Thanks for the link, Satanus, but my request for a reading list obviously concerned books written by competent, recognized authors, not an amateur writing on what is essentially a discussion board.
AlanF
Posts by AlanF
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537evolution or creation? lets talk...
by Sam87 inok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?
(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .
hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .
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537
evolution or creation? lets talk...
by Sam87 inok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?
(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .
hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .
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AlanF
I understand quite well what you're saying, LittleToe, having once been a grossly ignorant JW myself. I too made the effort to educate myself on many topics that had been more or less off limits. On several old Usenet forums, I made a fool of myself a number of times when trotting out my JW-influenced beliefs. I was strongly corrected with solid information and references to appropriate sources. But rather than getting bent out of shape by people telling me of my ignorance and telling me how to cure it, I availed myself of the help. This is quite in contrast with most of the creationists who have posted on this thread, who I cannot accurately describe without violating forum posting guidelines. Such posters are good studies in the arrogance bred by gross ignorance, which in turn is born of blind religious belief.
AlanF
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537
evolution or creation? lets talk...
by Sam87 inok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?
(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .
hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .
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AlanF
Interesting information, Ian! This goes along with other recent discoveries that the so-called Cambrian explosion, quite in contrast with creationist claims, was in no sense an origination of all sorts of life from basically nothing, but that it was an elaboration of life, an explosion in complexity, in particular of animals with hard parts. Such animals, in contrast with the soft-bodied animals before the Cambrian, tend to preserve well. That's why pre-Cambrian fossils are so rare.
Recent discoveries of the pre-Cambrian Ediacaran and Vendian faunas, soft-bodied all, from the 60-100 million years before the Cambrian, show that this life was a long time in the making. The recent discovery that the earth was a giant snowball for some ten million years, until about 60-100 million years before the Cambrian, is consistent with these fossil discoveries.
AlanF
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537
evolution or creation? lets talk...
by Sam87 inok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?
(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .
hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .
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AlanF
Well, TopHat, you certainly fulfilled my expectations. I think posters see that you're quite full of yourself, in same way that JW defenders who 'know' they have the truth are when defending Mommy against us nasty "apostates".
Now lets see if whyizit follows you.
AlanF
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23
Disfellowshipping
by vanillamocha ini was recently in court for the domestic violence charges against my former (and still in excellent standing) spouse.
he is using all jws to say how he is such a wonderful person, etc - all total and complete lies as some of them are actual eyewitnesses to my abuse.
in his sworn statement, he says that jws do not disfellowship, do not shun, and that i am not disfellowshipped, but that all my "friends" won't talk to me because it is their choice.
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AlanF
JWs are notorious for lying in court. What they're doing to you, they do all the time. They rely on the ignorance of opposing attorneys and judges to let them get away with it.
You should try to present to the court clear statements from their own literature about disfellowshipping. If you can manage to discredit the Watchtower attorney and your husband's witnesses with this material, you'll have accomplished a great deal.
Much of the reason the Society will appoint its own attorneys to cover cases where disfellowshipping and shunning are issues is that they don't want to lose a case and have a precedent set. That's why they claim that the shunning is done on an individual basis. Were this institutional policy of shunning to be used to win a case against them, it would open up a flood of new lawsuits.
AlanF
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537
evolution or creation? lets talk...
by Sam87 inok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?
(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .
hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .
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AlanF
proplog2 said:
: Just yesterday I saw God forming a human out the dust of the ground. Too bad no one else was around to see it.
LOL!
Just yesterday a tree fell in the forest near where I live, but there was no sound because no one was around to hear it.
AlanF
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537
evolution or creation? lets talk...
by Sam87 inok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?
(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .
hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .
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AlanF
TopHat said:
: Shows you how little you know......I HAVE posted a few of what I have read although not all.
I don't believe you. Post links to prove your claim. If you don't, you'll demonstrate your laziness.
AlanF
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33
Your opinion: Are those raised as Witnesses more likely to end up godless?
by under_believer inwas thinking about this the other day and wanted to get your (yes: your) opinion.
i find myself slipping farther and farther down the agnostic scale in my thinking--it's possible that i'll end up an atheist.
my suspicion is that because i was raised being taught that all other religions are false, that i came to the conclusion that if the witnesses don't have "the truth" then nobody does.
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AlanF
I don't think it's possible to generalize. I know plenty of ex-JWs who have gone in all possible directions, no matter if they were raised in the cult or converted.
For me, having been raised a JW, once I began to question them it wasn't that difficult to turn the skeptical eye I had been taught to have of other religions back on the JWs themselves. They came out poorly. And of course, once one begins questioning basic assumptions learned in childhood, where does one stop? The existence of God is up for grabs, for example, and once one really begins looking into such things, one might well begin to see the huge flaws in the whole business of religion. Once one does that, one's entire worldview will probably change drastically. At this point, I'm with Richard Dawkins -- an agnostic with leanings toward strong atheism. Of course, I'm always open to new evidence.
AlanF
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537
evolution or creation? lets talk...
by Sam87 inok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?
(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .
hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .
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AlanF
Alright, whyizit and TopHat, let me demonstrate your wilfull ignorance: list the titles and authors of the books you've read on evolution and creation.
I'm pretty sure you'll refuse to do this, though, because I strongly doubt that you've ever read anything other than pro-creation literature -- and not even 'technical' creation literature at that. You won't want to embarass yourselves by showing how little you've actually explored these subjects.
On the other hand, I've read tons of material in favor of both evolution and creation, and concerning the controversies about these subjects. I have several hundred books on these subjects and am quite familiar with their contents. I've read all of Phillip Johnson's books, several of William Dembski's, Michael Behe's, many of Henry Morris's (do you even know who these people are?), and a great many others who are looked on as lights in the creation movement. I can detail the arguments they make in favor of creation, and I can refute them all. Can you do the converse with respect to arguments in favor of evolution? I think not. Prove me wrong if you dare.
I suspect that your replies, if any, will be repetitions of the meaningless whining you've engaged in to this point.
AlanF
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537
evolution or creation? lets talk...
by Sam87 inok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?
(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .
hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .
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AlanF
I've ceased being surprised by the willfull and gross ignorance displayed by most creation believers. It's sometimes amusing, but more often just sad. Ex-JWs who jump directly from the JW cult into some creationist belief system are doing no more than switching cults.
AlanF