What does Ab stand for?
A month in the Hebrew calendar. Also transliterated as "Av".
Alleymom
JoinedPosts by Alleymom
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763
Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?
by Little Bo Peep inhello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
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Alleymom
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763
Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?
by Little Bo Peep inhello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
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Alleymom
Boy, you are a sharp one. Even I did not notice that. I wonder if Alan noticed that too for it just goes to show that life is full of coincidences. Perhaps, it proves that even though I am a devotee of 607, I have a equal fascination with 587, Ah, it is time to meet with Jim Bean methinks.
It sounds as if you and old Jim have already had quite a meeting tonight, my friend! Are you ok?
Marjorie
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763
Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?
by Little Bo Peep inhello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
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Alleymom
:If you turn to page 2 under the heading 2. Chronological solutions,
BTW, heading 2, "Chronological Solutions," starts on page 562, not page 2.
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763
Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?
by Little Bo Peep inhello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
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Alleymom
Response to Scholar
:If you turn to page 2 under the heading 2. Chronological solutions, you will notice that the crux of the matter concerns differing calendrical systems which goes to the heart of the 586/587 debate.
2 . Chronological SolutionsSome scholars, who dealt with the chronology of the monarchic period, recorded both of the dates mentioned without coming down on one side or the other 4 .
Other scholars suggest solving the contradiction between Kings and Jeremiah by positing that the chronologies used in the two books differ: according to one chronological system the year began at Nisan while according to the other system at Tishri 5 . These scholars dealt primarily with the differences between Kings and Jeremiah in regard to the regnal years of Nebuchadnezzar (2 Kgs 25,8; Jer 52,29), but did not discuss the contradictory dates of the Temple's destruction.
4 See the bibliography cited in D.J.A. CLINES, "Regnal Year Reckoning in the Last Years of the Kingdom of Judah", On the Way to the Postmodern. Old Testament Essays 1967-1998 (JSOTSS 292; Sheffield 1998) I, 395-425. See also G. GALIL, The Chronology of the Kings of Israel and Judah (Leiden ? New York 1996) 118, 158.
5 For bibliography see CLINES, "Regnal Year".Neil,
He's saying that the other scholars listed in these bibliographies were concerned with the apparent contradiction between 2 Kings 25:8 and Jer. 52:29 ("nineteenth year" vs. "eighteenth year") rather than the apparent contradiction between 2 kings 25:8 and Jer. 52:12 ("seventh day" vs. "tenth day").
Avioz is interested in the question of which day the temple was destroyed on, not which year.Note his summary of the article:
This article deals with the contradiction between 2 Kgs 25 and Jer 52 regarding the date on which the First Temple was destroyed. Comparing the descriptions of the destruction in Kings and in Jeremiah shows that the two descriptions were borrowed from a common third source. In our view, this common third source is better preserved in Jeremiah 52 than in 2 Kings 25. We therefore deduce that Jeremiah 52 preserves the more exact date of the Temple's destruction: the tenth of Ab.
He doesn't even mention 586 or 587 in the summary, because that's not what his article is about. His article is about whether the Temple was destroyed on the tenth of Ab or the seventh of Ab.
Incidentally, can you tell me what the WTS position is on that question? Thank you.
Marjorie
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763
Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?
by Little Bo Peep inhello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
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Alleymom
Scholar
Post 587 of 587A special number, to be sure!
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763
Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?
by Little Bo Peep inhello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
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Alleymom
Response to Scholar's message #587 to Alan ---
As usual I have to baby you and hold your hand. The jounal Biblica is available online and you only need to key in 2003. However, let me warn you that if you wish to go down the road of solving the knotty problem of 586/7 you will need to much further reading of the subject, do not rely just on the most recent articles because this subjject has more needles than a porcupine.
Since the Biblica article is talking about whether the Temple was destroyed on the seventh day of the month or the tenth day of the month, then, yes, I would agree that one would have to do further reading if one had any interest in the 586/7 problem.
Marjorie
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763
Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?
by Little Bo Peep inhello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
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Alleymom
Neil --
Have you actually read Avioz's article?
It starts out " When was the first Temple destroyed, according to the Bible? We find two contradictory answers to this question, one in 2 Kgs 25,7-8, and the other in Jer 52,12. "
He then quotes those two passages:
Jer 52,12-13 In the fifth month, on the tenth day of the month,
which was the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadrezzar,
king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan ... burned the house2 Kgs 25,8-9
In the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month,
which was the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar,
king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan ... burned the houseNeil, the article is about whether the Temple was destroyed on the tenth day of the month or the seventh day of the month.
Marjorie
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763
Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?
by Little Bo Peep inhello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
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Alleymom
Response to Scholar's post #581
[...] it was only just a few months earlier that another study was published in the journal Biblica by Michael Avioz on the same subject of 'When Was the First Temple Destroyed, According to the Bible'. The author of this study concludes that "It seems that the contradiction between the books of Kings and Jeremiah regarding the date of the First Temple's destruction cannot be resolved either by textual emendation or by chronological sol.utions'
Neil --
You left out the final two sentences of Avioz's concluding paragraph.
It seems that the contradiction between the books of Kings and Jeremiah regarding the date of the First Temple's destruction cannot be resolved either by textual emendation or by chronological solutions. We hold that there is no point in trying to harmonize these contradictory dates, and that only one of the dates should be regarded as ancient. This date, according to our view, is the tenth of Ab, as is written in Jeremiah 52 Michael Avioz. "When Was the First Temple Destroyed, According to the Bible?" Biblica 84 (2003) 562-565
Marjorie -
763
Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?
by Little Bo Peep inhello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
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Alleymom
The Avioz article is available online.
- http://www.bsw.org/project/biblica/bibli84.html
- Michael AVIOZ, "When Was the First Temple Destroyed, According to the Bible?" Biblica 84(2003) 562-565. This article deals with the contradiction between 2 Kgs 25 and Jer 52 regarding the date on which the First Temple was destroyed. Comparing the descriptions of the destruction in Kings and in Jeremiah shows that the two descriptions were borrowed from a common third source. In our view, this common third source is better preserved in Jeremiah 52 than in 2 Kings 25. We therefore deduce that Jeremiah 52 preserves the more exact date of the Temple?s destruction: the tenth of Ab. This claim is based on the fact that the description of the destruction in Kings is in any case truncated, and is therefore likely that it contains the textual corruptions as opposed to Jeremiah.
Marjorie
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763
Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?
by Little Bo Peep inhello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.
i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.
i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.
-
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Alleymom
Since we've been discussing the Hebrew words zeh and hu', I thought now would be a great time to post the following take-off on Abbott & Costello's famous "Who's on First?" dialogue. ABBOTT & COSTELLO LEARN HEBREW by Rabbi Jack Moline
ABBOTT: I see you're here for your Hebrew lesson.
COSTELLO: I'm ready to learn.
A: Now, the first thing you must understand is that Hebrew and English have many words which sound alike, but they do not mean the same thing.
C: Sure, I understand.
A: Now, don't be too quick to say that.
C: How stupid do you think I am - don't answer that. It's simple - some words in Hebrew sound like words in English, but they don't mean the same.
A: Precisely.
C: We have that word in English, too. What does it mean in Hebrew?
A: No, no. Precisely is an English word.
C: I didn't come here to learn English, I came to learn Hebrew. So make with the Hebrew.
A: Fine. Let's start with mee.
C: You.
A: No, mee.
C: Fine, we'll start with you.
A: No, we'll start with mee.
C: Okay, have it your way.
A: Now, mee is who.
C: You is Abbott.
A: No, no, no. Mee is who.
C: You is Abbott.
A: You don't understand.
C: I don't understand? Did you just say me is who?
A: Yes I did. Mee is who.
C: You is Abbott.
A: No, you misunderstand what I am saying. Tell me about mee.
C: Well, you're a nice enough guy.
A: No, no. Tell me about mee!
C: Who?
A: Precisely.
C: Precisely what?
A: Precisely who.
C: It's precisely whom!
A: No, mee is who.
C: Don't start that again - go on to something else.
A: All right. Hu is he.
C: Who is he?
A: Yes.
C: I don't know. Who is he?
A: Sure you do. You just said it.
C: I just said what?
A: Hu is he.
C: Who is he?
A: Precisely.
C: Again with the precisely! Precisely who?
A: No, precisely he.
C: Precisely he? Who is he?
A: Precisely!
C: And what about me?
A: Who.
C : me, me, me!
A : Who, who, who!
C : What are you, an owl? Me! Who is me?
A : No, hu is he!
C: I don't know, maybe he is me!
A: No, hee is she!
C: (STARE AT ABBOTT) Do his parents know about this?
A: About what?
C: About her!
A: What about her?
C: That she is he!
A: No, you've got it wrong - hee is she!
C:' Then who is he?
A: Precisely!
C: Who?
A: He!
C: Me?
A: Who!
C: He?
A; She!
C: Who is she?
A: No, hu is he.
C: I don't care who is he, I want to know who is she?
A: No, that's not right.
C: How can it not be right? I said it. I was standing here when I said it, and I know me.
A: Who.
C: Who?
A: Precisely!
C: Me! Me is that he you are talking about! He is me!
A: No, hee is she!
C: Wait a Minute, wait a minute! I'm trying to learn a little Hebrew, and now I can't even speak English. Let me review.
A: Go ahead.
C: Now first You want to know me is who.
A: Correct.
C: And then you say who is he.
A: Absolutely.
C: And then you tell me he is she.
A & C: Precisely!
C : Now look at this logically. If me is who, and who is he, and he is she, don't it stand to reason that me is she?
A: Who?
C: She!
A: That is he!
C: Who is he?
A & C: Precisely!
C: I have just about had it. You have me confused I want to go home. You know what I want? Ma!
A: What.
C I said Ma.
A: What.
Q: What are you, deaf? I want Ma!
A: What!
C: Not what, who!
A: He!
C: Not he! Ma is not he!
A: Of course not! Hu is he!
C I don't know. I don't know. I don't care. I don't care who is he, he is she, me is who, ma is what. I just want to go home now and play with my dog.
A: Fish.
C Fish?
A: Dag is fish.
C: That's all, I'm outa here.============
If you didn't get it, read this and then try it again. Hebrew word pronounced "who" = English word "he" Hebrew word pronounced "mee" = English word "who" Hebrew word pronounced "hee" = English word "she" Hebrew word pronounced "ma" = English word "what" Hebrew word pronounced "dag" = English word "fish"