Posts by toreador

12

Meditation still evil?

by Bryan in

i remember, it seems, years ago the society inc. taught that meditating allowed satan into your mind.

yoga was bad!

i learned after a fall in '92, with the help of a bio feedback dr., that with meditation i could adjust my body temperature, heart rate and blood pressure.

E-watchman is not disfellowshipped!?

by Noumenon in

i note that e-watchman has just confirmed that he is not disfellowshipped, despite running an 'apostate' website and having sent 1000's of letters around the us, canada, and bethels around the world.

this from his latest mailbag questions and answers:.

"as for any judicial action taken against me, no, there was none.

toreador

It sounds like double standards to me!

16

Does Jehovah God Mean Anything To You Any Longer???

by minimus in

jw
friends

i believe many here do not believe in "jehovah god" any longer.

are you in that category (yet)?

If you believe in a God such as you do, why do you pray at all to him? What do you expect by way of answer or action on his/her part. What you said about the earth having a conciense is really out there IMO.

Toreador

5

kerry gets a make over for the debates

by kilroy2 in

.

kerry gets a make over to make him look normal, ompa de doo.

.

toreador

Who is the other dude in the pic above?

23

Who Do You Like Better Jay Leno or Conan O'Brien???

by minimus in

jw
friends

i love leno but i do think conan is funny too.

jay is funnier----even better than david letterman.

what do you think?

toreador

Jay and Conan are on different wavelengths when it comes to funny. I like Jay better but maybe in five years Conan will change. Dont get me wrong Conan is funny in his own sort of way.

109

An Apology Regarding "The Voice"...

by AGuest in

to the household of god that is israel... and all those who go with them... may you have peace!.

i have been coming here for some time (although not in recent months, my sincere apologies) to share with you various truths that i have received from the truth.

for some of you, there has been little or no doubt as to the "authority" by which i share such things, the true source of such understandings: i have not refrained from confessing to you time and again that they are not mine, but are what has been given me by my lord, jaheshua mischajah, son and christ of the most holy one of israel, the god of abraham, isaac and jacob, whose name is jah or armies.

toreador

Peace to you!

You totally missed my point

Perhaps, but if so it was not due to your writing: you write just fine!. So, let's try again, shall we?

My point was the "way" animals were sacrificed "was" (sic) as I mentioned.

Yes, I got that. And my point was that my Lord was not sacrificed in the "way" animals were... for a reason. Maybe it was me who wasn't very clear...

If Jesus were to have been sacrificed the way Jehovah had the animals sacrificed it would have been as I described it; his throat slit and then his body burned on the altar by his disciples, i.e. his followers.

Yes. IF...

This way although gruesome, it would have been far better than the treatment and way of death he got.

YES!!! It would have been FAR more merciful!! Yes??! That was the point, dear Tor... that my Lord wasn't even afforded the mercy shown mere beasts... by his fellow humans and "spiritual" brothers (or so they would have labeled themselves). THAT's... the point! Yes, I agree it would have been FAR more merciful! And HOW is God full of mercy again. I see NO mercy in the way it was carried out. The most merciful way would have been for Jesus followers to have slit his throat and burned his body on the alter and you yourself admitted that we could NOT do this. How can God is a better question?

The proper way to do it had we lived back then was for you and I, if we were James and John, was to do the deed as I described; slit his throat and burn his body on the altar as a sacrifice for our sins. I dont believe I could have done that, could you???

Of COURSE not! And that is the very reason WHY the disciples weren't called TO do it. It was done... from start to finish (meaning, including his trumped up trial)... by those who WOULD commit an unmerciful act, even on a fellow human being... even on the Son of God.

God had him tortured and maimed by people who didnt even believe in him,

NO! God... did NOT have him tortured and maimed! God... let him be handed OVER to a tortuous and maimful people in that He didn't interfere. God knew what was in the heart of mankind, just as Socrates knew what was in the heart of those who sentenced/executed him. They could AT ANY TIME... have said, "Uh-uh, no, not me... I ain't gonna have NO parts in this... it's wrong... totally wrong... evil." But did they? Nope. They actually got some kind of sick joy out of it... vowing that they even wanted the RESPONSIBILITY for it to come upon their own children. (Shaking head...)

does Gods way seem more reasonable?

To let a blood thirsty group of hypocrites commit such a heinous and unmerciful act against His one Son... for the sake of His others... and all... including those who committed the act? I have to say, dear Toreador... if that's what it TOOK... then yes... the "way"... was reasonable.

Yet this is what God exacted from him.

Okay, here is where I must expound to you the way of the Truth "more accurately:" the price was not exacted by God - it was exacted... by Death! Death... was/is the one who is never satisfied! Adam made a deal... on behalf of ALL of his offspring... and sold HIS soul... and theirs... TO Death. God... out of LOVE.. paid the ONLY "price" Death would accept: His only-begotten Son. GOD... did not hold mankind ransom; DEATH did. And God.. PAID the ransom... with the sacrifice of His Son. And Death THOUGHT he would have that Son... forever. But God did NOT leave him to Death... but gave him the "keys" to the REALM of Death... so that it could not hold him. Thus, although Death, through his high priest, the one called Satan and Devil, thought he'd cheated God, GOD... by means of HIS High Priest, my Lord and Master, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... cheated Death! So that by means of him, not only does Death not have a hold on THAT One... but not on any who BELONG to that One. You speak of death as if it was a living breathing entity that has to satisfied. That doesnt make a lick of sense to me. According to you God was the one who set the price. God is the one who set the price. You admitted neither you nor I could have killed Jesus yet that is what God did in effect. He set the price and he is the one who allowed it to be carried through to the extent that he did. If GOd were as all powerfull as you believe him to be and if I were God I dont believe I could allow such a heinous act to be carried out against an innocent man. It is unthinkable.

Please do not let your mind and heart be misled by the FALSE propoganda of "religion"... particularly the WTBTS. They haven't a CLUE as to what took place regarding this matter, before the founding of the world... or after.

I find it hard to reconcile a God who would do such a thing.

Well, of course, if your mind and heart are clearly convinced that that is what took place. And that is the vocation of the Adversary: to sent false prophets and false christs into the earth... to TEACH you such melarkey... so as to mislead, if possible... EVEN THE CHOSEN ONES.

This is the same God who wanted the killing and sacrificing of millions of animals up to that point as well to atone for the original sin they did not commit.

The wage... or price... of sin... is death. God... MERCIFULLY... allowed animals to be substituted for human life in that regard. The animals, who also serve JAH... are even higher than us in this regard because, like my Lord... they go silently... and most often... willingly. Why? Because unlike US... but like my LORD... THEY know that this life is not all there is. THEIR minds are not simply on the things of the earth. God saves man... AND beast. How is that a merciful thing to allow to pay for something they had no part in? To say that animals go willingly to the slaughter is ridiculous. Have you ever been to a slaughter house where they slaughter beef. I dont think so! They know damn well what is going to happen to them and they are terrified!! How can you make such a statement that animals know "this life is not all there is"? Do you also talk to animals? I never seen a gazelle or another animal that willingly offered himself/herself to a lion because he wanted to get to the next life.

If Satan had little satans did someone have to die as a ransom for the sins their father/satan made as well so they could be reconciled to God?

Satan has "little" satans, for the children of the Devil are manifest in he that hates his brother. Satan's blood, however, cannot atone for the sins of his children, as HIS blood... has no value. His "children" then, need only turn to the One whose blood CAN atone for their sins... and be reconciled. It's not hard... and it's not rocket science. It's merely a matter of turning away from what is bad... hatred for one's brother and neighbor... to good... LOVE for one's brother and neighbor... and enemy. Here again you misunderstood what I wrote. I said would "someone" (not satan as he was the one that sinned) have to die for satans children in order for them to not have to die (perhaps another perfect angel)? I never spoke of satans "blood" either as I would assume he would have none. I was merely trying in my inadept way to say in order for it to match Adam sin and Jesus atoning for it, there would in "God's way of doing things" exact a perfect spirit creature to die for Satans children for them to have a chance. BTW I am not shouting at you, I just don't know the proper procedure to keep yours and my comments separate after the initial dialougue while still keeping both our comments intact.

Peace to you Shelby, Toreador

109

An Apology Regarding "The Voice"...

by AGuest in

to the household of god that is israel... and all those who go with them... may you have peace!.

i have been coming here for some time (although not in recent months, my sincere apologies) to share with you various truths that i have received from the truth.

for some of you, there has been little or no doubt as to the "authority" by which i share such things, the true source of such understandings: i have not refrained from confessing to you time and again that they are not mine, but are what has been given me by my lord, jaheshua mischajah, son and christ of the most holy one of israel, the god of abraham, isaac and jacob, whose name is jah or armies.

toreador

Dear Shelby,

I don't recall my Lord's throat being slit. His side pierced, yes... but I believe his throat remained intact. Nor was he burned (they wouldn't have done such a thing anyway, as burning humans was considered something "detestable" to JAH). But my Lord's sacrifice was not in the MANNER of animal sacrifices... in ANY way... so that it was a "much better" offering.

Just a quick note,

You totally missed my point, probably because I dont write as well as I would like. My point was the "way" animals were sacrificed "was" (sic) as I mentioned. If Jesus were to have been sacrificed the way Jehovah had the animals sacrificed it would have been as I described it; his throat slit and then his body burned on the altar by his disciples, i.e. his followers. This way although gruesome, it would have been far better than the treatment and way of death he got. The proper way to do it had we lived back then was for you and I, if we were James and John, was to do the deed as I described; slit his throat and burn his body on the altar as a sacrifice for our sins. I dont believe I could have done that, could you??? God had him tortured and maimed by people who didnt even believe in him, does Gods way seem more reasonable? Yet this is what God exacted from him. I find it hard to reconcile a God who would do such a thing. This is the same God who wanted the killing and sacrificing of millions of animals up to that point as well to atone for the original sin they did not commit.

If Satan had little satans did someone have to die as a ransom for the sins their father/satan made as well so they could be reconciled to God?

Yours truly,

Tor

109

An Apology Regarding "The Voice"...

by AGuest in

to the household of god that is israel... and all those who go with them... may you have peace!.

i have been coming here for some time (although not in recent months, my sincere apologies) to share with you various truths that i have received from the truth.

for some of you, there has been little or no doubt as to the "authority" by which i share such things, the true source of such understandings: i have not refrained from confessing to you time and again that they are not mine, but are what has been given me by my lord, jaheshua mischajah, son and christ of the most holy one of israel, the god of abraham, isaac and jacob, whose name is jah or armies.

toreador

Hello Shelby,

You are not going forget to comment on my last post to you are you?

Tor

109

An Apology Regarding "The Voice"...

by AGuest in

to the household of god that is israel... and all those who go with them... may you have peace!.

i have been coming here for some time (although not in recent months, my sincere apologies) to share with you various truths that i have received from the truth.

for some of you, there has been little or no doubt as to the "authority" by which i share such things, the true source of such understandings: i have not refrained from confessing to you time and again that they are not mine, but are what has been given me by my lord, jaheshua mischajah, son and christ of the most holy one of israel, the god of abraham, isaac and jacob, whose name is jah or armies.

toreador

Minimus, are you saying Farkel is WACKY?

Noooo, you couldn't be.

109

An Apology Regarding "The Voice"...

by AGuest in

to the household of god that is israel... and all those who go with them... may you have peace!.

i have been coming here for some time (although not in recent months, my sincere apologies) to share with you various truths that i have received from the truth.

for some of you, there has been little or no doubt as to the "authority" by which i share such things, the true source of such understandings: i have not refrained from confessing to you time and again that they are not mine, but are what has been given me by my lord, jaheshua mischajah, son and christ of the most holy one of israel, the god of abraham, isaac and jacob, whose name is jah or armies.

toreador

Thank you for your reply Shelby,

Would it have been alright with Jehovah if the pagan nations surrounding the Israelites killed animals as sacrifices NOT knowing they were making sacrifices FOR the Israelites NOT even KNOWING they were doing it for the Israelites and themselves?

As you restated what I said:

that such ones didn?t say what you suggest because they didn?t KNOW he was a sacrifice at all? and certainly not for them as well as for ALL mankind.

It just doesnt make sense that pagans in effect made a sacrifice without even knowing it. Although I would suppose if you (Shelby) and I were there, lets say you were James and I were John were the ones to make the sacrifice of Jesus to Jehovah, I would dare say you and I would be unable to slit Jesus throat and burn his body up as a sacrifice to Jehovah, but strange as it may seem Jehovah not only wanted Jesus to be sacrificed but went further in allowing him to be sacrificed in a far more grotesque and inhumane manner.

The beheadings over in Iraq carried on by barbarians pale in comparison to what Jehovah allowed to happen to his son Jesus. If you and I could not allow ourselves to kill an innocent human to atone for our sins how is it that Jehovah allowed it and in effect condoned it? Could you kill one of your kids for the sins another one of your kids committed? This just doesnt mesh with a God of love.

The way that Jesus died was just pure barbaric and inhumane torture to death. I say a better way would have been for Jesus to have lived to a ripe old age and then he could have sacrificed himself by his own way of choosing and then for God to have taken him back to heaven.

Yours truly and peace to you as well,

Toreador

PS. I am still thinking about all those millions of poor animals sacrificed to death in the 4000 plus years prior to Jesus to temporarily atone for their ancestors, Adam and Eve, eating some forbidden fruit.