Posts by maksutov

17

A note on the Watchtowers property investments

by Saintbertholdt in

about a year ago there was a thread regarding the 2008 watchtower bible and tract society of new yorks tax return.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/287098/2008-watchtower-income-tax-return?page=1.

a reference was made to the provictor property fund iv which was listed as their primary alternate business activity.. turns out that at that time 75% of the chrysler building was owned by the provictor property fund iv until it was sold during that year.. http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/09/news/international/chrysler_building/?postversion=2008070913.

just thought you should know :).

maksutov

Here is the relevant section that mentions that 7% figure:

JPMORGANLIQUID ASSETS MONEY MARKET FUND
INSTITUTIONAL
WATCHTOWERBIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY OF PENNSYLVANIA
ATTNTREASURERS OFFICE DOMESTIC CASH MANAGEMENT
25COLUMBIA HTS
BROOKLYNNY 11201-1300
Record
7.337%
JPMORGANLIQUID ASSETS MONEY MARKET FUND
INSTITUTIONAL

JPMORGAN TRUST CO NA

PAUL G ALLEN—COLLATERAL ACCOUNT

ATTN FUND OPERATIONS 3/OPS3

500 STANTON CHRISTIANA ROAD

NEWARK DE 19713-2107

Record
7.229%
JPMORGANLIQUID ASSETS MONEY MARKET FUND
INSTITUTIONAL
AGILENTTECHNOLOGIES
ATTNTREASURY ACCOUNTING DEPT
PLOT NO90 D SECTOR 18
UDYOGVIHAR
GURGAON122015
HARRYANAINDIA
Record
6.020%
JPMORGANLIQUID ASSETS MONEY MARKET FUND
INSTITUTIONAL
SPRINTCORP
ATTNKSOPHF0302-3B372 SUP
CASH OPS
6200SPRINT PKWY
OVERLANDPARK KS 66251-6117
Record
5.516%
JPMORGANLIQUID ASSETS MONEY MARKET FUND
AGENCY

JPMORGAN INVESTOR SERVICES CASH MGMT INVESTMENT SUPPORT

ATTN CASH SWEEP OPERATIONS

14221 DALLAS PARKWAY 2JIP 6TH FL

DALLAS TX 75254-2942

Record
40.207%
JPMORGANLIQUID ASSETS MONEY MARKET FUND
AGENCY
JPMORGANINVESTOR SERVICES CASH MGMT INVESTMENT SUPPORT
ATTNCASH SWEEP OPERATIONS
14221DALLAS PARKWAY 2JIP 6TH FL
DALLASTX 75254-2942
Record
35.324%
JPMORGANLIQUID ASSETS MONEY MARKET FUND
AGENCY
STROOCKSTROOCK & LAVAN LLP
180MAIDEN LANE
NEWYORK NY 10038-4925
Record
8.384%
JPMORGANLIQUID ASSETS MONEY MARKET FUND
PREMIER
JPMORGANINSTITUTIONAL TRUST SERVICES
FBOVARIOUS TRUSTS
ATTNVIRGINIA DELGADO
2001BRYAN TOWER 11TH FLOOR
DALLASTX 75254
Record
58.756%

But if you add up all those percentages, it comes to way more than 100%. So I am guessing it does not mean that each of those parties owns that percentage of the fund. I have no idea what it does mean though!

24

If they go bankrupt, so what?

by maksutov in

it seems likely that the watchtower is worried about its finances, given the downsizing, property schemes, and money-grabs we have been seeing over the last few years.

perhaps they suffered badly from the financial crisis.

for sure, there will be more expenses to come from child abuse payouts.

maksutov

Tenacious: it is Jehovah God who will ultimately manipulate their downfall or expose them for who they really are

Would that it were so, but I'm far from convinced!

Half banana: they may not even tell the bros

Interesting thought - it would be a matter of public record though, so the rank and file would probably find out anyway (the media would report on it, surely). I think more likely that they would spin it as an attack from Satan.

Vidiot: Bankruptcy = no money.
No money = no Watchtower.

Does it though? Perhaps no printed magazine, but an online Watchtower is still feasible even without funds isn't it?

24

If they go bankrupt, so what?

by maksutov in

it seems likely that the watchtower is worried about its finances, given the downsizing, property schemes, and money-grabs we have been seeing over the last few years.

perhaps they suffered badly from the financial crisis.

for sure, there will be more expenses to come from child abuse payouts.

maksutov

OK, so on this thread at least, most people seem to agree that they won't go bankrupt any time soon. But that wasn't what I was asking really! The question is a hypothetical one - what if they did? What would happen next? I'm not normally one for speculating about things that are not likely to happen, but I find this particular question intriguing because for some groups/organisations/companies, bankruptcy is game over - but not, I think, for a religious cult as large as this one.

24

If they go bankrupt, so what?

by maksutov in

it seems likely that the watchtower is worried about its finances, given the downsizing, property schemes, and money-grabs we have been seeing over the last few years.

perhaps they suffered badly from the financial crisis.

for sure, there will be more expenses to come from child abuse payouts.

maksutov

notsurewheretogo: They sold a billion dollars worth of property in the last 10 years...how are they going bankrupt??????????

Sorry if I gave the impression I thought they were going bankrupt - I don't. It is impossible to get an accurate picture of their financial standing, as they don't publish comprehensive figures. However, some ex-JWs seem to be convinced that the org is in serious financial trouble (and there is some evidence to support that view, albeit far from conclusive) - my question is, so what? Even if that's true and they go bankrupt, I don't see it changing much. Just wondering what others thought.

24

If they go bankrupt, so what?

by maksutov in

it seems likely that the watchtower is worried about its finances, given the downsizing, property schemes, and money-grabs we have been seeing over the last few years.

perhaps they suffered badly from the financial crisis.

for sure, there will be more expenses to come from child abuse payouts.

maksutov

It seems likely that the Watchtower is worried about its finances, given the downsizing, property schemes, and money-grabs we have been seeing over the last few years. Perhaps they suffered badly from the financial crisis. For sure, there will be more expenses to come from child abuse payouts. But suppose they do actually go bankrupt, what then?

They have so many different corporations and legal entities, that one could easily imagine one or two going bust and the rest carrying on as normal - insulating themselves from the worst of it, and perhaps even coming back stronger than before, having rid themselves of bad debt. But if that is not possible for some reason, and they genuinely have to sell up the printing presses and property to pay of creditors, will that really mean the end of the religion?

I doubt it. I can run a business from home. I can publish books even though I don't have a printing press. Surely it wouldn't be hard for them to become an 'online religion'? They are already half way there. Each congregation is a separate charity (in the UK at least), and for those that don't own their own hall, or would have to surrender it, the members could probably all chip in to rent a hall or build a new one, or just meet in private homes. They will see it as a sign of the nearness of the end, and might even grow in membership. Depressing, but that's my best guess as to what would happen. Your thoughts?

98

Music buffs.Here we go again. List you're all-time favorite Guitarists

by flipper in

jw
friends

hello ya'll.

was just listening to great guitar music from some of my favorites.

who are your all time favorites?

maksutov

John Williams

Julian Bream

Craig Ogden

Nicola Hall (Godess, hope that's OK, lol)

Steve Vai

Here's me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdfcUR2vBGw

24

Interesting Article: New human link found "Homo Naledi"

by Splash in

haven't read it all yet, but 15 skeletons have been found in south africa, near jo'burg... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11855405/homo-naledi-a-new-species-of-human-discovered-in-a-cave-in-south-africa.html.

maksutov

I think Saintbertholdt was being satirical. At least, I hope so.

13

The Oesophagus of the whale shark and the story of Jonah

by purrpurr in

in the wt's literature it is often theorised that the "great fish" that swallowed jonah was a whale shark.

indeed looking at whale sharks with their wide huge mouths it seems reasonable to think that a human could fit in there.... ... until that is you do any research on it.

while the whales mouth is huge, it's oesophagus however is only a few inches wide.

maksutov

http://marinebio.org/species.asp?id=190: The gullet of Physeter macrocephalus is the largest among cetaceans; it is in fact the only gullet large enough to swallow a human.

...but that is a whale, not a 'big fish'. It is however, the critter shown in the Bible Stories book, swallowing Jonah. The whale shark, as you point out, couldn't do it due to the narrow esophagus: http://www.oceantoursmexico.com/blog/could-a-whaleshark-swallow-a-human/

Among fish, it seems a very large Great White Shark could potentially swallow a human whole. Of course, surviving in the stomach of any creature for 3 days would be physically impossible.

13

The Oesophagus of the whale shark and the story of Jonah

by purrpurr in

in the wt's literature it is often theorised that the "great fish" that swallowed jonah was a whale shark.

indeed looking at whale sharks with their wide huge mouths it seems reasonable to think that a human could fit in there.... ... until that is you do any research on it.

while the whales mouth is huge, it's oesophagus however is only a few inches wide.

maksutov

Makes me wonder - is there any fish or marine mammal that would theoretically be capable of swallowing a man whole?

43

Do you find it hard to be around active JW's now?

by EdenOne in

i do - actually, it's become close to unbearable.. and herein lies the paradox: i tried to fade in the illusion that i might keep contact with family and friends still "in".

was it worth it?

because not only most of them shun me anyways, but i find it almost unbearable to be around them, especially when the cult chit chat kicks in: every cute animal video clip triggers endless comments about glimpses of the future paradise and how "god did it"; those greasy praises to the organization and the governing body; the dumb awe about every jw broadcast and those cheesy music videos; the endless drivel against other religions when one knows perfectly well that we're no better than them; the endless flow of "experiences" of field service or spectacular conversions into "the truth"; the relentless congregation gossip; and so on .... i ask myself: is this why i am fading for ...?

maksutov

Since I was forcibly disassociated, I have found life a bit more peaceful. The constant cult reminders were difficult to cope with before. Now I am p*ssed off about being shunned, but at least I don't have to listen to their drivel any more.