I also remember at one of last year's apostafests some guy saying he actually got a letter from the elders when he was a senior in high school warning that school counselors recommending college were doing "Satan's work" and then he and the other kids in the congregation that were also seniors were counseled.
beebee
JoinedPosts by beebee
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87
OK, So I'm thinking about becoming a witness.
by MarkAnthony ini was raised roman catholic but stopped going about 25 years ago.
i was talking with someone i work with who is a jw and suggested i might look into it.
so here i am.............
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87
OK, So I'm thinking about becoming a witness.
by MarkAnthony ini was raised roman catholic but stopped going about 25 years ago.
i was talking with someone i work with who is a jw and suggested i might look into it.
so here i am.............
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beebee
Hey guys, isn't masturbation a no-no too?? I think Tyydyy told me that one... I'm not quite sure with that prohibition how any man, and most women could stay. What a choice - either lie (and be guilty before Jehober) or forgo??? Plus creative positioning, ie. doggy style??
Tsk, tsk.
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please don't try discourage me !
by Yvonne A in.
please read my reply at the end of just for jehovah's witnesses and please don't take offense as i haven't with your opinions.
thank you .
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beebee
I realize that some of these posts may be downright scary but surely you know that once you are baptised, you have committed your life. You will have committed your life to an organization that dictates what you read, what you are allowed to think (be careful not to say outloud anything you think that disagrees lest you be removed - disfellowshipped or disassociated), who you should call a friend, and that tells you that those in your family and inner circle that choose not to agree are to be shunned. Remember that an organization that discourages you from having any friend outside of the group, leaves you with absolutely nobody if you should want to leave or be forced out.
I asked a friend of mine who is an inactive witness and is considering resuming activity if she's ready to cut at least two of her children out of her life. You see, her kids, though not baptised, are not living lives that would make them acceptable "associations." They are not bad people, they are not criminals, they are not insane, mean or heartless. They just live by standards unacceptable to the WT. She said she would never let them do that. So then I asked her "if you are considering becoming active again for the purposes of finding a husband, and you accept that he is the head of household (as you must if you are a good dub) and HE says you must shun your children, what then? She was silent.
This woman is fortunate she was inactive and off their radar screen when she left her abusive husband, for active witness wives are not encouraged to leave abusive spouses, in fact they are told it is their fault and they need to be a better wife. If she'd been active at the time, any attempt to remarry would be considered a disfellowshipping event.
You say you don't want children, so maybe you are lucky, for it seems that few families have ALL their grown children remain in the org. This means almost every family in has been torn apart. The WT is more important than family. It is more important than self.
Some people like this structure. They like not having to make decisions or define their own social mores. If this is you, than maybe the WT is the right place. All anyone wants for you here is to really think hard and be sure that IF and when you commit, you are fully informed. Only someone or some organization that has something to hide fears information that may disprove their theories, beliefs or impede on their path to control.
If you do some research on the warning signs that you might be in an abusive relationship, you will find things listed that include:(this list borrowed from the Oprah website, link to follow)
This list was written by Hedda Nussbaum. Perhaps in the UK you didn't hear of her, but she was the common law wife of Joel Steinberg who was convicted of murdering their illegally adopted daughter maybe 10 years ago or so in New York. People never understood why she let him do that, or why she herself had sustained such major abuse and stayed (google her if you want the whole story). I've put a few of these items in italics for emphasis.
These guys do not come with warning labels, but Nussbaum now thinks she can spot an abusive man, or at least a controlling man with a capacity for abuse.
Nussbaum's List of Red Flags:- He pushes too far, too fast, planning your future together right away.
- He hates his mother and is nasty to her.
- He wants your undivided attention.
- He must always be in charge.
- He always has to win.
- He breaks promises all the time. ( I believe people were told in the last century that those alive in 1914 would never die)
- He can't take criticism and always justifies his actions.
- He blames someone else for anything that goes wrong.
- He's jealous of your close friends, family members, and all other men. (the borg basically tells you not to associate with anyone out).
- He always asks you where you went and whom you saw.
- He has extreme highs and lows that are unpredictable.
- He has a mean temper.
- He often says you don't know what you're talking about.
- He makes you feel like you're not good enough.
- He withdraws his love or approval as punishment.
- He pushes you to do things that make you feel uneasy, like taking the day off from work or even breaking the law.
Note how many of these items could be similarly applied to the Jehovah's Witness organization. Not all, but far too many for me to feel at ease. How does it make you feel?
Here's the link to this so you can view it in context: http://www.oprah.com/relationships/relationships_content.jhtml?contentId=con_200408_signs.xml§ion=Couplehood&subsection=Dating
This is why so many here are ENCOURAGING you to think and do some homework before you jump in. That's not meant to be discouraging, though I can see why it can feel that way when you so want this to be the answer to your prayers.
Please take care.
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Only Jehovah's Witnesses
by Yvonne A ini'm just new to this internet stuff and am studying with the jehovah's witnesses at present.please don't take my lack of knowledge as cheek.
i just want to know if it's meant to be only jehovah's witnesses using this site.
i fully intend to become baptised but was wondering if there's any security to prevent people who shouldn't be using the site and are maybe abusing it from doing so.
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beebee
unless she's lurking..it appears y'all have scared the poor girl off. I hope she is still reading. I find it so sad that someone not even in would be afraid to read, research and think before jumping head first.
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Bill Bowen on VH-1 discussing jw sex abuse!! (MichaelJackson biography)
by sf ini am, right now, watching vh-1's history of the jacksons and in particular, the charges filed against him.. they just showed how mrs. jackson became a devout jw, showed the kh, and a few wt mags.
then, without expecting it, there was bill bowen!
talking about the epidemic of abuse in this church.
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beebee
So...how come his mother could allow her son to have a birthday party for her and think that presents in paper bags somehow denies what it is??? Also why, if she was such a strong dub, did she repeatedly try to set him up with girls that were not dubs? Was the urge to prove he isn't gay stronger than finding him a "proper" wife?
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Did you gain any good character traits as a result of being a dub?
by beebee ini've never been a dub but i've been lurking around here on an off for about a year.
i came here to gain insight into my guy and it's been quite an eye-opening education.
thanks to all of you for all i have learned.
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beebee
I can hold my farts for two hours.
Odrade, I am laughing so hard....
To everyone else, yes I recognize how hard it can be to distinquish exactly what we learned and from whom; did we get it from our parents, our friends, or is it just inborn? I can also see where some influences are universal but may be twisted just a bit differently given a background in a specific religion.
For example, I have a controlling and abusive mother, I have certainly read about many who are similar on these boards, however the dub moms use the religion as their excuse for their behavior and use "Jehober will get you" threats to accomplish their goals. My mom doesn't have that luxury. She just bases her reasons on her personal paranoia (ANYTHING done that she doesn't like, done by anyone was indeed done explicitly to get her) and her internal belief that she alone holds the correct attitude and judgement on anything.
However some skills may well be more closely linked to the org...ie. public speaking skills. Anyone out there making a good living selling door-to-door? Public speaking has also been mentioned. Perhaps the gift of discretion as well. Surely years of living a double life and protecting those you care about has taught you how to keep a secret, or for that matter, how not to when you want vindication.
I notice in the few ex-dubs and one current dub in my life a greater tolerance for the differences in others (like race). Of course that tolerance and acceptance is greater in the ex-dubs rather than my friend the current dub, as I found out the hard way that the same tolerances extended to non-witnesses is NOT granted to EX-witnesses....tsk, tsk... Boy she blew me away! I saw a side of her I had no idea existed!
Anyway..I just wanted to give people a chance to reflect on the positive impact even a negative influence can have and to also gain better insight.
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Did you gain any good character traits as a result of being a dub?
by beebee ini've never been a dub but i've been lurking around here on an off for about a year.
i came here to gain insight into my guy and it's been quite an eye-opening education.
thanks to all of you for all i have learned.
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beebee
Ah common..surely someone has some good traits they can attribute to either being in, or what they learned on the way out??????
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beebee
I'm sorry to hear but as you've gathered from the others, she's under enormous pressure to steer clear of you. When is the baby due? I have no idea what state you are in but in any of the 50 US states, you have rights as a father she cannot deny you. Once the baby is born, she must allow visitation, though she can play games and try to block you before he's born. Talk to a lawyer. Most will meet with you for the initial consultation for free. If you are in CA, a lot of the county family courts have clinics where they are staffed with people who will help you file your papers for free (they can't give legal advice though so you should still talk to a lawyer first).
In a nutshell, you will likely be ordered to pay child support, and she will have to give visitation. In many states, joint custody is almost the given and you can certainly ask for joint custody. In some states they split "legal" custody (the right to sign legal documents such as school papers or a hospital admission form) and "physical" (where they primarily live) custody. For example I have joint legal custody and sole physical custody of my girls. These days it would have more likely been joint on both issues. You need the legal custody for emergency purposes. You won't likely get sole physical custody unless she is incapable of taking proper care of the child, and that's a tough burden to prove. I don't recommend trying unless there's a darn good reason. Breast feeding is not a reason to limit your visitation. Even breast fed babies can take a bottle some of the time.
You will likely have to prove legal paternity. She can admit you are the father or be a jerk and make you prove it with a test. Some states will order you both into mediation to figure out custody and visitation. If they don't require it, I recommend you insist on it. That way you have a professional, neutral party who can help reinforce to her that, like it or not, you are the dad and your baby needs you in his life too.
It can be an emotionally wrenching task when one parent tries to deny the other. If she continues to try to exclude you, many jurisdictions will allow you to take custody. They can also order her into counseling, etc.
Use the time between now and then to educate yourself on your rights and your local legal processes. Make sure you have your own life in order and are equipped to father your child. Believe in yourself and you'll make it through.
Didn't you say in one post she IS 18, or is she really below legal age? If she's 18, then only she can stop you from talking alone.
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Did you gain any good character traits as a result of being a dub?
by beebee ini've never been a dub but i've been lurking around here on an off for about a year.
i came here to gain insight into my guy and it's been quite an eye-opening education.
thanks to all of you for all i have learned.
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beebee
I've never been a dub but I've been lurking around here on an off for about a year. I came here to gain insight into my guy and it's been quite an eye-opening education. Thanks to all of you for all I have learned. I have yet to post a question. At the urging of a friend, here is my first.
My guy is an interesting and amazing person and while I know there are many factors that have "made" him into the person he is, I can't help but believe some of the good traits are in deed a result of his JW experience. Now mind you I am not trying to promote the cult. Not after what I've seen and learned.
However if you believe that we are all currently the cummulative result of our histories, then it is logical to believe that things either learned from the borg or things learned after leaving, that you would have not likely learned if you hadn't been in, are certainly impacting your life and personality now. Since most of you have been both "in" and "out" you are in the position to assess this theory.
What positive impact has your history of either being in the org, or having left the org, had on the person you are now?
An example, the forementioned guy when he married, genuinely believed he would be married to his wife forever. I have seen in him an amazing ability to analyze and think about our differences (when we argue or disagree) and come back to me calmly, discuss the problem and offer up ideas on how to fix them. In this day and age, I am far more used to partners who sulk unless they get their way, or just run off seeking someone more "agreeable." As a result of his skill at this (and me learning from it) we have a healthy and growing relationship I genuinely enjoy. I do believe the fact that he bought into the "marriage for life" doctrine, that he developed this sound skill so that his marriage would be as good as possible (of course maybe his former wife wants to lay claim to having taught him..if this is the case..thank you.)
I also think he has learned even more in the process of coming out and being out. It is pretty cool to stand by and watch him see things in a "virgin" light that I, a mere "worldy" mortal, take for granted. It's almost like watching a baby learn the world, except that this "baby" has the maturity and thinking processes of an adult so the understanding is far deeper.
So that's why I pose the question as to the impact this has had on you. I enjoy seeing the world through different eyes. Tell your stories, please.
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Kids in handcuffs
by Tigerman in.
what's the story on those two kids in florida who were arrested for drawing ' violent pictures' ?
anybody know ?
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beebee
I lost the news report. Do you have a link? I saw the headline this am and immediately thought of this twisted little website - stickdeath.com. My kids think it's hilarious (and I watch what they do, but saw they lost interest quickly). It's basically stick people doing things that cause blood, like ripping another stick figure's head off. Twisted for sure, but something to arrest a child for imitating? No way.
Besides drawing is an expression, not an act. I would want to find out why they drew what they did. These kids were old enough to be skillful past the stick figure level so it was no accident that was the form they used, hence I really think it might have been a copy of the above website. However, asking questions to determine if their are upsetting issues in their lives is important. Kids do sometimes use art as an expression of what they are feeling.
However, boys will be boys. I don't allow guns in the house yet my son used to make them out of legos. I hope it truly pans out to be nothing, but would love to see the reason they felt a need to arrest children for drawing.