tell us about your eating habits, are you health conscious do you avoid synthetic additives in food such as artificial flavours and preservatives and generally all processed food, are you vegetarian, vegan, do you buy organic food out of fear of pesticides, do you eat too much, do you go on diets often etc .
i was shocked to read somewhere that 90% of the food americans eat is processed.
it saves time using such food but....
I tend to eat a lot of cat meat (the younger the better) to the exclusion of other white meats. I also take various fishy and veggie oil supplements such as Wild Atlantic Salmon Oil pills and Omega 3-6-9 oil pills, and eat plenty of stinky sardines, which my Norwegian friend claims is among the best sources of healthy, heart-conscious food in the world.
AlanF
a question for leolaia, peaceful pete, narkissos, and/or any others who might know this:.
in this week's "what does the bible really teach" book study lesson, the appendix that is covered talks about the famous "70 weeks of years" prophecy of daniel 9:25. the society claims that the "69 weeks" runs from 455 bce to 29 ce, coinciding with jesus' baptism.. they derive the 455 bce date as "the 20th year of the reign of artaxerxes".
they claim that "historians agree that" artaxerxes began his reign in 474 bce.. i did a quick google search, and found absolutely nothing even remotely hinting at 474 bce as a beginning date for anyone.
A fascinating read, A Christian! While I have not looked in detail at the basis of your arguments, they certainly seem sound, and based on our previous discussions, I have no doubt that you've presented matters completely and fairly.
What sticks out most for me is that a very solid Christian can find very good arguments that reconcile the Bible's accounts with the solid facts of history. Carl Jonsson, as you know, has presented very good arguments along the same lines. This totally blows away the strawman argument of JW apologists, that criticisms only come from atheist-types or from people who have no respect for the Bible.
AlanF
a question for leolaia, peaceful pete, narkissos, and/or any others who might know this:.
in this week's "what does the bible really teach" book study lesson, the appendix that is covered talks about the famous "70 weeks of years" prophecy of daniel 9:25. the society claims that the "69 weeks" runs from 455 bce to 29 ce, coinciding with jesus' baptism.. they derive the 455 bce date as "the 20th year of the reign of artaxerxes".
they claim that "historians agree that" artaxerxes began his reign in 474 bce.. i did a quick google search, and found absolutely nothing even remotely hinting at 474 bce as a beginning date for anyone.
Fascinating stuff, Leolaia! The lumping of the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks into one continuous period never made any sense to me. It's like telling someone, "I'm 7 years and 62 years old." What's the point of splitting up a whole into two periods unless each period means something? Of course, the Society has never given a reasonable explanation for this, but has simply criticized translators who duplicate the RSV rendering (which follows traditional Jewish renderings as embodied in the Masoretic text) for making the sixty two weeks "senseless" (cf. Insight, V. 2, "Seventy Weeks", pp. 899-904), but has attempted no explanation for exactly what the "seven weeks" and the "sixty two" weeks actually mean.
Also, I didn't know that there was such a dichotomy of renderings for Dan. 9:25-27. Here are some renderings that agree with the RSV on Dan 9:25-26a:
know-therefore and-understand from-the-going-forth-of-the-word to-restore and-build Jerusalem to-the-coming-of-an-anointed-one a-prince there-shall-be-seven-weeks the-for-...-weeks sixty-two it-shall-be-built-again with-square and-moat but-in-a-troubled-time andafter the-...-weeks sixty-two an-anointed-one-shall-be-cut-off and-shall-have-nothing (Analytical Key to the Old Testament)
Know therefore and understand: from the time that the word went out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the time of an anointed prince, there shall be seven weeks; and for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with streets and moat, but in a trouble time. After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. (New Revised Standard Version)
You must know and understand: From the issuance of the word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the [time of the] anointed leader is seven weeks; and for sixty-two weeks it will be rebuilt, square and moat, but in a time of distress. And after those sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will disappear and vanish. (Tanakh--The Holy Scriptures)
Know, therefore, and discern that seven weeks [of years] will elapse between the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Yerushalayim until an anointed prince comes. It will remain built for sixty-two weeks [of years], with open spaces and moats; but these will be troubled times. Then, after the sixty-two weeks, Mashiach will be cut off and have nothing. (Complete Jewish Bible)
Know then and understand: from the time that the word went forth that Jerusalem should be restored and rebuilt, seven weeks shall pass till the appearance of one anointed, a prince; then for sixty-two weeks it shall remain restored, rebuilt with streets and conduits. At the critical time, after the sixty-two weeks, one who is anointed shall be removed with no one to take his part. (New English Bible)
Know, then, and understand: from the time that the decree went forth that Jerusalem should be restored and rebuilt, seven of those seventy will pass till the appearance of one anointed, a prince; then for sixty-two it will remain restored, rebuilt with streets and conduits. At the critical time, after the sixty-two have passed, the anointed prince will be removed, and no one will take his part. (The Revised English Bible)
And you are to know and see the point: from the going out of word to bring back and rebuild Jerusalem to a Warden Anointed is seven sevens; and for sixty-two sevens it will be coming back and being rebuilt, square and moat. And in the hard pinch of the times, and after the sixy-two sevens, there will cease to be an Anointed. (The Bible in Living English)
Know therefore and comprehend, that from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed the prince will be seven weeks: and during sixty and two weeks will it be again built with streets and ditches (around it), even in the pressure of the times. And after the sixty and two weeks will an anointed one be cut off without a successor to follow him. (Leeser)
Know then, understand, that between the issue of the prophetic command to re-people and rebuild Jerusalem and the consecrating of a supreme high priest, seven weeks of years shall elapse; in the course of sixty-two weeks of years it shall be rebuilt, with its squares amd streets; finally, after the sixty-two weeks of years, the consecrated priest shall be cut off, leaving no successor. (Moffat)
Note this and understand it: From the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until God's chosen leader comes, seven times seven years will pass. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, and will stand for seven times sixty-two years, but this will be a time of troubles. And at the end of that time God's chosen leader will be killed unjustly. (The Good News Bible; aka Today's English Version)
Know and understand this: from the utterance of the word that Jerusalem was to be rebuilt until one who is anointed and a leader, there shall be seven weeks. During sixty-two weeks it shall be rebuilt, with streets and trenches, in time of affliction. After the sixty-two weeks an anointed shall be cut down when he does not possess the city. (Saint Joseph Edition of the Holy Bible)
Know and understand this: From the utterance of the word that Jerusalem was to be rebuilt Until one who is anointed and a leader, there shall be seven weeks. During sixty-two weeks it shall be rebuilt, With streets and trenches, in time of affliction. After the sixty-two weeks an anointed shall be cut down. (The New American Bible)
Here is what you must understand: From the time the word goes out to rebuild Jerusalem until the coming of the Anointed Leader, there will be seven sevens. The rebuilding will take sixty-two sevens, including building streets and digging a moat. Those will be rough times. After the sixty-two sevens, the Anointed Leader will be killed -- the end of him. (The Message)
AlanF
a question for leolaia, peaceful pete, narkissos, and/or any others who might know this:.
in this week's "what does the bible really teach" book study lesson, the appendix that is covered talks about the famous "70 weeks of years" prophecy of daniel 9:25. the society claims that the "69 weeks" runs from 455 bce to 29 ce, coinciding with jesus' baptism.. they derive the 455 bce date as "the 20th year of the reign of artaxerxes".
they claim that "historians agree that" artaxerxes began his reign in 474 bce.. i did a quick google search, and found absolutely nothing even remotely hinting at 474 bce as a beginning date for anyone.
Artaxerxes' accession year was 465 B.C., not 474. I believe the Society's teaching is left over from Russell's time. Its "celebrated scholars" are too unimaginative to come up with alternate ways of calculating the "70 weeks" prophecy, although plenty of "the chronologers of Christendom" don't seem to have a problem with it.
For a comprehensive look at the issue, go here: http://user.tninet.se/~oof408u/fkf/english/artaxerxes.htm
AlanF
hello my name is jake and i am in a world religion course currently and for my final project i must conduct a research paper other than my own.
i have ten questions that i would like to ask a currently practicing jw.
if you are interested please send me an email with a little bit about yourself and i would like to request that you respond to each question with about 200 words.
Damn, jwfacts, you took the words right out of my mouth!
So I'll give some answers of my own, as might come from your standard-issue braindead JW:
: 1. What are the important holidays and traditions of this religion?
We have no holidays, and no traditions. We are a pure people and holidays and traditions are pagan practices. Except we can celebrate pagan traditions like wedding anniversaries, birthdays when no one outside the family knows, baptisms, and so forth.
: 2. How has religion shaped your life?
It is the basis for everything I do (except when I don't want to).
: 3. What are the challenges, if any, to practicing this particular religion?
Explaining many of our teachings and practices to knowledgeable critics. Trying to fit the 160 hours of personal study, formal study, meeting attendance, going out in service, and so forth, into the 168 hours in a week. Trying to keep a straight face at the end of district conventions when the speaker announces, "Brothers! Did we not enjoy these wondrous spiritual provisions from Jehovah?"
: 4. How are followers of your religion portrayed in your community?
As Bible scholars.
: 5. What event in your life significantly impacted the choice you made to worship this religion?
I was born into it and trained in the Truth.
: 6. Please tell me in your own words any historical relevance of your religion.
Ours was the religion of Able, Enoch, Moses, Jesus and the Apostles! It is the oldest religion on earth.
: 7. What factors contribute to someone being observed as a “model” worshiper?
Preparing for all meetings, answering several times at meetings, singing loudly, handling the mics without dropping them, obeying the elders in everything, obeying our wondrous Governing Body as if God were speaking.
: 8. If you had to describe your religion in one word, what would it be and why?
Truth. Because it is.
: 9. Is there any significance to your religions racial population? Why or Why not?
No. Jehovah is not partial but accepts all men. Women, too.
: 10. Please tell me to the best of your knowledge who wrote or provided your written teachings, worship, song etc.
Jehovah.
AlanF
of course the area known as mesopotamia was real, and it looks like there is evidence of a "tower of babel".
but as for the story of all languages, etc is it where everyone came from?.
when we look at society today, as cultures and people of different races merge together, we see people becoming more like each other, not more distinct.
Breeze, mankind in one form or another has existed for a couple of million years. During that time, language evolved. That time span is extremely long compared with modern human history since the beginning of agriculture some 8,000 years ago. It stands to reason that, just as during historical times, languages evolved drastically during those millions of years. Since there are no written records earlier than a few thousand years ago, and precious few clues of any kind about mankind until the beginning of agriculture, there simply is no way to prove anything about how language came about.
There is some negative evidence about a claim that languages were created by fiat in Mesopotamia some 4,400 years ago and spread from there all over the world. For one thing, there is no real evidence for such a spread. For another, recent genetic studies indicate that outside of Africa, most humans spread from a location in Central Asia (not sure of the details; I saw an interesting Discovery Channel presentation on this not long ago). For a third, genetic studies of Africans indicates that African genes are much more diverse within Africa than are the genes of all "races" outside the continent, and language studies indicate the same thing, both of which indicate no spreading of African languages or genes from Mesopotamia.
AlanF
this one is for the politically correct crowd: .
is there no 'absolute truth'?
do you want to live that one out?
The sad fact is that Shining One's mindset, taken to its logical limit, means that he and his ilk would run rampant over everyone around them if their God were not around to tell them not to hurt other people.
In other words, they believe that they're inherently extremely evil, nasty folk who need a gun to their heads to make them behave.
What a religion!
AlanF
well everybody, it has been accomplished.
i have revealed my feelings to the elder i talked about in some of my last posts.
things didn't go so well, but i dosn't really matter now.
Good points, Drew and others!
This complete ignoring of biblical warnings goes straight to the top of the Watchtower cult. Back in 1994, I had a phone conversation with GB member Albert Schroeder (this was a followup to one some nine months earlier, arranged by my JW parents) about his failure to comment on some material I had sent him that he had promised to deal with. Near the end of the conversation, when I realized it was hopeless talking to this moron, I decided to challenge him with Luke 21:8. He got out his NWT (which he had a part in producing) and read the passage. I said, "Why does this clear warning not apply to Jehovah's Witnesses?" He needed no further prompting as to my implication, because he hemmed and hawed and tried everything to avoid giving a direct answer. I kept up prodding him and finally he said, "You're not going to let up until I give you an answer, are you!" I said, "No." He said, "Well, it can't apply to us, because we're God's people!" At that point I realized I was dealing with a complete idiot, and soon ended the conversation. This experience taught me in no uncertain terms that the rot in the Watchtower Society is systemic and cannot be rooted out.
What's amazing is that JWs on various levels can manage to come up with identical excuses, never having seen any of them explicitly discussed in print. I suppose the cult mindset generates similar braindead defenses.
The Society has produced a good deal of literature with titles that directly violate the spirit of Luke 21:8. Off the top of my head:
The Time Is At Hand (1889)
The Kingdom Is At Hand (1944)
The Approaching Peace of a Thousand Years (1969)
God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached (1973)
There have been many others, and of course, copious violations of the spirit of Luke 21:8 in the text of Watchtower publications from its earliest days. That supposedly bright and spiritual men can so blatantly disregard a basic teaching of the one they claim to hold as their leader -- Jesus Christ -- goes to show how powerful cult brain-killing can be.
AlanF
this one is for the politically correct crowd: .
is there no 'absolute truth'?
do you want to live that one out?
This guy is certainly a poster boy for the braindead Fundies, eh? Every favorite dumb teaching of theirs, he's adopted. Much like fanatical JW newbies do with their cult.
AlanF
can anyone provide me with any evidence (links to other sites is fine) that jerusalem could not have possibly fallen to the babylonians in 607?
thanks again for your answers.
zico
scholar pretendus goatus buggerus said:
: The evidence in the Insight book is hardly likely or probable.
How true!
: What facts make 538 more likely or probable than 537? What facts disprove 537?
I've posted the facts at least half a dozen times. Each time you've completely ignored them. In particular, Josephus in combination with Ezra proves that the Jews must have returned to Judah in 538, because Josephus states that work on the temple was begun in Cyrus' 2nd regnal year, whereas a return date of 537 requires that the work began in Cyrus' 3rd year in 536 B.C.
: There are none and Alan F knows this and so does Jonsson
Your brazen lies are here for all to see.
: because if there were then Jonsson would have discussed the matter
He did, you moron. Ignoring what he said does not make it go away. At least, not for people with normal mental faculties.
: and his sole interest in the matter was dealt in a footnote. A footnote would you believe!!!
You've contradicted yourself in just one sentence. First you claim that Jonsson failed to discuss the matter. Then you say he discussed it, but in a footnote. This is pretty typical for a JW discussing doctrinal matters.
On the other hand, the Insight book merely speaks of "maybes" and "likelies". Solid references to scholars' opinions presented in a footnote really do mean something. Speculations presented in the main text unaccompanied by good arguments or scholarly opinions are meaningless.
: So please list your issues against 537 and Alan F can do the same. I want my list.
I've done so several times, you stupid liar. The most recent time was on page 14 of this thread, in post #4440 dated 20-May-06 20:21, where I posed a set of leading questions, which you've completely ignored. How can anyone be that stupid?
AlanF
