Posts by alamb

21

Should religious claims be tried in court?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

most people of the western world believe that the freedom to speak and express your opinion is a fundemental "right" of humans.. but how far can free speech go?.

what if i owned a cigarette firm, and i wanted to say on the packet, "somking is very benifical for you".

am i using my right to free speech, or am i misleading other people?.

alamb

Well, it takes about 4 years and costs about $27,000. Just kidding. That's what is cost me.

My ex did a dandy job of alienating the kids from me. He would call at night and pray for them to be protected in our home. I showed the court that he was using religion to alienate them from me. He would phone and tell us they were not allowed to celebrate holidays (I was a JW for 34 years, I should remember by now, you think?)

The order states that if the kids see me shunned, he is not a proper parent, and they come back to live with me. He swore in court that shunning doesn't destroy families but is a loving provision. I put out a call on the net for statements of those who say otherwise and got a load. From 3 countries and they are still coming. I took that back to the judge which was over the legal limit for evidence but it worked. The judge is deciding what to do now.

A city overseer even came and testified that there is no Custody Packet put out by the society or even an Organization book. That is called perjury. Any my ex used perjury when he allowed him to testify falsely as he was an elder and knew the truth. I am going to prosecute and Bill is going to put the video of the CO lying on his site.

Also, I am taking the affidavits and filing a civil rights complaint on behalf of parents/grandparents with the ACLU. Unbaptized children aren't to be taught to shun as they aren't members.
"As regards the alleged involvement of children, the [WatchTower Bible and tract Society] submits that children cannot become members of the association but only participate, together with their parents, in the religious activities of the community."
{Sworn testimony submitted by the Society in evidence before the European Human Rights Commission Jul 3 1997}

If anyone needs help I will contact you personally. Just ask me. I have a whole arsenal of this stuff ready to go. Someone help me with a website!

21

Should religious claims be tried in court?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

most people of the western world believe that the freedom to speak and express your opinion is a fundemental "right" of humans.. but how far can free speech go?.

what if i owned a cigarette firm, and i wanted to say on the packet, "somking is very benifical for you".

am i using my right to free speech, or am i misleading other people?.

alamb

Courtesy of Rick Ross:

In Bentley v. Bentley, a case very similar to LeDoux "Affirmed a visitation modification prohibiting the non-custodial father from teaching his children the doctrines of the Jehovah's Witnesses and taking them to the sect's religious functions." Because they were being raised as Catholics by the custodial mother, the judge concluded they would be "emotionally strained and torn" as a result of the conflict (Mangrum, 1991, p.483).

In the case of Mendez versus Mendez, Judge Philip W. Knight admitted that, "Religion was a very strong determining factor" in his 1985 decision awarding custody to Ignacio Mendez, the non-Witness parent, instead of Rita Mendez, the mother and Witness parent. In this case, the judge ruled that he did not want the daughter, Rebecca, to grow up "Confused and possibly hurt by the tug between the faiths of the mother and father, concluding that it is best to have one set of beliefs reigning in her life." Also important in the case was the Jehovah's Witness prohibition against blood transfusion. The judge felt these beliefs were so detrimental that he ordered the Witness mother not to expose their child to any teaching contrary to Catholicism, nor is she allowed to permit anyone else to do so.

A March 18, 1993 Wisconsin 4th District Court of Appeals ruling upheld a court ruling that prevented the non-custodial parent from imposing his religious views on his children. The father, Robert Langue, now must visit his three daughters, ages 6, 9 and 11, only if supervised by a social worker to insure that he does not try in impose his "religious views on the children."

A November 1993 Canadian Supreme court ruling in Young versus Young upheld the court's right to prohibit a non-custodial parent form indoctrinating and even proselytizing his child in the Watchover theology and lifestyle (See Canadian Press Report in Spectator, Jan 26, 1993 - see also Plouffe versus Plouffe)

In LeDoux the Nebraska Supreme Court affirmed on appeal a district court divorce decree that ordered the non-custodial father, a Jehovah's Witness, "to refrain from exposing or permitting any other person to expose his minor children to any religious practices or teachings inconsistent with the Catholic religion." In a concurring opinion, Judge Grant emphasized the possible breadth of the decision by opining: "I do not see how one parent with one set of religious beliefs can raise their minor children with full training and instruction in each parent's beliefs without reducing their minor children to a totally confused, psychologically disastrous state" (at 487, 452 N. W. 2d) (Grant, J., concurring, joined by Hastings, C.J., and Boslaugh, J.)

Many judges are leery of bringing the issue of religion into the courtroom, and will often not openly assign custody on the basis of religion. Some prefer that it not even be discussed in their court. It must be stressed that the actual concern is not religious doctrine but the lifestyle that the Watchtower requires, and especially the disastrous psychological consequences of this lifestyle

21

Should religious claims be tried in court?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

most people of the western world believe that the freedom to speak and express your opinion is a fundemental "right" of humans.. but how far can free speech go?.

what if i owned a cigarette firm, and i wanted to say on the packet, "somking is very benifical for you".

am i using my right to free speech, or am i misleading other people?.

alamb

I may be the exception, but I have a signed court order:

"The Court must insist that the children will not be exposed to any shunning of their mother, whether by the congregation of elders or any other person or body......this Court has found the children's relationship with their mother has been severely damaged by the practice of shunning as has occurred in the presence of these children. The Court finds that the harm from shunning in this case, given the other manipulations and harmful conduct these children have been subjeted to, would continue to create emotional and psychological damages which would impede the bonding with their mother. It will not be tolerated further in this case so long as it interferes with the children's bonding with their mother....In summary, shunning must cease immediately because these children have already been harmed by the practice. Though the Jehovah's Witness Church has the right to shun certain individuals, in this case, the practice has damaged small children."

How's that for first amendment? The judge ruled the practice was damaging to my relationship with my children, and that was that.

21

Should religious claims be tried in court?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

most people of the western world believe that the freedom to speak and express your opinion is a fundemental "right" of humans.. but how far can free speech go?.

what if i owned a cigarette firm, and i wanted to say on the packet, "somking is very benifical for you".

am i using my right to free speech, or am i misleading other people?.

alamb

A number of cases which have gone as far as the Supreme Court have cited that religion cannot be sanctioned in any way under the civil right to freedom of religion.
However, the practices of such can be ruled against if they are proven harmful.
Give me a minute, I'll find some.

7

Christianity Today / JW Child Abuse Issue

by Amazing in

christianity today magazine, with a large circulation in north america deals with many issues, including reporting on legal events facing various christian based religions.. in the march 5, 2001 issue the reporter discusses this topic, quoting bill bowen.

in the same issue of the magazine, they also discussed the watchtower society reorganization that took place in october 2000. it is not too long.

here it is: http://christianitytoday.aol.com/ct/2001/004/23.html

alamb

I like this link. Good lookin' kids, huh? ;o)

http://www.geocities.com/veniceexjw/ct.html

49

Patriotic Baptists -- Crazy!

by Yadirf in

jw
friends

this is the web site of a certain bethel baptist church: http://www.bethelmac.org/.

notice the two waving american flags at the bottom of their home page.. .

certainly a nationalistic bunch, aren't they!.

alamb

Yadirf:

Where do the scriptures say that Cornelius (remember him, the officer) had to resign his position before baptism, or after for that matter?

Acts 10 NWT "an army officer fo the Italian band, a devout man and one fearing God together with all his household, and he made many gifts of mercy to the people and made supplication to God continually." The angel came to him and said his prayer had been answered due to his gifts of mercy. (His works were found acceptable to God in spite of his military stance) He was not commanded to leave his post as was the rich man who was commanded to leave his posessions in order to be worthy. There was no conflict in loyalty.

2

explaining JW suicide to an outsider

by wasasister in

jw
friends

a good friend living in oregon wrote to me about the mcminnville suicide/murder.

i thought i'd share with you my response.

an interesting question to be sure.

alamb

I explained it to my husband (before we saw the Matrix):

Imagine you found out your family had adopted you and they had all suddenly vanished leaving no forwarding address. They have chosen to believe a lie about you and you have no way to exhonerate yourself. You were actually created in a lab.

Your job has been eliminated at your company and the training and experience you have is not needed anywhere, permanently.

Your friends and children have been told you are mentally ill and to under no circumstances believe anything you say to be true...but to either ignore or patronize you. They believe this will help you.

In my experience, I felt as if I had been given a life sentence with the choice of pleading guilty to a crime I didn't commit as being my only recourse to freedom. Sell your soul or die.

The Matrix was a perfect example of being DF'd or DA'ing yourself.

Suicide becomes an option when there are no others.

If you have nothing to lose, you will live or die like you have nothing to lose.

8

Wedding Rings

by out4good3 in

jw
friends

i apologize in advance if this is a stupid question but can someone clue me in as to the supposedly pagan origins of wearing wedding rings or bands?

i sure would like to hit some of my jw relatives up with this and watch them squirm.

alamb

The wedding ring placement is also significant in palmistry. The love line and the specific finger are deliberate.

Go to Barnes and Noble and read up on palmistry and you will find the ring link.

11

Meeting Attendance and Being DAed

by rekless in

jw
friends

i was just reading a post here that some one said they were dfed and there was a coulple of daed persons attending the co visit.. i can not think of any senerio that would place me in that position.. please clue me in why would one go to a kh if one has daed oneself?.

this sounds as if one is suffering from sadism.. that is the last place i will ever go since i am daed.. hell is truth seen too late.

h.g.adams

alamb

I went to the Kingdom Hall for 2 years after DA'ing myself with my children.

I had been railroaded into being DF'd for leaving my abusive elder husband. THey couldn't even come up with a charge. I also had turned in my father for molesting me to try and get protection for my children to no avail. "we weren't on that committee" (He has admitted his actions in court, for the record) I was at the end of my rope.

I went to the committee meeting's and appealed the final decision. I won the appeal but stood up and shook their hands and DA'd myself at the JC meeting. I still believed the "truth" but thought they were a rotten bunch of elders. They eventually called me an "uncontrollable woman". I took that as a compliment. I DA'd myself to actually protect my children from my father as we would be shunned and to distance us from my ex.

I attended meetings and was recommended for reinstatement 4 times by 2 BOE's but it would never make it past the original committee. They were covering that they screwed up.

In the end, I bumped into a couple friends who had also left due to finding out "the truth about the truth" and helped me out the door.

10

Check out relatives struggle over Oregon killing

by belbab in

jw
friends

i haven't seen any posting of this article here yet.

this is a must read .

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/front_page/10163697352835756.xml.

alamb

Another article: KATU news stated:

"Mr. and Mrs. Bryant were concerned that relatives may seek custody of their four children, the congregation member told KATU. According to the church elder, relatives of the Bryant family had already filed documents in an effort to seek custody."

I guess being a non-jw disqualifies you as a parent also. What a tragedy.