Posts by AMNESIAN

If, and I stress if, these figures are accurate, then these folks, though technically active publishers, are apparently not attending meetings regularly.

No matter what the numbers appear to say, the fact that the Society continues to lecture so relentlessly at meeting after meeting, CA/DC after CA/DC and in the literature on the necessity of meeting attendance is, imo, the single most reliable indicator of what it recognizes to be the true state of the organization. Meeting attendance is manifestly down--- and declining. The NY crime bosses realize this. If they knew/believed their service year figures to be accurate, they'd already be crowing non-stop and such would be reflected in the literature and on programs. Instead you have what appear to be strong figures, yet the harangue continues unabated.

Something smells. Figures compiled from sloppy and suspect input can and do lie. Eyes usually don't.

AMNESIAN

24

WT Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-10 WT Stdy

by blondie in

wt comments you will not hear at the 11-10-02 wt study .

keep practicing the things you have learned philippians 4:9 .

philippians 4:9 nwt .

AMNESIAN

Blondie, thanks for your usual brilliant deconstruction and commentary. Especially masterful:

Yet the WTS invites, "test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world (1 John 4:1). But dont test the WTS because they are from God and we know that because they say they are from God. Now the WTS brings out the big guns. "Instead of questioning Gods Word (the WTS actually puts their words on the same plane as Gods), how much wiser it is to have the attitude of the first-century Beroeans who examined the Scriptures closely!"
...
Notice how the WTS has applied this scripture in the first quote compared to the second.
WT 1/15/89 page 6 Are You Open to New Ideas?
That we should be selective about accepting new ideas. We would do well to imitate the Beroeans by "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things [taught by Paul] were so." (Acts 17:11) Rather than blindly accepting every new idea presented to us, we need to do careful and exact research, just as a judge would in hearing a legal case.
But during the apostate wars in 1980 and 1981 the application is:
WT 2/15/81 pages 18-19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible?

A NOBLE-MINDEDVIEW
How shall we view the spiritual food provided by this "faithful and discreet slave"? Should it be viewed critically? Oh, well, it might be true but then again it might not be and so we have to scrutinize it very critically? Some apparently have felt that way about it. To support their way of thinking they have quoted Acts 17:11, But does this mean that those Beroeans were looking for flaws in the message they were hearing, or that their attitude was one of doubting? Does this set a precedent for regarding critically the publications brought forth by the "faithful and discreet slave," with a view to finding fault? Not at all!

Very good catch indeed. In the words of that other great Homer: Doh !

I recall that paragraph from the '81 study article like it was yesterday. So the noble-minded Boreans were commended, in the scriptures no less, for testing out the teachings of apostles ---whose claims of holy-spirit appointment were easily authenticated by their miraculous gifts--- but the present-day flock is warned against similar due-diligence when it comes to receiving "truth" from men who've given beyond any reasonable doubt every evidence of never having been appointed, divinely or otherwise, and, further, couldn't recognize the operation of holy spirit if it busted them in their dentures?

Confuse me???

I no longer attend meetings yet still get quite the kick out of your analyses. They've helped me come to appreciate just how many other "exemplary" JW women were experiencing precisely what I was for so many years--- sitting prim and proper in KHs across the world, suffering beneath placid, "submissive" facades similar roiling objections and arguments to transparently deceptive WT "logic" on every conceivable topic during one intellectually-numbing ~~beating~~ meeting after another. How being aware of this at the time might have mitigated my agony. Then again, perhaps it might have made it all even more unbearable, if that is at all possible.

You further remarked:

But I will tell you this, the WTS is hurting financially and I heard things said yesterday from the platform about money that I have never heard or were so long ago (over 40 years) that I have forgotten.

Please elaborate here. What exactly was said??? I'm all eyeballs !

AMNESIAN

Edited by - AMNESIAN on 11 November 2002 16:20:40

32

Loyalty to the truth

by happy man in

jw
friends

.

at bokstudy yesterday , we talk of the diffrent things gb say, and who we must stand to this.. i tell that they are only peopel and have make some misstaks, as we can se , fore exampel in the proclaimers book, well the study leader say, we must shoe loyality to the gb, even iif it later show upp to bee wrong, it is very importat that we follow what they say.. this is a ver difficult area, ofcourse in our religion we can not have 6 million diffretn wuies, but if we follow evry word very carefull, are we then not follow man?.

what about if they say something who take your life, and later change this, who is responsibel, or even worse our kidds, who are resposibel if they die on such polyci, like the transplantaision prohibition, we have fore some time, are we fore exampel personaly responsibel fore our akts, when the day is here, or can we say, we only follow what the gb say.. this is a very tricky qestion who i think about a lot

AMNESIAN

HM, your responder opined:

For example. Just because the decision may be questionable in that EXTREME situation, does that mean all the OTHER directions received from the GB should be questioned?

Let's allow the GB to speak for themselves, shall we?

Excerpted

for his and your consideration. In every instance wherein reference is made to "Catholic Church," "Catholics," and "eating meat on Friday," feel free to substitute "the Governing Body," "Jehovah's Witnesses," and "organ transplants"/ "blood fractions transfusions"/"alternative military service" respectively:

FOR centuries Catholics abstained from eating meat on Fridays. It was a Church law. Many sincerely believed it was a law of Almighty God. But now this has changed.

The fact is that the meatless-Friday rule was made an obligation only some 1,100 years ago. Pope Nicholas I (858-867) was the one who put it into effect. And how vital was it considered that Catholics abide by this rule?

A publication that bears the Catholic imprimatur, indicating approval, states: The Catholic Church says that it is a mortal sin for a Catholicto eat meat on Friday knowingly and wilfully, without a sufficiently grave and excusing reason. It adds: The Church says that if a man dies in unrepented mortal sin, he will go to hell. R adio Replies, Rumble and Carty (1938)
Thus the devout carefully avoided eating meat on Fridays. They sincerely believed that failure to obey could lead to their eternal punishment in a fiery hell.

But then, early in 1966, Pope Paul VI authorized local Church officials to modify this abstinence requirement in their countries as they saw fit. The pope was acting in line with recommendations made at the recently completed Second Vatican Council. Thus, in one country after another, meatless Fridays were virtually abolishedin France, Canada, Italy, Mexico, the United States, and so on.

...
The effect upon many devout Catholics has been devastating. All these years I thought it was a sin to eat meat, explained a housewife in the midwestern United States. Now I suddenly find out it isnt a sin. Thats hard to understand.

If you are a Catholic, can you understand how a practice that was considered by the Church a mortal sin can suddenly be approved? if it was a sin five years ago, why is it not today? Many Catholics cannot understand.

When a woman in Canada was asked how she felt about the changes in her church, she replied: I dont know. Maybe you can tell me. What are they going to do with all those people sent to hell for eating meat on Friday?
Not just a few Catholics have asked such questions.The change in teaching has shaken their confidence in the Church. Would you not feel the same way if what you had always been taught to be vital for salvation was suddenly considered unnecessary? Would you not be inclined to question other teachings of your church also? (emphasis mine)

"Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday?" Awake, April 22, 1970, pgs. 8-9

(excerpted)

Tell me, he asked, how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible, in God, or have faith? Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe new things. How do I know the new things will be the truth in five years?

"Changes That Disturb People," Awake, April 22, 1970, pgs. 8-9

AMNESIAN

Edited by - AMNESIAN on 18 October 2002 16:22:54

27

QUEENIE home from HOSPITAL !!

by QUEENIE in

jw
friends

yes everyone i am home from the hospital after a 3--1/2 week stay due to veineous leg ulcers...as a diebetic it takes forever to heal..now another 3 month rest...no line dancing no dancing at all..in a few minutes i have been instructed by lisa to lay down and put up my feet 4 a while...i have been sitting up long enough...now i need to take a nap...i will compose something as to my stay it was an experience to say the least...i missed you all..i am addicted to this site !!!

(((((hugs))))) queenie

AMNESIAN

I must admit, when you first started posting, I thought you were a little, well, uhh, ahh, well, nevermind.

I very much regret that, for a period, I, too, completely missed what a true heroine you are, Queenie, and the gift you bring to this board.

I've come to have great affection for you for your stamina, your positive attitude, your mighty spirit, and welcome back!!! I'm glad you're home.

These are precisely my feelings as well. I am so glad to hear you are back home and to see you posting again.

I am not inclined to post here often and rarely reply to even those posts about which I have strong feelings. You should know, though, that, even when I don't comment, your posts quite often touch my heart and, imo, your contribution here is immeasurable, perhaps beyond what you may realize---every bit equal to those generally touted as the best and far exceeding a great many. I missed them during your hospitalization.

Take very good care of Queenie, for you and us.

Affectionately,

AMNESIAN

Edited by - AMNESIAN on 16 October 2002 18:9:7

23

My kid, ten years cancer free.

by BeautifulGarbage in

today my daughter is ten years cancer free.

of course, much of that is owed to the tranfusions of blood products.

products that i did not hesitate to have given to her.. with so much going on in my life (recent death in the family), this board, and just the general rush of life, this very important day nearly got by me.

AMNESIAN

Thank you for posting this uplifting notice, Andee. I needed it today. May you and your family enjoy many more healthy decades.

AMNESIAN

121

Ray Franz Key Witness?!

by qwerty in

jw
friends

this may have been a topic before on the board.

it would be suprising if anyone else as not thought of this.. with regards to the 5 governing body members who have been named as child abusers.

would ray franz be able to confirm these aligations?

AMNESIAN

I certainly don't believe that Ray (or anybody else, for that matter) should be pestered into endorsing/supporting any cause toward which s/he is not conscientiously inclined (nor be denigrated for that disinclination), however, I would stop short of agreeing with:

I think you are missing the point that he is in his (late?) 80's and I would hope putting the whole JW thing behind him for what little of his life is left.

He obviously has not put "the whole JW thing" behind him. His several and recent "new" editions to Crisis of Conscience will bear that out.

AMNESIAN

Edited by - AMNESIAN on 9 October 2002 17:10:52

121

Ray Franz Key Witness?!

by qwerty in

jw
friends

this may have been a topic before on the board.

it would be suprising if anyone else as not thought of this.. with regards to the 5 governing body members who have been named as child abusers.

would ray franz be able to confirm these aligations?

AMNESIAN

Hawkaw:

Bill - So he actually has said he presently supports the policy? Well I will take up your offer and phone him Bill - likely tomorrow.
Like I said though - I really don't care if he wrote the policy or if he doesn't support victims or silentlambs. One only has time for so many causes and to me it's not a big deal if he comes out in support or not.

Then why are you calling to bother the poor guy, Hawk???

However, I would take notice and begin to investigate this more if he actually does support WTS policy on child abuse over the years and he still thinks its okay.

Investigate exactly what and why if you "really don't care???"

I would just like a "fact" to work from on this seeing you started it.

"Fact to work from on this" going where for what purpose???

AMNESIAN - (who gratefully devoured his insider expose yet always puzzles at the adoring credit Ray receives for "helping so many out of the WTS" by writing an expose on its wickedness and hypocrisy only after he was given the boot by the same wicked and hypocritical organization he did his damndest to remain a member of).

8

Local Attendees to Annual Meeting

by AMNESIAN in

jw
friends

apologies if this has been discussed.

two longtime elders (one in his fifties, the other in his eighties) and their wives/families, all from the same one of the many local congregations around here, received personalized invitations to attend this year's (this weekend's?

) annual meeting.

AMNESIAN

My guess would be that they are trying to introduce a new "brownie point". So now whomever gets invited gets added "perks" in the eyes of the r&f in their congregation. And people will think they must be extra spiritual because obviously Jehovah's spirit picked them.

You could be right, Blue, yet, my sense is that these two men are already considered spiritual among the members of this congregation---the eighty-something year-old is the PO and has served for a very long time.

I'm thinking the Society might be using this year's meeting as a kind of pep rally of sorts to shore up flagging morale in the midst of the unprecedented (in the modern era) media drubbing. As well, these hand-picked attendees---of longtime loyalty to the corporation--- might be deputized to transport some specially-crafted encouragement in these difficult times for God's people to the troops at home. From Christ's very own annointed brothers.

Just my opinion---worth exactly what it costs.

AMNESIAN

Edited by - AMNESIAN on 5 October 2002 16:57:34

8

Local Attendees to Annual Meeting

by AMNESIAN in

jw
friends

apologies if this has been discussed.

two longtime elders (one in his fifties, the other in his eighties) and their wives/families, all from the same one of the many local congregations around here, received personalized invitations to attend this year's (this weekend's?

) annual meeting.

AMNESIAN

like most bethelites you repaid them in annual meeting tickets

Yes, I am quite familiar with this particular avenue of procuring admission tickets [to the annual meeting] and the like. In this particular situation, though, the two men of whom I speak received their invites specifically from the WTS, addressed personally to them. As of their departure, they were uninformed as to how they came to be recipients. Presumably they'll know more upon their return.

Again, there may be nothing unique about this. I can only speak from our own experience and knowledge base and that of those to whom we've been close for many years.

AMNESIAN

Edited by - AMNESIAN on 5 October 2002 13:12:47