there appears to be "new light" in the latest watchtower magazine (june 1st 2003 issue).
several watchtower publications for the last 50+ years have said that the united nations (u.n.) organization ("the scarlet-colored wild beast" of revelation) would definitely be the organization that will carry out jehovah's judgment on "babylon the great" (false religion), and then, under satan's [gog of magog's] direction, the united nations organization would become "greedy", and try to attack the remaining remnant of the "anointed" jehovah's witnesses and their companions, the "great crowd" of "other sheep", and then jehovah and jesus would destroy the united nations organization, along with everyone else who was not a jehovah's witness.
here is a quote that shows this: .
Thanks for this alert, UnDf'd. This looks, at last, to be the inevitable revision the Society has been under the gun for for some time now. The problem though, for me anyway, is that the excerpts you provide are such minuscule, truncated snippets that I cannot objectively evaluate the material for myself---which I am anxious to do! Any chance you can provide considerably more and verbatim context surrounding these statements?
Thanks again!
AMNESIAN
is somewhat long, but what it shows is the tremendous amount of documentation that religious groups often time have on the bad actions of their members
this one quote just stood out:
macleish said shanley's writings are significant because they show that church officials had ample evidence that shanley was a danger to the youths he counseled in his street ministry as early as 1972, yet continued to allow him to work as a priest and apparently did little to supervise him or alter his behavior.
And this is the same way in which wt handles issues- one of the worst things that is common knowledge is that wt keeps an extension paper trail on it's members who have to have judical committees- etc- therefore wt can[not] say WE DIDN'T KNOW,
This, indeed, should/must be quite the critical concern for the WTS.
I do not think it too far-fetched a scenario wherein some elders, either on their own or in obedience to oral "nudges" from HQ, in a misguided attempt to protect the organization and/or themselves, begin discarding damaging files and other probative documentation. Nothing like adding obstruction of justice charges to their offenses.
----------------------------
By William Lobdell
Times Staff Writer
April 16, 2003
Michael Stephen Baker, the priest who 17 years ago confessed to Cardinal Roger M. Mahony that he had molested boys, became the first Los Angeles cleric to be ordered to criminal trial since the Catholic Church's sex scandal broke last year.
After a two-day preliminary hearing in Downey, a Los Angeles County Superior Court commissioner ruled that there was enough evidence to try Baker on 29 felony charges of molestation. Baker left the ministry in 2000.
Prosecutors presented a single witness, Matthew Severson, a 35-year-old West Hollywood man who testified he had been sexually abused by Baker more than 100 times during the 1970s and 1980s, with the first alleged molestations beginning at age 7 or 8.
Besides involving the first former priest to be ordered to trial, the Baker case will be closely watched because of its link to [Cardinal Roger M.] Mahony. Baker told Mahony in 1986 that he had abused two or three boys, though Baker stayed in the ministry until 2000.
Mahony transferred Baker to nine parishes, many temporary assignments, after learning about the priest's history of alleged sex abuse and sending him to therapy. In 2000, the cardinal approved a confidential $1.3-million settlement to two men. Mahony removed Baker from the ministry that same year without notifying authorities or informing parishioners about the alleged abuses. Baker then successfully petitioned Pope John Paul II to be released from the priesthood.
Baker is one of more than 100 L.A.-area priests under investigation by the district attorney's office. Eleven have been charged in the last year.
A key piece of evidence presented by Deputy Dist. Atty. Steven Katz was a letter written in 1994 by Baker, in which the then-priest apologized to Severson for his "immature emotions and psychosexual-screwed-up-ness," which he said had "slashed and burned through those years of your life seeking self-satisfaction in the name of love."
Commissioner Burt Barnett ruled that the letter was, "if not a confession, at least a strong admission of misconduct."
In the courtroom, Severson was supported by family, friends and Catholics who attended his childhood churches, St. Paul of the Cross in La Mirada and St. Hilary in Pico Rivera. After the commissioner's ruling, Severson's mother, Diane, gave her son a long hug and called it "the happiest day Matt and I have had together."
During the testimony, Baker's gaze remained fixed on the floor, a finger stroking his mustache.
In cross-examination, Donald Steier, Baker's attorney, asked Severson how many specific sexual encounters with Baker he could remember. Severson, who said the acts occurred in the rectory of two Los Angeles parishes and at a condominium in Palm Desert, said most of the alleged assaults had blended together in his memory.
But he was able to tie details of several to specific events, such as a New Year's Eve party, a church dance and an outing to see a movie, "Kramer vs. Kramer," with the priest. He occasionally referred to a timeline he had drawn last week to refresh his memory.
"I'm a bit of a list-maker," Severson said.
Steier also asked the witness if he had "a crush" on or was "infatuated" with Baker, a characterization that Severson denied. Baker's attorney succeeded in arguing that testimony about other alleged victims of Baker should not be considered at the hearing.
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AMNESIAN
now that it's dispensed with its annual ``don't you dare partake" in advance of their spring travesty of a communion, the faithful and discreet slave shifts its focus to another seasonal perennial: the km's recurrent exhortation to ``mind your manners at this summer's district conventions.
by ``connecting the dots" between the leadership's admonition to mind one's manners at the hotel, to tip approriately, to avoid ``double-dipping'' by eating and then loading up on unapproved takeaways for lunch at hotels that prvide complimentary breakfast, to refrain from losing all inhibitions in after-hour socializing and to forego the donning of outlandish skin-tight (or conversely loose fitting ``hip-hop" outfits) forte duration of the assembly, a picture quite different from the idealized notion of jws being a worldwide fraternity of solidly mature, temperate ministers who lives find fulfilment only in the service of god and their fellow man.. what sort of adults need to be lectured in such terms, let alone a group that boasts of its aloofness from satan's world?
what does it suggest about leadership's awareness of how far removed from reality the rank and file is from their literature's stylized imagery?
Two years ago, in a "To All Congregations in..." letter read in our area, JWs who lived within 50 miles of the convention site were expressly forbidden to lodge in any hotel, whether on the approved list or not. I assumed (of course, it was never explained) the reason to probably be that locals were booking rooms out-of-town delegates needed. Regardless the reason, though, imo, the Society clearly demonstrates the outlandish degree to which it flexes its abusive authority when it presumes to forbid ---not request!---anything that so plainly falls within the parameters of personal choice and preference.
AMNESIAN
now that it's dispensed with its annual ``don't you dare partake" in advance of their spring travesty of a communion, the faithful and discreet slave shifts its focus to another seasonal perennial: the km's recurrent exhortation to ``mind your manners at this summer's district conventions.
by ``connecting the dots" between the leadership's admonition to mind one's manners at the hotel, to tip approriately, to avoid ``double-dipping'' by eating and then loading up on unapproved takeaways for lunch at hotels that prvide complimentary breakfast, to refrain from losing all inhibitions in after-hour socializing and to forego the donning of outlandish skin-tight (or conversely loose fitting ``hip-hop" outfits) forte duration of the assembly, a picture quite different from the idealized notion of jws being a worldwide fraternity of solidly mature, temperate ministers who lives find fulfilment only in the service of god and their fellow man.. what sort of adults need to be lectured in such terms, let alone a group that boasts of its aloofness from satan's world?
what does it suggest about leadership's awareness of how far removed from reality the rank and file is from their literature's stylized imagery?
A 192-page JW publication: worthless.
An FDS prophecy: useless.
The following hilarity from Minimus:
How thankful we can be that the "faithful slave" has seen to it to give us "winsome words", always at the right time! We surely do appreciate how Jehovah God is teaching and instructing his people in these "last days". We are delighted with such "healthful teaching", as it continues to assist us during such "critical times, so hard to deal with". For, if the "faithful slave" stopped giving us these important reminders, we would be as the world is, as ones having "no foundation". Truly, we can be joyful that our "happy God" cares about us as we "serve shoulder to shoulder" with the "worldwide brotherhood" in this unmannered worldly system. We are in an "arena" and we are "spectacles" in this "system of things".
Priceless.
AMNESIAN
now that it's dispensed with its annual ``don't you dare partake" in advance of their spring travesty of a communion, the faithful and discreet slave shifts its focus to another seasonal perennial: the km's recurrent exhortation to ``mind your manners at this summer's district conventions.
by ``connecting the dots" between the leadership's admonition to mind one's manners at the hotel, to tip approriately, to avoid ``double-dipping'' by eating and then loading up on unapproved takeaways for lunch at hotels that prvide complimentary breakfast, to refrain from losing all inhibitions in after-hour socializing and to forego the donning of outlandish skin-tight (or conversely loose fitting ``hip-hop" outfits) forte duration of the assembly, a picture quite different from the idealized notion of jws being a worldwide fraternity of solidly mature, temperate ministers who lives find fulfilment only in the service of god and their fellow man.. what sort of adults need to be lectured in such terms, let alone a group that boasts of its aloofness from satan's world?
what does it suggest about leadership's awareness of how far removed from reality the rank and file is from their literature's stylized imagery?
Room 215:
What does it suggest about leadership's awareness of how far removed from reality the rank and file is from their literature's stylized imagery?
Lol! So on target. Now, why do you suppose annual convention admonition doesn't take the form of a simple "Let us continue, brothers, in the things we've learned, continuing to make our advancement manifest to all" hmmm? Surely that would suffice if HQ truly entertained even the delusion that JWs are the model citizens and Christians they profess themselves to be. In truth, much of the "counsel" published each (and every!) year shockingly conjures marginally-civilized behaviors no self-respecting "worldling" would ever dare indulge!
Rotflol! Love it, love it, love it...
AMNESIAN
i wonder if they'll just berate everyone that continues to partake or if they'll shift their opinion again?
There won't be more partakers this year. The count this year, in fact, will drop. Perhaps significantly. The WT study article on the subject (and likely "special" instructions to the attendants) will have its intended effect.
With WT "prophecy" not fulfilling on its own, organization leadership has apparently decided to dictate its fulfillment.
AMNESIAN
this small group is located in tuscon, arizona.
some of the members, fearing reprisals (disfellowshipping), choose anonymity.
most have reached this stage in their lives thanks to the internet and forums like ours.
Will women ever stop being blamed for a man's inability to censor his actions.? And I can't think of any six year old girls who dress provocatively. Maybe I'm just naieve.
Woman will forever be blamed for their own abuse---of whatever kind--- and men will forever be stereotyped (and, in backwards, uninformed cultures such as the WT, excused) as mindless grunting, knuckle-dragging savages, helpless to resist the demands of raging priapism. Demeaning to both. And sickening.
A good-news article. Thanks for posting.
AMNESIAN
comments you will not hear at the 4-6-03 wt study .
february 15, 2003 wt page 17
quotes from the wt will be in red ; reviewers comments in black and parentheses.
Sorry to keep beating this but it has me intrigued. One last thought.
It certainly speaks to the caliber of thinker and writer, to say nothing of spiritual qualification, the WTS is employing these days that the sentence "So nobody should think that being an annointed Christian gives him wisdom superior to that of those having the earthly hope" could ever be uttered or much less written and make it past an editor into a publication!
It is, simply, a major gaffe, imo. If the writer insisted on pursuing his tenuous line of reasoning, he should have said "no one should think that having superior wisdom signifies him as an annointed Christian." This way the annointed---specifically the GB--- are left with their claimed "superior wisdom" while, at the same time, allowing that this is not their only qualification. Instead, the writer chops the already-feeble legs out from under the GB's arrogated spiritual authority by denying the superior spiritual wisdom of all the annointed.
Astounding. The more I consider this "mis-speak," the more aghast I become.
Sounds to me like, in addition to law school, they need to consider sending some of the boys to some writing workshops.
And Logic 101.
Uh, or maybe not.
Okeydoke, I'm done this time.
AMNESIAN
comments you will not hear at the 4-6-03 wt study .
february 15, 2003 wt page 17
quotes from the wt will be in red ; reviewers comments in black and parentheses.
Others have already sharply focused in on the following in paragraph 16 under Why Mistaken Assumptions: "God has an arrangement for providing spiritual food for all his people. (Matthew 24:45-47). So nobody should think that being an annointed Christian gives him wisdom superior to that of those having the earthly hope." (emphasis mine) It helps to examine this curious admission alongside specific previous published assertions: What arrangement has God made for providing spiritual food for his people, according to the WTS?
WT 2001 11/1 pp. 28-29 "The Blessing of Jehovah—That Is What Makes Rich" Through Jesus Christ and "the faithful and discreet slave," Jehovah has provided a bountiful supply of spiritual food that helps us to remain on "the road leading off into life." (emphasis mine)
And who does the WTS identify as the fds today?
WT 1995 2/1 pp. 12-13 "A Great Crowd of True Worshipers—From Where Have They Come?" par 15: In that discourse in 1923, an effort was made to identify those who fit the Lord’s description of the sheep and of the goats, but other matters needed to be understood before the full import of the parable would be clear. During the following years, Jehovah progressively drew these important details to the attention of his servants. These included clearly understanding, in 1927, that "the faithful and discreet slave" is the entire body of spirit-anointed Christians on earth; (emphasis mine)
So is not the "arrangement" that the entire body of spirit-anointed Christians on earth at any given time---all of whom make up the fds---providing spiritual food for Jesus' other sheep? How can it be said, then, that being annointed does not confer superior wisdom on each and every one of them? In spite of its practices to the contrary, the WTS has never claimed that the GB has an annointing of knowledge superior to that possessed by the entire body of fds. (Of course they've never expounded, either, on how it is any of the fds who are not on the GB share in the dispensing of spiritual food!)
The point obviously is, exactly what is it the GB and "Nethinim" claim qualifies them to direct "God's people" if "nobody should think that being an annointed Christian gives him wisdom superior to that of those having the earthly hope," huh?
This would appear to be a glaring blunder I expect should draw the careful scrutiny and questioning by some of the brighter---and already doubting--- bulbs.
AMNESIAN
comments you will not hear at the 4-6-03 wt study .
february 15, 2003 wt page 17
quotes from the wt will be in red ; reviewers comments in black and parentheses.
Dogmatically, the article intones in various opening sentences:
Under the sub-heading Why Mistaken Assumptions:
"Now aware that they never had the heavenly hope, surely their conscience will compel them to stop partaking."
Notice here 'conscience' is singular as in one Borg Collective conscience as opposed to being pluralized as should rightly describe what should be the various and diversely-impelled individual consciences of truly 'free moral agents,' allowed and encouraged to live and make decisions as such.
And precisely how is it they are "now aware"? Why, the WTS just informed them, silly. And not only are they "aware" now that they do not have the heavenly hope, it is chucked in as an aside that they never had it. LOL!
After reading over this article, I made a prediction to my husband (who's still trying to be a JW, but is increasingly disillusioned, especially with articles such as these): this year will evidence a drop, perhaps precipitously, in the number of partakers. It will come about through one of/or two means:
First, there will be those JWs who, although having conscientiously partaken in previous years and probably still strongly inclined to do so, will succumb to, yes, perhaps some slight niggling doubts, but more likely guilt and/or just plain cowardice, as a result of the shaming-damning tone of this study article that strategically comes a mere week and a half before the Memorial. The fellas at HQ are nothing if not brilliant tacticians when it comes to controlling JW behavior merely by setting them against one another as peanut gallery judges. The peer pressure this year in services worldwide will be particularly suffocating for one who dares even consider lifting a morsel or glass to his 'unworthy' lips. I'm betting many will crumble under it. It's the corral that reliably keeps JWs "in line." Secondly, I'm betting the attendants (elders), will have been given more pointed counsel than ever before, in line with the scolding in this study article, as regards who should be included in the congregations' counts of partakers ("If an anointed one proves unfaithful, it is most likely (...) that a person who has long served God faithfully as one of the other sheep would be called to fill the vacancy thus caused in the 144,000." - par. 11).
We'll see if the Society's strategy pays off. If it does and, again, I believe it will, they will employ it to turn up the volume on the 'herald of Christ's presence.' If the number of partakers, however, remains fairly constant, I will be left to conclude that the flock is merely grazing at "their spiritual food at the proper time" and not "paying more than the usual attention." How ominously the latter would portend for God's name people.
Btw, one of HQ's top dogs, Robert P. Johnson (the very same one who used a private letter from his longtime friend, Joe Anderson, as a "witness" against Joe in the JC that ultimately df'd him) is being gifted a trip by a local congregation to give their Memorial talk. There's the offchance I may be able to come into posession of a recording of it. If I can do so safely without setting off any alarms, I'll make it available to someone who can post it.
Thanks for another solid editorial, blondie.
AMNESIAN
