Alleymom

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Posts by Alleymom

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  22

  Washington Post -- Rev. "Jellyfish" R...

  by Alleymom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  although i am pretty new to this board, i've been reading about jw issues for a long time, around 13 years.

  i have an old washington post article in my files, from may 4,1906, that i have never seen anywhere on the internet.. the article is titled "rev.

  jellyfish russell" and it is a very sarcastic commentary on russell's infamous jellyfish statement, made during his court trial for divorce.. i copied the article from microfilm in a university library, and unfortunately it does have scratch marks, but the words are quite plain.. last week when i was doing an altavista search i came across one of tom tallyman's webpages.

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  Alleymom

  Hmmm, I'm at the library right now, and I just found a reference to a court case
  in which Russell sued the Washington Post for libel and won.

  I'll post more info when I get home.

  Marjorie
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  22

  Washington Post -- Rev. "Jellyfish" R...

  by Alleymom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  although i am pretty new to this board, i've been reading about jw issues for a long time, around 13 years.

  i have an old washington post article in my files, from may 4,1906, that i have never seen anywhere on the internet.. the article is titled "rev.

  jellyfish russell" and it is a very sarcastic commentary on russell's infamous jellyfish statement, made during his court trial for divorce.. i copied the article from microfilm in a university library, and unfortunately it does have scratch marks, but the words are quite plain.. last week when i was doing an altavista search i came across one of tom tallyman's webpages.

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  Alleymom

  Justin --

  his belief in the "restitution of all things" almost amounted to a belief in universal salvation, if not quite so, compared to the WT's Armageddon today

  Indeed, that is one of the doctrines which the Bible Students list when they discuss the differences between them and modern JW's.

  I wonder if the only concern is an objectively historical one by tossing it to us XJWs

  Well, Justin, I've been sitting on this for many years, and I've never seen anyone put it up on the internet. As to tossing it to the xJW's, well, who else is interested in Russell history? The Bible Students? If I gave it to them, it would surely be buried.

  Now I cheerfully admit that giving it to Tallyman was like adding fuel to the fire <g>, but although we have different approaches (I'm kind of the prissy Madame Librarian type) I think there is definitely a place for his kind of wacky humor. I've probably been around teenagers too long and they've corrupted me <g>, but Tallyman's stuff makes me laugh. That doesn't mean you have to choose to send a JW friend to his site, but, hey, a little laughter is a good thing. I gave it to him because his site is one of the few that I turned up when I was trying to find more information on the court case.

  Didn't it make you smile at ALL?

  Cheers,
  Marjorie
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  22

  Washington Post -- Rev. "Jellyfish" R...

  by Alleymom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  although i am pretty new to this board, i've been reading about jw issues for a long time, around 13 years.

  i have an old washington post article in my files, from may 4,1906, that i have never seen anywhere on the internet.. the article is titled "rev.

  jellyfish russell" and it is a very sarcastic commentary on russell's infamous jellyfish statement, made during his court trial for divorce.. i copied the article from microfilm in a university library, and unfortunately it does have scratch marks, but the words are quite plain.. last week when i was doing an altavista search i came across one of tom tallyman's webpages.

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  Alleymom

  I was just looking at one of the Bible Students' sites.
  They claim that Russell took the stand the next day and denied ever making the jellyfish remark. Since I have only seen partial transcripts of the court trial, I do not know whether or not this is true.

  http://www.pastor-russell.com/life/immoral1.html

  Marjorie
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  22

  Washington Post -- Rev. "Jellyfish" R...

  by Alleymom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  although i am pretty new to this board, i've been reading about jw issues for a long time, around 13 years.

  i have an old washington post article in my files, from may 4,1906, that i have never seen anywhere on the internet.. the article is titled "rev.

  jellyfish russell" and it is a very sarcastic commentary on russell's infamous jellyfish statement, made during his court trial for divorce.. i copied the article from microfilm in a university library, and unfortunately it does have scratch marks, but the words are quite plain.. last week when i was doing an altavista search i came across one of tom tallyman's webpages.

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  Alleymom

  Dungbeetle --

  And Maria Russell could not help but watch the man she loved deteriorate from an intelligent being to a complete religious fanatic reduced to measuring the Great Pyramid of Gaza for signs and portents of the future---since God had stopped talking to him.

  Maria tried to save him. She tried to do more of the writing, and have him do more of the traveling. He would have none of it. He turned on her finally ---as all religious fanatics do when thwarted,and medically undiagnosed and untreated. For a complete study of no less than three personality disorders, one only need to read the Studies in the Scriptures 3, 4, and 5 and 6.

  Powerfully and compassionately written! What a contrast between your depiction of Maria and the one in the Proclaimers book, where she is absolutely villified.

  I've been looking for more information on Russell's belief that he was the man with an inkhorn in Ezekiel 9. That's an extremely disturbing comparison for someone to make, IMO.

  The man with the inkhorn is told to "go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."

  And then the others are told to "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark..."

  If Russell actually believed THAT is what he was called to be, it's a chilling image.

  Thanks,
  Marjorie
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  22

  Washington Post -- Rev. "Jellyfish" R...

  by Alleymom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  although i am pretty new to this board, i've been reading about jw issues for a long time, around 13 years.

  i have an old washington post article in my files, from may 4,1906, that i have never seen anywhere on the internet.. the article is titled "rev.

  jellyfish russell" and it is a very sarcastic commentary on russell's infamous jellyfish statement, made during his court trial for divorce.. i copied the article from microfilm in a university library, and unfortunately it does have scratch marks, but the words are quite plain.. last week when i was doing an altavista search i came across one of tom tallyman's webpages.

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  Alleymom

  Messenger --

  Although the testimony was struck from the record because the events occurred prior to the dates being considered in the case, it should be noted (as was pointed out to me just now by Tom Tally), that the statements WERE made UNDER OATH.

  A. One evening I spent the evening downstairs, and our library and our bedroom were next to each other upstairs on the second flour, and I spent the evening downstairs reading, and I went upstairs about ten o’clock to my room, and I supposed that he was either in the library or had retired, and when I went up there I found that he was in neither place, and I stepped out in the hall, and I found that he was in his night robe, sitting beside Miss Ball’s bed and she was in bed. On other occasions I found him going in there and I found she called him in and said she wasn’t well and wanted him in, and I objected to this, and I said that it was highly improper, and I said "We have people about the house, and what kind of a name will be attached to this house if you do that kind of thing?" and he got angry.

  Q. You state that you found him doing this at other times. How often after that?

  A. I found him a number of times, I don’t remember how often.

  Q. In her room?

  A. Yes, sir. And I found him in the servants girl’s room as well, and I found him locked in the servant girl’s room.

  Q. Did he make any explanation why he was in the girl’s room?

  A. No, he did not; he just got angry.

  Q. What did you say to him about this conduct, and what did he say?

  A. I said to him, "We have a great work on our hands," and I said, "in this work you and I have to walk very circumspectly before the world, and if you are going to do things like this, what will happen? Suppose you are all right, don’t you suppose people will talk about things like this?" and I said, "I am not satisfied with it," and he said he wasn’t going to be ruled by me. But I felt distressed about that.

  
  It would be interesting to know whether there is any record of Rose Ball's reaction to the court case. I understand that she married E.C.Henninges, who was Australian Branch Manager of the International Bible Students Association. He was part of the big split that occurred in 1908. So maybe Rose was in Australia at the time of the court case.

  I'd like to see contemporary Pittsburgh newspapers from the time of the trial, but the university library I used to get the Washington Post article doesn't have any Pittsburgh papers from that long ago.

  Regards,
  Marjorie
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  22

  Washington Post -- Rev. "Jellyfish" R...

  by Alleymom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  although i am pretty new to this board, i've been reading about jw issues for a long time, around 13 years.

  i have an old washington post article in my files, from may 4,1906, that i have never seen anywhere on the internet.. the article is titled "rev.

  jellyfish russell" and it is a very sarcastic commentary on russell's infamous jellyfish statement, made during his court trial for divorce.. i copied the article from microfilm in a university library, and unfortunately it does have scratch marks, but the words are quite plain.. last week when i was doing an altavista search i came across one of tom tallyman's webpages.

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  Alleymom

  Justin --

  Thanks for the link; for a copy of the court transcript that doesn't have quite so many typos, see:

  http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/list7_3.html

  You may be right that the Washington Post erred in saying the jellyfish remark was repeated during the opening statement; they certainly admit very freely that they have not received all the details of the case. However, the portion of the transcript given at those websites does not include the opening statement, so it is impossible to be certain. It would be interesting to see how the trial was covered in contemporary Pittsburgh newspapers.

  I feel there's enough to clobber the WT with, without digging up old Russell scandals that may or may not be true.

  No one has to use this information to "clobber" the WT. Personally, I feel that old newspaper articles like this are part of the historical record and should be preserved, especially since relatively few libraries maintain newspaper archives that go back that far. Since I have never seen the Washington Post article anywhere on the internet, I decided to make it public.

  Interestingly enough, in the many years that JW's have been visiting our home, it is the Russell material that has provoked the strongest visible reaction. Last time, one of the men couldn't believe the photos I handed him of Russell's gravesite. He kept interrupting his partner (who was giving my husband a standard JW spiel) and exclaiming, "Look at this!"

  Regards,
  Marjorie
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  7

  From Tallymans "Gallery":

  by sf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  < http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/weep_33.html.

  if man was supposedly created in gods image, then.....holy krap...we're all doomed.-skallywagger

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  Alleymom

  Hi, SF ---

  Since I'm new here, I want to make sure that I am not out of line for reposting the link you gave to the jellyfish page.

  I sent the Washington Post article to Tom a few days ago, and I think the page he came up with deserves to be seen by more people, so I just reposted the link in a new thread.

  Are you ok with that?

  "Newbie" Marjorie
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  22

  Washington Post -- Rev. "Jellyfish" R...

  by Alleymom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  although i am pretty new to this board, i've been reading about jw issues for a long time, around 13 years.

  i have an old washington post article in my files, from may 4,1906, that i have never seen anywhere on the internet.. the article is titled "rev.

  jellyfish russell" and it is a very sarcastic commentary on russell's infamous jellyfish statement, made during his court trial for divorce.. i copied the article from microfilm in a university library, and unfortunately it does have scratch marks, but the words are quite plain.. last week when i was doing an altavista search i came across one of tom tallyman's webpages.

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  Alleymom

  Hi ---

  Although I am pretty new to this board, I've been reading about JW issues for a long time, around 13 years. I have an old Washington Post article in my files, from May 4,1906, that I have never seen anywhere on the internet.

  The article is titled "Rev. Jellyfish Russell" and it is a very sarcastic commentary on Russell's infamous jellyfish statement, made during his court trial for divorce.

  I copied the article from microfilm in a university library, and unfortunately it does have scratch marks, but the words are quite plain.

  Last week when I was doing an altavista search I came across one of Tom Tallyman's webpages. I decided to send him my scan of the Washington Post article. With his wacky sense of humor, I knew he'd have a good time with the jellyfish theme.

  If you're interested in seeing what Tom came up with, Sf posted a link to the jellyfish article in the Tallyman Gallery thread:
  http://www.intrex.net/talley/JellFish.html

  I think it's been lost in the traffic here on this busy board, so I am reposting it, since I think Tom's creative genius deserves a wider audience.

  The Post obviously had a different style and tone back in the early part of the 20th century. This would be considered pretty heavy-handed sarcasm today. The Proclaimers book refers to "charges designed to make it appear that he [Russell] was an immoral man" in in the chapter on hateful persecution ("Objects of Hatred by All Nations", see pp. 645-646.) I am sure they must be alluding to the jellyfish statement and the testimony concerning Rose Ball. The Proclaimers book makes a big deal of the fact that Russell never actually committed adultery. But upon reading the Post article and the court testimony, it's clear that Russell did make a bizarre statement comparing himself to a jellyfish.

  The sad thing is that the Post's tongue-in-cheek comments about other adventurous gentlemen in the congregation aspiring to be jellyfish, too, seems almost prescient in light of the sexual abuse cases which have come to light.

  Here is the text of the article:

  The Washington Post: Friday, May 4, 1906.
  The Rev. Jellyfish Russell

  We seem to have lost the trail of that Pittsburg divorce suit in which the Rev. Charles T. Russell has been figuring as a defendant. The reports do not reach us as regularly as we could wish. We have missed a great many important details, therefore, and indeed, we now fear that the straight story, complete from first to last, will never come our way.

  This is to be regretted on general grounds, and then particularly because the chronicle began so entertainingly and with such promise of useful revelation as the facts developed. When the Rev. Charles T. Russell made the opening statement in his own defense he riveted the attention of the entire reading public. “I am like a jellyfish, “said the reverend culprit; “I float all around and I touch this one and that one, and if they respond, I embrace them.” Who will deny that this alluring overture opens many visas to the disciples of psychical research? The Rev. Russell is the founder of a new faith. He calls his congregation the “Russellites.” He doesn’t believe there is any hell except right here on earth, and this doctrine he preaches to a very zealous and devoted congregation. We gather, too, that he monopolizes the jellyfish business in his capacity as head of the church. He floats around among the faithful, touching them here and there. Those who respond he promptly embraces. When they don’t respond, that is, presumably, his idea of hell.

  As we have already explained, the story has not come to us consecutively. It happens, therefore, that we have been compelled to put two and two together. The Rev. Russell says he’s like a jellyfish; that he floats about, touching his lady parishioners whenever he gets near enough, and that when they “respond” –whatever that may mean—he embraces. He adds that the only hell he knows of or believes in is a strictly earthly hell, from which we conclude that he finds devils only among those who do not “respond” when touched. The particular case which precipitated the divorce suit appears not to have been at all hellish. In that instance the jellyfish touched one Rose Ball, who must have “responded” very promptly, since Mrs. Marie Frances Russell, the plaintiff in the divorce suit, was an eyewitness to the embrace which followed.

  But, upon the whole, this new faith, “the Russellite,” seems to possess a great many of the elements of popularity. Sooner or later, of course, the higher officials of the church, and perhaps a few of the more adventurous gentlemen of the congregation may conclude that with a little practice they might become pretty active jellyfish themselves, and that would inevitably lead to dissension. For the present, however, we are inclined to mark up the Russellite propaganda as a winner. Of course, it’s a pity that the jellyfish’s wife came on the scene just at the critical moment. These accidents will occur, however, even in the most carefully arranged schemes of exaltation. The great truth remains that the Rev. Jellyfish Russell has opened up a mighty attractive pathway to the higher life, and that barring unforeseen catastrophes he will get there with enviable frequency.

  
  Marjorie Alley
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  8

  Letter to editor

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the following letter was emailed to me from a person who sent it to an arizona newspaper.. silentlambs.

  to the editor:.

  survivors of sexual abuse need support and validation to heal.

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  Alleymom

  Dear Mr. Bowen --

  I just wanted to let you know that I have been posting information about silentlambs and the upcoming Dateline program on the JW section of Compuserve's Religion Forum. Needless to say, the JW reaction has been "kill the messenger"; others, however, have responded favorably.

  One JW has been insistent that in his 20+ years in the organization any cases of sexual abuse have been handled quickly and appropriately. He insists that the idea that the Society has engaged in any kind of coverup of pedophilia is "a sick joke".

  I wanted to let you know that I have posted information from your site (properly credited, of course!). In addition, I have told this particular Witness that you are not DA'd or DF'd and you have not been called before a judicial committee, so he should feel free to read your site.

  You and your family have been in my prayers. I applaud your Luther-like courage ("Here I stand --- I can do no other.")

  Love in Christ,
  Marjorie Alley
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  90

  I need you tonight my friends,Please

  by Valentine in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this danny pearl thing has brought home memories of murder to me(my 1st husband) please,please.......just say you care right now-nothing else.......please.i'm having a real emotional night...i had no one before.............t. todays affirmation:.

  the complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working.

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  Alleymom

  just say you care right now-nothing else.......please

  You don't know me (I am pretty new here), but I care and I am holding you up in prayer right now.

  Love,
  Marjorie