Posts by laurelin

26

1914 Generation Doctrine on their Website

by Sirona in

http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/index.htm?article=article_07.htm

how long a time period would these last days prove to be?

jesus said regarding the era that would experience the "beginning of pangs of distress" from 1914 onward: "this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.

laurelin

I agree with Flash. 1914 is definitly a downturn date for things.

I think the the WTS has the right date, they just arrived at it in the wrong way.

I studied pre and post WW1 history for my A level exams (shows my age!) and it became quite apparant to me that things are worse now than they have ever been.

Amac said: No. I only see the average lifespans increasing. I see worldwide reporting that makes more people aware of all the atrocities...but I don't see anything to show that there are more atrocities.

I don't see this. We've seen more atrocities in less than 90 years than ever before. People have always been evil but not on such a scale. You can't say that the nuclear bombs dropped during the second world war has anything even remotely similar in comparison in years previous to 1914. Not even the Crusades comes close to size of devastation one bomb caused, let alone two. There has been nothing in previous history to even slightly compare to the damage and mass murder these caused (with or without worldwide media). Hitler doesn't have an equal to the amount of damage, murder etc he commited.

Average lifespans have increased somewhat, but for how long? Doctors now tell us that the generation growing up now have a shorter lifespan due to unhealthy eating habits and unhealthy lifestyles.

Worldwide reporting does bring it home to us... but history can't compare with what we've done in the 20th centuary.

I think this is where the answer to 1914 lies, it's not what happens; it's the scale it happens on. More people are affected than before. Yes, so the Black Death, Spanish Flu, Potato Famine to mention a few affected on a large scale, even worldwide in some cases, but even they can't compare with things like AIDs, Heart Disease and Famine that we have now.

We may have better lives in the developed countries and in this we can definitly bury our heads, but third world countries are worse off.

I watched Sports Relief the other night and cried to see a little four year old working in dangerous stone quarries 6 days out of 7. Tiny mites living on traffic islands. An eleven year old girl having to care for her entire family and work to mention but a few. I can't get the image out of my head from Comic relief a while back now of a four year old looking after her baby brother (two) who couldn't walk because his toes had been chewed off by rats. I'm quite sure that if we tried to tell these ones that they were better off than their ancestors we'd be locked up for insanity.

Especially considering Imperialism and the race for Africa and India caused these problems in the first place. These people today do not have better lives than their ancestors before they were "discovered" and given a "civilised" way of life while their guests stripped their lands and lives of everything remotely useable.

Imperialism had it's roots in the 1800's but the true damage has been done this century. We have the ability to send a man to the moon, make bombs, weapons and diseases but we can't feed or cure our own human family. And to some extent we can't even admit that it's our fault in the first place.

I think that the scriptures in 2 Tim 3 and Matthew 24 do point to our time and 1914 is the start of that time.

6

Resurrection of husbands, wives.

by dothemath in

at the district convention.......we had a very touching experience of an elder who lost his wife fairly recently.

his comments gave the distinct impression he was going to be reunited with her in the new system............"jehovah is opening his hand and satisfying the desires of every living soul".......is the scripture he focused on.. that's certainly understandable.......i'm sure any of us in the same situation would feel similiarly.......but.......there was certainly no mention of the fact that those resurrected would be "as angels in heaven"(matt.

22: 30), and would no longer be given in marriage.. this is a topic i think the society is steering clear of........you have to go back quite a few years to see it commented on in detail.

laurelin

I personnaly think this is one scripture they have misquoted completely and I think they realise it.

It was back in the eighties when they last commentated on it in full and then they tried to reason that it was an earthly ressurection that Jesus was talking about. But the whole thing doesn't stand up to their own interpretations of the rest of the scriptures.

Jesus said that they would become like the angels and that they would not die. Angels are not immortal. Only the 144,000 are given immortality. Therefore Jesus had to be referring to the heavenly ressurection for his statement of not dying to hold true.

Which makes a whole lot more sense to me than saying Jehovah will satisfy every desire but the desire to remarry the person you spent your entire life with.

Interestingly, it has occured to me that the ones who bang on about not being able to marry in the ressurection are the ones who don't have the happiest marriages.... maybe they're hoping one or the other of them will die and they won't have to remarry that person.

I personally think that God will allow resurrected partners to re-unite. My mum is holding onto that hope and I won't take it away from her and I'll face any elder who does.

25

FACIAL HAIR

by JOLLYME in

i have a jw friend who thinks her husband would look better with facial hair.

(omg, it would improve his face!

) anyway, we all know this is a no no in some congregations.

laurelin

I think this is a perfect case of every congregation kinda does what it wants.

In our congregatin it isn't a problem. But if you go to some congregations in Portsmouth it is a problem (especially around the university area). I was told that it all depends on the styles used in your area. For example around the uni's their are several fraction groups that have a certain style of dress and a certain style of beard (goatee). The brothers there are advised not to have beards the same because people will associate them with students (Not certain how this would apply to a seventy year old! But then having said that there are few seventy year olds still worrying about image and keeping up with styles!)

My father had a skin complaint and could not shave. He grew a full face beard and kept it neatly groomed and it wasn't a problem to rational thinking people. But there were some who viewed it highly suspciously but it's always struck me that these people were the ones who weren't quite right up top anyway.

10

Can jws participate in abortions?

by badboy in

anyone know anything about this?

laurelin

Lesson 14
God?s Friends Avoid What Is Bad
Satan tempts people to do bad things. A person who wants to be God?s friend needs to hate what Jehovah hates. (Psalm 97:10) Here are some things that God?s friends avoid:Sexual sins. "You must not commit adultery." (Exodus 20:14) Having sex before marriage is also wrong.?1 Corinthians 6:18.Drunkenness. "Drunkards . . . will [not] inherit God?s kingdom."?1 Corinthians 6:10.Murder, Abortion. "You must not murder."?Exodus 20:13.Theft. "You must not steal."?Exodus 20:15.

That's from the God's Friend brochure page 22. And this one is from the God Requires brochure page 24:

Lesson 12
Showing Respect for Life and BloodHow should we view life? (1) abortion? (1)
1. Jehovah is the Source of life. All living things owe their life to God. (Psalm 36:9) Life is sacred to God. Even the life of an unborn child inside its mother is precious to Jehovah. To kill such a developing baby on purpose is wrong in God?s eyes.?Exodus 21:22, 23; Psalm 127:3.

There are loads of articles dotted throughtout the literature that discusses abortion.

Incidently did anyone see the latest news about unborn babies at 12 weeks? I didn't realise that you could abort up to 24 weeks. I am currently 23 weeks pregnant and it made me physically sick to think someone could still abort this far into pregnancy. I can feel it kicking inside me, I feel it moving around. I personally don't agree with abortion at any stage.

33

Why can't JW's eat from street vendors?

by TresHappy in

my parents said they received a directive from the society not to buy from the street vendors at the district convention.

is that just a unique situation?

i don't think this has to do with religion, but revenue...

laurelin

We used to have a fruit stall when they still had food. The amount of time and effort that went into running that stall was horrendous. The football stadium we always used (and still do) never provided their own vendors, instead they used to hire out the use of the food areas for us to use instead.

Outside the actual grounds food vendors used to park (loads of them) and we were always encouraged to use the food arrangements inside (some still went to them anyway) and it could be annoying from a purely selfish point of view. We'd worked out butts off to provide food and there would be some of the brothers etc wandering around with half cooked bacon butties (back in the days when Health and Safety standards were not hot in this country!).

However, when the food arrangement stopped (what relief!) we were only discouraged from using the vendors during the session times. (Which is understandable from the brothers on the platforms point of view). As for using the vendors these days, they do a roaring trade whenever we have a convention and one of them this year told us that that they much prefer selling to the witnesses than football fans as they don't have hours of clearing up to do afterwards, they never get sworn at or accused of diddling in the change department and this particular vendor even had a witness come back to him with over change that he'd given (30p).

I don't know what other convention sites are like but I know ours works well with the vendors and they now do a mean bacon buttie with onions and sauce.

21

1995 no big deal??

by Bubbamar in

when i discovered - only recently - the the masthead of the awake was changed in 1995 to eliminate "our creators promise" i found it apalling.

it was a promise people!!

i am curious, did the wtbts write articles or discuss this radical change or did they just slip it in?

laurelin

I was around when they made that change and it did have an impact on me. My dad who died in '97 had a lot to say about it. He and I (although he'd been ill for years) always thought he'd live to see Armageddon and when they changed the meaning it put that certainty into great doubt (Obviously he didn't). I got all upset about it and hot under the collar as I do and I remember he said to me: "Well it doesn't matter. I'm not serving God because he can save me. I'm serving God because I owe it to him for giving me life in the first place." It shut me up at the time. But not for long!

28

things I do not like about xmas

by zen nudist in

.

aside from the reasons jws give as it being a pagan holiday renamed..... i do not like the fact that parents think nothing of lying to their children about this mythical santa claus.

and the constant hollywood movies making anyone who exposes the gag as an evil monster...while giving children reasons to believe that santa claus really does exist after all...ignore your older friends who have been poisoned by the secular world.. i find it appalling to ever teach a child to simply expect people to give them things just because the calendar says a certain day.. i find the mindless devoution to christmas to be just as appalling as the brainwashing jws do against it... i see people in my office acting like german clocks... the clock strikes easter and the decorate the office, strikes holloween and they decorate again...strikes christmas and more decorations..... then the frets and worries over what to get who and how much to go into debt over it.. i knew one lady who spent over $300 on a child less than two and was very depressed about two weeks later when the novelty wore off and only very inexpensive things returned as the main attraction.

laurelin

I was born and raised a JW and as such have never celebrated christmas. I have to say that I've never missed it. I've always found it a relief not to have to get involved with all the pre and post stress it seems to cause. I worked for years in retail and the hype and moaning and grumbling and extra planning and work that Christmas caused started early August. We'd get Easter plans in October. It was all about money, money, money and I'm glad I haven't got caught up in it all, despite the true meanings behind it all.

I'm no scrooge and in fact I delight in being able to get something for my kids when I can afford it and not think "they have to wait till christmas or Birthday." My parents always used to get us Assembly presents and I think (in our congregation and my husbands at least) this was common amongst most JW families. Besides the times they'd come home and give us something just because they loved us and not because it was Christmas time and thereby expected.

I watched an interview with Janet Jackson once and she said one of the things she hated the most about being a JW was the missing Birthdays, Christmasses etc. I find that hard to understand, unless her family life was bad anyway. We knew were loved and that was the most important thing. Too many people place too much on toys and not enough on being together as a family. Not just once a year but every day.

With my own children I've seen that they would much rather we spend an hour playing with them and an empty box then they play on their own with a high tech toy. Christmas works at bringing families together (as long as the arguments don't start) but I always found it a shame that it was only a few days every year rather than every week or every day.

Having said all that I do have a weakness for fairy lights and street decorations.

9

607bce. An idiots guide needed please.

by laurelin in

i have read a lot of threads on here about 607 b.c.e.

and i find a lot of them confusing.. i'm not an idiot but neither am i that well versed in star charts and archeological finds and some of the threads here (that i've found) have left me even more confused as they often make reference to things i know nothing about.. does anyone out there know where i can find an easy to read and understand explanation of 607.. am i to understand that it's the bible that comes to the date 607 and no other secular evidence can be found?.

i'm not having a go at any of the threads here as i'm sure they are excellent threads, they just go right over the top of my head.. i can't get any access to books or anything like that due to home circumstances so anything online would be perfect.. i would be grateful for any help anyone can give me.. thanks.

laurelin

Thank you very much everyone.

You've given me loads to look over which I will after returning from the school trip!

Thanks again.

17

June 15th Watchtower -- A critque

by TD in

there is an ancient artist?s saying that states, "if you do not know your materials, all you do is express your inability to express yourself.

" an artist must know his materials and the ideal of a true artist is to know those materials so well that using them is as natural as breathing.

in the two companion articles, "rightly value your gift of life" and "be guided by the living god," the june 15th, 2004 issue of the watchtower proves beyond any doubt that its writers have attained that ideal with their chosen medium.

laurelin

Wow! This thread has been very useful to me.

I've always had a problem with the shifting of the thoughts on the use of blood. But this thread has given me a lot of help.

Thanks.

32

Why this is not xjw forum

by kls in

i used to wonder why with so many xjws on here ,or nearly xjws on this forum ,why it was not named so .

that way we would not have so many troll's and practicing jws come on this site looking for people in their own religion ( cough ) .

now when i see a newbie join and they are practicing jws ,i think maybe just maybe by them not knowing most here are out of the cult and they read the threads posted by so many knowing and knowledgable people on the forum ,that some may log off and actually think of some things that have seen.

laurelin

Thank you Wednesday. You've made me feel better.