediately AFTER those days...then the sign of the son of man would appear in the heavens."

See? The tribulation of Matthew occurs just before the second coming is supposed to take place. So one great tribulation takes place before Christ arrives, which was the Holocaust, and the second "great tribulation" which is associated with Armageddon happens a while after Christ has arrived and gathered all his elect. Of course, JWs never did figure out that the tribulation of Matthew happens before the second coming and the great tribulation/Armageddon in Revelation is a different tribulation, one that affects the gentiles.

70 CE was a "great tribulation" as well that foreshadowed the Holocaust. In fact, Jesus being surrounded in the garden of Gethsemane after passover creates a pattern that is also played out in 70 CE in regards to the Holocaust. That is, being surrounded in the garden by an army foreshadowed when Jerusalem would be surrounded by an army in 70 CE. But that in turn foreshadowed when anti-typical Jews in modern times would be surrounded by an army as well. That is, Warsaw, Poland, would be the capital city of the Jews in exile and it was literally sounded by the Nazi army at one point. That was the sign to flee the city, which represented Jerusalem. If you didn't, then you were sealed up in the Jewish ghettos and exterminated.

So sure, 70 CE was a great tribulation, but the specific "great tribulation" of Daniel 12 and thus Matthew 24 relates to a one-time event. An event that was to happen during the end times. An event that never happened before nor would happen again. An event that would see 2/3rds of the Jews exterminated within a 7-year period (1940-1947) and the Jews restored to their homeland after those 7 years (1947). That "great tribulation" was specifically aimed at the "holy ones" who would have been completely exterminated unless the "days were cut short." In other words, 2/3rds of the Jews (six million out of nine million) were to be exterminated during the 7-year tribulation period of 1940-1947, but by late 1944 Hitler had killed off six million Jews. Had he continued he would have killed off more Jews! So the "days were cut short" for the sake of the holy ones, that is, the 1/3 that were to survive. Even so, they did not come out of official exile until the end of the 7-year period on November 30, 1947.

Bible prophecy is loosely interpreted by many when they have a loose reading. But the close reading narrows down the fulfillments.

At any rate, whatever. Separating Armageddon from the Holocaust is probably the most significant issue here. Not hard to see one tribulation is before Christ returns and the second one is after he has returned and gathered his anointed ones, just before Armageddon. Jesus being surrounded in the garden links to Jerusalem being surrounded by the Roman army, which foreshadows the Nazis surrounding Warsaw, Poland just prior to the Holocaust. The great tribulation of Matthew, though, is a one-time event that occurs during the end times, so it wasn't 70 CE, but it is also not Armageddon.

110

Four Blood Moons might be significant

by CharlieSmith1975 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqzhnx7xma.

the bible does say that the "day of jehovah" (armageddon) would be associated with the sun becoming dark followed by the moon turning to blood.

but the moon turning to blood is specific to a total lunar eclipse.

CharlieSmith1975

You should phrase it the same way as the WT does, you know, so if it happens you can say "See, you were warned!", but if it doesn't happen you can say "We never said it was definite!".

Actually, you are exactly right! Only there is a LEGAL aspect to this. It is similar to the mandate that if you know there is coming destruction and you don't go and warn that person, then their blood is on your hands -- you become blood guilty. But if you warn that person and they ignore you, then it's all on them. They can't say nobody warned them. So it's like a LEGAL NOTICE. You've been legally notified so that just in case it does happen, you can't go to court and say you had no warning, this isn't fair, please give me another chance, if someone told me I would have surely paid attention! The people delivering the message expect to be ignored by most of the people they deliver it to, but they still have to deliver the warning.

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Four Blood Moons might be significant

by CharlieSmith1975 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqzhnx7xma.

the bible does say that the "day of jehovah" (armageddon) would be associated with the sun becoming dark followed by the moon turning to blood.

but the moon turning to blood is specific to a total lunar eclipse.

CharlieSmith1975

You seem to be the only one hyping this up as bible prophecy, just shows the efficacy..............Oh sod it, I can't be bothered.

Right! "And they took no note, until the flood came and swept them away."

For the believers, the Bible says when we start to see these things, to lift up our heads because our deliverance is getting near. So I'm getting excited! No more earthly governments taking away our divine right to use drugs!