loveis

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Posts by loveis

• 
  14

  BERRY GIRLS' NEW HAMPSHIRE SUPREME COURT APPEAL IS FINALLY SET!!!

  by loveis in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sad saga of the berry girls (holly brewer and heather berry) and their mother, sarah poisson, is well known to most longtime posters here, having been featured prominently on the jw abuse shows on television, notably at length in the ones in the uk (bbc panorama, "suffer the little children", july 2002) and canada (fifth estate, "spiritual shepherds", january 2003).

  the civil suit they brought against the wts in the new hampshire state courts was referred to.

  that suit was going well in pretrial motions and depositions, etc., until it was dealt a serious and potentially fatal setback by a decision made by the judge in june 2003, which was blaste--er, discussed--in these threads: .

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• 

  loveis

  bttt
• 
  14

  BERRY GIRLS' NEW HAMPSHIRE SUPREME COURT APPEAL IS FINALLY SET!!!

  by loveis in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sad saga of the berry girls (holly brewer and heather berry) and their mother, sarah poisson, is well known to most longtime posters here, having been featured prominently on the jw abuse shows on television, notably at length in the ones in the uk (bbc panorama, "suffer the little children", july 2002) and canada (fifth estate, "spiritual shepherds", january 2003).

  the civil suit they brought against the wts in the new hampshire state courts was referred to.

  that suit was going well in pretrial motions and depositions, etc., until it was dealt a serious and potentially fatal setback by a decision made by the judge in june 2003, which was blaste--er, discussed--in these threads: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  loveis

  bttt
• 
  14

  BERRY GIRLS' NEW HAMPSHIRE SUPREME COURT APPEAL IS FINALLY SET!!!

  by loveis in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sad saga of the berry girls (holly brewer and heather berry) and their mother, sarah poisson, is well known to most longtime posters here, having been featured prominently on the jw abuse shows on television, notably at length in the ones in the uk (bbc panorama, "suffer the little children", july 2002) and canada (fifth estate, "spiritual shepherds", january 2003).

  the civil suit they brought against the wts in the new hampshire state courts was referred to.

  that suit was going well in pretrial motions and depositions, etc., until it was dealt a serious and potentially fatal setback by a decision made by the judge in june 2003, which was blaste--er, discussed--in these threads: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  loveis

  I know Paul Berry and he told me his version and it always stank............it made me question him.......I hope he sinks

  Well, he's pretty well already sunk as far as humanly possible...in jail for 56 to 112 years (his appeal was denied in 2002), which means he will be 100 years old when eligible for parole/release. This civil case is not primarily about him, but about the WTS and its response and policies. IIRC, Paul Berry was originally named as an individual defendant in the civil suit in addition to the WTS, but the judge dropped him from the suit because an applicable statute of limitations had run. This may be one of the issues being appealed, see above. Paul Berry is listed in the oral argument listing as a "pro se" respondent (one who files his own brief with the NHSC without a lawyer's assistance), so evidently Holly and Heather are asking for him to be put back as an individual defendant. Why, I don't know; the man can't possibly have any significant money or assets (except for maybe making 10 cents an hour scrubbing toilets in prison), but then maybe, for them, it isn't about money but about "sending a message" and helping others in similar situations.
• 
  14

  BERRY GIRLS' NEW HAMPSHIRE SUPREME COURT APPEAL IS FINALLY SET!!!

  by loveis in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sad saga of the berry girls (holly brewer and heather berry) and their mother, sarah poisson, is well known to most longtime posters here, having been featured prominently on the jw abuse shows on television, notably at length in the ones in the uk (bbc panorama, "suffer the little children", july 2002) and canada (fifth estate, "spiritual shepherds", january 2003).

  the civil suit they brought against the wts in the new hampshire state courts was referred to.

  that suit was going well in pretrial motions and depositions, etc., until it was dealt a serious and potentially fatal setback by a decision made by the judge in june 2003, which was blaste--er, discussed--in these threads: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  loveis

  bttt as the hearing date approaches on Wednesday afternoon.

  NOTE: Evidently, in addition to the Berry girls' appeal, the WTS has also filed a CROSS appeal, mainly of the Judge's earlier ruling that the elders did indeed owe a FIDUCIARY duty of care, the concept that has been rejected in every other case, including Vicky Boer's. They don't want that standing as a precedent, for sure.

  According to information available on the New Hampshire Supreme Court web site, the issues to be hashed out during the oral arguments are as follows:

  Negligence, deceit, breach of fiduciary duty -- failure to report abuse; whether Jehovah's Witness Elders were required to report child abuse; whether clergy-penitent privilege applies; whether inquiry into or regulation of conduct of defendants would violate Establishment Clause or Free Exercise Clause;

  CROSS-appeal -- whether action is time-barred; whether First Amendment applies; whether common law duty applies

  So, whew, that's a lot of issues, and in anticipation the justices scheduled the full 30 minute argument session (15 min. for each side). We should be able to hear the arguments online as some point before the decision is handed down.

  Be thinking about the Berry girls at about 2:00 to 3:00 PM Eastern Time Wednesday, as this hearing takes place.
• 
  14

  BERRY GIRLS' NEW HAMPSHIRE SUPREME COURT APPEAL IS FINALLY SET!!!

  by loveis in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sad saga of the berry girls (holly brewer and heather berry) and their mother, sarah poisson, is well known to most longtime posters here, having been featured prominently on the jw abuse shows on television, notably at length in the ones in the uk (bbc panorama, "suffer the little children", july 2002) and canada (fifth estate, "spiritual shepherds", january 2003).

  the civil suit they brought against the wts in the new hampshire state courts was referred to.

  that suit was going well in pretrial motions and depositions, etc., until it was dealt a serious and potentially fatal setback by a decision made by the judge in june 2003, which was blaste--er, discussed--in these threads: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  loveis

  bttt
• 
  14

  BERRY GIRLS' NEW HAMPSHIRE SUPREME COURT APPEAL IS FINALLY SET!!!

  by loveis in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sad saga of the berry girls (holly brewer and heather berry) and their mother, sarah poisson, is well known to most longtime posters here, having been featured prominently on the jw abuse shows on television, notably at length in the ones in the uk (bbc panorama, "suffer the little children", july 2002) and canada (fifth estate, "spiritual shepherds", january 2003).

  the civil suit they brought against the wts in the new hampshire state courts was referred to.

  that suit was going well in pretrial motions and depositions, etc., until it was dealt a serious and potentially fatal setback by a decision made by the judge in june 2003, which was blaste--er, discussed--in these threads: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  loveis

  bttt
• 
  14

  BERRY GIRLS' NEW HAMPSHIRE SUPREME COURT APPEAL IS FINALLY SET!!!

  by loveis in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sad saga of the berry girls (holly brewer and heather berry) and their mother, sarah poisson, is well known to most longtime posters here, having been featured prominently on the jw abuse shows on television, notably at length in the ones in the uk (bbc panorama, "suffer the little children", july 2002) and canada (fifth estate, "spiritual shepherds", january 2003).

  the civil suit they brought against the wts in the new hampshire state courts was referred to.

  that suit was going well in pretrial motions and depositions, etc., until it was dealt a serious and potentially fatal setback by a decision made by the judge in june 2003, which was blaste--er, discussed--in these threads: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  loveis

  This congregation trotted out many JWs to say that the abuser was a fine, upstanding man, a good worker, someone they would let take care of their children.

  Yes, and you can read all about it in this transcript of Paul Berry's sentencing hearing from October 31, 2000:

  http://www.silentlambs.org/education/pberry.cfm

  (SIDE POINT: The civil suit was originally filed about 9 months later, in August 2001.)
• 
  14

  BERRY GIRLS' NEW HAMPSHIRE SUPREME COURT APPEAL IS FINALLY SET!!!

  by loveis in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sad saga of the berry girls (holly brewer and heather berry) and their mother, sarah poisson, is well known to most longtime posters here, having been featured prominently on the jw abuse shows on television, notably at length in the ones in the uk (bbc panorama, "suffer the little children", july 2002) and canada (fifth estate, "spiritual shepherds", january 2003).

  the civil suit they brought against the wts in the new hampshire state courts was referred to.

  that suit was going well in pretrial motions and depositions, etc., until it was dealt a serious and potentially fatal setback by a decision made by the judge in june 2003, which was blaste--er, discussed--in these threads: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  loveis

  The sad saga of the Berry girls (Holly Brewer and Heather Berry) and their mother, Sarah Poisson, is well known to most longtime posters here, having been featured prominently on the JW abuse shows on television, notably at length in the ones in the UK (BBC Panorama, "Suffer the Little Children", July 2002) and Canada (Fifth Estate, "Spiritual Shepherds", January 2003). The civil suit they brought against the WTS in the New Hampshire state courts was referred to.

  That suit was going well in pretrial motions and depositions, etc., until it was dealt a serious and potentially fatal setback by a decision made by the judge in June 2003, which was blaste--er, discussed--in these threads:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/54228/1.ashx

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/54434/1.ashx

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/54485/1.ashx

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/55064/1.ashx

  (This time period, late June 2003, was, as you may recall, the same time period when the decision in the Vicky Boer case was finally handed down, so this significant event may have been lost in the numerious threads about that).

  The Berry girls' attorneys announced their intent to appeal to the New Hampshire Supreme Court. Well, the showdown in the NHSC is finally set!The hearing (oral arguments) of the appeal is set for the afternoon of Wednesay, October 20, 2004, as shown on the court's oral argument calendar posted on the web:

  http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/orals/oct2004sched.htm

  (case is at the very bottom of the page. Holly Brewer is incorrectly referred to as "Holly Berry." but maybe that's because the name was already that way in the court record. "Pro hac vice" is legalese for an attorney from another state's bar who is assisting.)

  Note that the NHSC even posts audio files of oral arguments at some point after the argument session (perhaps a few weeks later). It should be interesting to hear each side make its case before the justices.

  NOTE: SInce Bill Bowen of Silentlambs wants to testify as an expert witness for the Berry girls (when and if the case reaches trial), a deposition of him was taken by the WTS attorneys in June 2003, and he was none too pleased with the experience, as discussed on this thread:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/53368/1.ashx

  After arguments, when the decision will come is anyone's guess, of course, but the general trend appears to suggest a decision by late spring 2005 at least.

  As a side point: Judge Groff was blasted in the threads above, but after looking at a number of appeals of decisions made by him (or by juries in jury trials that he presided over), it appears, roughly, that the NHSC has upheld those decisions about 75% of the time. So it does appear that he generally knows how to read the law in the right way.
• 
  13

  New Case: good for WBTS

  by La Capra in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  in reviewing the "new news" out of the courts this morning, i came across this case: doe v. corp. of president of church of jesus christ of latter day saints: 2004 wl 1846365 utah app.,2004.

  aug. 19, 2004. the church won, the basic premise was that the church owed no duty to the children to warn of a "high priest's" past sexual abuse activities.

  "church did not have special relationship with church "high priest" giving rise to duty to warn of his alleged sexual abuse; "high priest" was not church agent, employee, or member of clergy, and abuse did not occur on church property or during church-sponsored activity.".

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  loveis

  bttt-----UPDATE: It looks like this case has been appealed to the Supreme Court of Utah:

  http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_269114309.html

  Maybe the judges there will see things differently and a precedent will be established that can be used in cases against the WTS.

  What do you think?
• 
  4

  Anybody recall where the Society said not to "celebrate" your baptism?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife recently asked me out of the blue why the society said we're not supposed to celebrate baptism.

  i told her that was a good question, i couldn't think of any scripture that forbids it, why don't we look it up?

  i remember reading that article, a questions from readers, i thought.

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  loveis

  This too:

  *** w85 6/1 pp. 30-31 Subjecting Ourselves to Jehovah by Dedication ***

  In the past, some have gone to extremes in giving costly gifts and holding large parties for newly baptized persons. Baptism is an occasion for great joy that can be shared, but perhaps a word of caution is appropriate here. The Bible states: "Better is the end afterward of a matter than its beginning." (Ecclesiastes 7:8) Baptism is a beginning?the beginning of the Christian race for salvation to life. Certainly no lengthy record of faithful service has yet been established. So why cause the newly converted ones to feel unduly self-important??Compare 1 Timothy 3:6.