Posts by Incognito

25

If an elder decides he wants to report child molestation to police.

by poopie in

jw
friends

can he be sued for violating clergy pertinent privilege by the person that confesses to him?.

Incognito

To my understanding, a religious confession could be heard by several people and still be considered confidential (privileged) if they all are present and known by the confessor to be present before the confession is made. If any of those people then revealed any matter of the confession without the confessor's consent to anyone not present, that person would then be breaching confidentiality.

I expect clergy penitent privilege is not intended to benefit clergy or the church but intended to benefit and protect the confidentiality, reputation and public standing of the confessor in matters of religious sin. Lines are blurred due to clergy confidentiality with regards a confession to religious sin vs a confession to having committed a crime.

I expect the courts will eventually be required to rule on and clarify these matters. Perhaps this will become one of the recommendations of the ARC whose recommendations hopefully will be noted and respected by other nations beyond Australia.

25

If an elder decides he wants to report child molestation to police.

by poopie in

jw
friends

can he be sued for violating clergy pertinent privilege by the person that confesses to him?.

Incognito

The only 'authority' religious clergy have is in regards to sin, not crime.

For it to be a 'confession', it would appear that it would need to be the person who had done the wrong (abuser), confessing his/her sins to the elder.

As the abused party has committed no sin in being abused, would it then be considered a religious confession if the abused party reported to an elder of having been abused?

To uphold and respect 'clergy penitent privilege' and 'confidentiality of confession', matters of confession would need to remain confidential between the confessor and the hearer of the confession. The hearer (elder) could not discuss the confession with another elder unless another elder was present to hear the confession and known by the confessor to be present before giving the confession.

To my understanding, WT's claim to clergy penitent privilege has been ruled inadmissible during some proceedings, due to an elder hearing a claimed 'confession', then sharing the matter with other elders not present when the confession was given.

75

Confused trying to understand JW GF or soon to be EX

by James87 in

i dont know where to start so why not at the beginning.

i was seeing this girl and we hit it off great chemistry.

it went from a physical to a deeper relationship.

Incognito

Not just a sucker but actually enjoys the excitement of being treated in an abusive manner.

11

Voting

by confused in

hi guys,.

i have been told that a while ago there was a watchtower article that said that voting, (i'm in uk) is down to individual conscience.

i always thought it was a judicial matter.

Incognito

While voting had been a DF'g offense, there are some countries that put pressure or opposition on WT for penalizing members for voting when voting is an expectation for that country's citizens. WT then declared voting to be a conscience matter, but as DOC stated, a JW having voted, is considered to have disassociated by his/her actions, similar to agreeing to and receiving a blood transfusion or enlisting in the military.

Whether Disfellowshiped or Disassociated, the resulting treatment is the same so that is a distinction without a difference.

4

Number of Comments per Page Selection not Visible

by Village Idiot in

i can no longer see the number of comments per page option that lets you decide between 10 or 20 posts per page.

i automatically get 10 comments per page whichever thread i'm on.

.

Incognito

Finding a particular post shouldn't rely on remembering which page it was on.

As a suggestion, a method to flag threads that we may wish to return to (a watched thread icon) or alternatively, a 'favorites' list, similar to web bookmarks.

There also could be an icon to indicate which threads we have participated in.

I too preferred 20 comments per page so I'm finding 10pp to be somewhat 'frustrating', for lack of a better word.

22

Do You Miss The "Red Dot"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

lol ...if you are new here, you might not understand the question..

Incognito

Yes. Actually this is something I had thought about yesterday.

The Red Dot was Minimus' identifying 'logo' and your posts could be easily spotted and identified from the crowd.

Some of us may have certain posters whose threads we may prefer to concentrate on prior to reviewing other topics. When a poster's icon is changed, that poster can loose some of their identity and their posts may not be as obvious.

75

Confused trying to understand JW GF or soon to be EX

by James87 in

i dont know where to start so why not at the beginning.

i was seeing this girl and we hit it off great chemistry.

it went from a physical to a deeper relationship.

Incognito

The purpose of dating is so each person can get to know who the other person really is.

Many of us wear a mask, especially when first meeting someone we are interested in and want to impress. While you may have thought you got to know the real her long ago, it seems it took 2 years for her to reveal her other personality, the cult personality.

Right now, you don't seem to care much for her other personality, so are you prepared to live with that personality for the remainder of your life? If not, the time invested in the relationship was not wasted or a failure but is the price paid before proceeding on to the relationship's next stage, to help ensure you both haven't chosen the wrong person to commit to and share the remainder of your life with.

48

Disfellowshipping decision to go before Canadian Supreme Court

by Simon in

high court will examine whether judicial review applies to membership decisions made by religious groups.

the supreme court of canada has agreed to hear an appeal involving a calgary man who was kicked out of his jehovah's witness church.. randy wall, a real estate agent was "disfellowshipped" from the highwood congregation for being drunk on two occasions and allegedly verbally abusing his wife.. as a result, he says his clients refused to do further business with him, so he argued his property and civil rights were affected.. after losing three internal church appeals of his expulsion, wall made an application with the court of queen's bench in calgary which ordered a hearing to first determine if there was jurisdiction for the court to hear the application.. decisions and appeals.

a judge decided the superior court did have jurisdiction to hear the application.. the church then appealed wall's decision to the alberta court of appeal, which upheld the court of queen's bench, affirming the court has jurisdiction to hear the matter.. one of the three appeal court judges dissented — arguing that congregations are private organizations akin to bridge clubs, whose decisions "are not enforceable promises and have limited, if any, impact outside its small circle.".

Incognito

Sanderson as the chair of this committee, 3 other GB members, and at least 12 helpers in attendance.

What a giant waste of time, MANpower & energy. I suspect the main function of the 'helpers' is to stroke the egos of the GB members by nodding their heads and agreeing with anything that spews from their mouths.

40

Another recorded Judicial Meeting...

by NikL in

jw
friends

i've listened to quite a few but for some reason, this one has me really angry.. my heart goes out to the young family dealing with this bull shite.. give a listen.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifkpiqigq9c.

Incognito

These "elders" came with a preset agenda. - dogisgod

Every JC has a preset agenda, and it isn't to help who ever is summoned.

In this JC, that was proven when the questions continued after the couple properly answered the elder's initial questions, which was about 5 minutes in.

Further questioning was really a fishing trip with the elders trolling to hook the couple. The couple proceeded to swallow the hook, line & sinker.

75

Confused trying to understand JW GF or soon to be EX

by James87 in

i dont know where to start so why not at the beginning.

i was seeing this girl and we hit it off great chemistry.

it went from a physical to a deeper relationship.

Incognito

Your alternative is to go ahead and marry her, then in 6 months you will be saying, "Those XJW fuckers were RIGHT, man! WHY didn't I listen to them? - Nathan Natas

There have been many here that have told a similar story as you. I expect you knew before posting here what would be said, yet hoped someone would say the opposite and give you hope that the relationship could succeed.

She is acting as two conflicted people. There is the genuine person who wants to receive attention, have a good time and fall in-love. Then there is the other personality who is feeling guilty and shameful for her genuine behavior and is acting in the extreme to right the wrong.

Her goal is to get you to convert to a JW. Even if you do that, it will not be enough as you will need to continually prove your allegiance to the organization. This is shown by answering at meetings, giving talks from the platform and becoming a Publisher. She will likely push for you to become a Ministerial Servant then an Elder etc, etc, etc. It is never enough and the religion takes priority over you even if you are her husband.

While you may feel you can get her out, it has been proven countless times, unless the person sees the flaws with the religion for them-self and they leave for their own reasons, they will not fully leave even if they stop attending. You can point-out the religion's flaws to her, but she will only oppose, resent, hate and punish you for doing so.