Posts by arachnia

32

Top Five Ways To Annoy WTS at Assembles

by metatron in

jw
friends

i suppose you could annoy the watchtower simply by.

doing the opposite of everything those dreary kingdom.

ministries tell you every year - like let your kids.

arachnia

LOL Xander....

Well they are in sort of an anarcho-syndicalist commune, eh?

Common Traits between the commune in the Holy Grail and the WT Society

--Take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week
(or for decades at a time in the case of the WT President).

--All the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting. By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more.

--The violence inherent in the system!

--Unwavering belief that theirs is the right and only way to live.

Well, perhaps the points are weak but as I'm writing this on about three hours of sleep that's the most sense I can make of it. ;)

And Obed, very cool merch! I want an Apostate Slut shirt in black, not white, though. :D Hee hee....HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed! ;)

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

14

Hello

by raven101 in

jw
friends

hello all, referred here from ex-jw pagans site.

looks pretty active and interesting, far too late for any witty rapport on my part but hello just the same!

arachnia

Thanks mouthy! Hopefully this webhost change doesn't keep the site down for too long in the next couple of days so that people can see it. ;x

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

14

Hello

by raven101 in

jw
friends

hello all, referred here from ex-jw pagans site.

looks pretty active and interesting, far too late for any witty rapport on my part but hello just the same!

arachnia

Hey Xander...

ex-jw pagans
What, really?
Where?

[link] http://www.exjwpagans.org[/link]

C'mon over and have a look...but be warned I just initiated a webhost change tonight so there may be outages in the next couple of days while the DNS replicates around the globe. Just keep checking back and hitting the "refresh" button on your browser. :)

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

31

Email from a JW and our correspondence

by mpatrick in

jw
friends

i received this original email from [email protected] in regards to post i had made on the jw discussion forum on www.beliefnet.org .

hello mpatrick , ya know alot of the things that you quote i question are still in the truth , i am sorry if i affend you.

im 26 from new jersey and where are the true witnesses .

arachnia

I receive emails scolding me for my departure from the JW's similiar in tone to this, where the author is someone who was raised JW and rebelled, became "worldly" and is now looking to re-join the JW ranks or already has. They appeal to me that I know it's really "the trooth" and so on, and since they are returning, perhaps I should consider it too, because the world has "nothing to offer" and is a "pit of vipers."

I'm always left wondering what exactly they did, and who exactly they did it with, etc., to lead them to believe that any life outside of the JW's is self-destructive to the extreme. I suppose some, upon leaving the JW's, especially if they do this in their teens, believe everything they've seen and heard the "world" depicted as in the WT rhetoric and figure that is how *all* non-JW's live. Drugs, whoring around, bad associations, etc., so that's exactly how they must live if they aren't going to be JW.

Most of the "worldly" people, of which I am one now, I suppose, do not live that way. Most are decent people, and those with problems typically can either work them out on their own, with help from family/friends, etc. Some need professional therapy, but it's the exception. (On the other hand, nearly all of my ex-JW friends have required it somewhere along the way.) People are generally good. Just because the WT Society says they are evil doesn't make it so. I think what happens when some of these people (usually kids) leave, their worldview is completely molded on WT concepts and being immature, they don't recognize the need (much less have the ability) to re-shape their worldview outside of the constraints of a cult mentality.

Not everyone who leaves the JW's goes off the deep end and becomes self-destructive. It's sad that these folks don't know that. Unfortunately, they only see two choices in life rather than the multitude that actually exist. Pity.

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

33

Yet another personality Test-Star Wars

by VeniceIT in

jw
friends

http://www.sluis-van.com/personality/index.shtml .

i was an r2-d2 type.

ven

arachnia

I'm Palpatine. <g>

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

88

Bill Bowens Trail of Naivete

by Psychdigg in

jw
friends

i did a search on bill bowens postings in this forum.

very interesting.

revealing!.

arachnia

I am a "cultural" JW. You've heard of the distinction between an Orthodox Jew and a Cultural Jew? I look to the Watchtower because they are my "tribe".(3rd Generation JW going back to IBSA)
Scandal is a modern past time. I feel bad that the Catholic Church has to suffer from this kind of accusation. Religion serves a strong function in reminding people that they are MORE than animals. But the MORE part is simply a thin veneer over our evolutionary history. There is a tendency of JW's to blame war on religion. This only happens when nationalism grabs religion for its own aims.
When you discredit a religion you are doing untold damage to the moral compass of its members. In the case of child molestation this doesn't make people safer. It exposes them to the poison of relativism. It is unfortunate that Bowen's attack on JW's is a result of his JW training - which tends to be anti-philosophical. He lacks a broad context.

By your comments regarding the function of religion, and criticism of the JW training as anti-philosophical, may I infer that you are an advocate of philosophy? I ask this because I agree entirely that the Watchtower is anti-philosophical, particularly anti-Logic. If you subscribe to Logic and philosophy, I cannot see how you can truthfully reconcile that with Watchtower teachings. If you do subscribe to logic and philosophy, how do you reconcile your trust in the Watchtower as a guiding post in your life, if their thinking runs counter to your own? "You cannot slave for two masters."

The press is an all too willing player in this. The result is that children will NOT be measurably safer.

Why will children not be measurably safer if exposure of the policy that has allowed them to be placed in jeapordy is exposed and thus, we hope, forcibly changed to insure their safety. Is your argument that this is not possible because the Watchtower will refuse to change or will not implement true changes, and will only pay lip service to protecting children in order to get the public off their backs? If that is not true, what is your argument here?

Children need to be educated to the dangers of molestation just as they are to the dangers of drugs. Some parents feel it robs kids of their youth if you educate them in the MO of sexual predators. Kids need to be taught that NO one ought to touch them in certain places. They need to be taught that they shouldn't look at dirty pictures etc.

I wholeheartedly agree that children must be educated about predators so that they can be avoided. However, I suspect most JW children ARE warned of these dangers by their parents and may also have been warned of this by programs at their school. However, they have been raised to believe that because JW's are "god's chosen people" and therefore can all be trusted - a "brotherhood of love and unity." Gaining a child's trust is a key element in the molestation process. Children generally feel safe in their little bubble of existance within the JW's because they have been told it's a safe place by those whom they love and trust, their parents, and the other JW's that they consider to be like family. Those that manipulate that trust in order to molest them are the problem.

You will never get rid of the predators.

If the JW elders are required to report pedophiles to the "worldly" authorities, there is indeed a very strong chance that the predators will spend time in jail. This protects children.

Further, (if and) when the predator gets out of jail and wants to return to the congregation, they should be marked as a pedophile so that parents can be aware of this person and avoid allowing their children around them. No, it's not an easy mark to carry. But they chose it when they decided to molest a child. Choice = Consequence. Besides, they are in all likelihood going to end up on the public sex offender list in their state, so letting other church members know that this person has the very serious and probable tendency to abuse again should be a moral imperative for the church leadership.

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

88

Bill Bowens Trail of Naivete

by Psychdigg in

jw
friends

i did a search on bill bowens postings in this forum.

very interesting.

revealing!.

arachnia

Psychdigg, your comments were directed to Simon, but as this is a public board and this discussion is as well:

The Catholic Church fell under scrutiny because of the victims and their advocates continuing to speak up in spite of being told that they had no credibility. Over time, people listen. Numbers come out. Lawsuits are won. It's all over the news. Regardless of whether records are public or private, in many states in the US it is now law that even in confidential relationships such as therapists, doctors, or clergy, if any evidence of child molestation has occured, that information cannot be kept private, it must be divulged to public officials so that it can be examined in light of the law.

How would you qualify the evidence being brought forth by the victims and their advocates in terms of anecdotal versus statistical? Whose authority would you accept in determining the statistics? Regardless of these labels, the fact remains - CHILDREN HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY MOLESTED. This has happened in the context of religion, and many of the perpetrators have not been held accountable, and continue to operate in an environment free from restraint, so that they certainly have the capability to abuse again.

As to the issue of religions being directed by god or not, it's an irrelevant argument from my standpoint. Another red herring. The issue here is child molestation, not the divorce rate of JW's. It is also not about the rate of drug use in the US, prostitution, or even the blood transfusion issue. It is about child molestation, and a religion permitting it to occur.

Finally, as for your contention that the parents are responsibile for what has happened to their children, your attempt to blame-shift away from the WT really tells me that you are working for their defense here. That's the typical response whenever the WT gets taken to task for something - shift the blame to individuals within the organization, whether that's local elders, congregations, or in this case, the parents. How dare you insinuate that the parents are to blame. The only thing they are to blame for is trying to act faithfully within the context of the brainwashing they've undergone in the name of religion. They are told that nothing as horrible as that could happen amongst "god's chosen people." They are taught to deny any sense of scrutiny they might have towards the organization because they are "the faithful and discreet slave" that god uses to "dispense spiritual food at the proper time." If you are a WT loyalist, deep down you *know* this. Fortunately, some parents woke up to see what was happening, and left so that their children will be protected.

By your argument, the best thing that parents can do to protect their children is to leave the JW religion to make them safe from pedophiles who will continue to persist. I must say, I agree with that, but I'm not sure that's the conclusion you are hoping people reach.

Again, what's your angle? What is driving you here to make the arguments that you have? You have obviously had at the very least association with the JW's, and its more likely that you are a long-time JW yourself due to the inferences you have made ("Half of Jehovah's Witness marriages end up in divorce (from my experience of 70 witness weddings in the last 40 years that I have attended"; "I
personally would like to see a drama at assemblies about this
issue." and the like) and the loyalty you have displayed towards the WT by attempting to silence its critics. What's your motivation?

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

88

Bill Bowens Trail of Naivete

by Psychdigg in

jw
friends

i did a search on bill bowens postings in this forum.

very interesting.

revealing!.

arachnia

Arachnia:
1. Since Bill Bowen behaves hypocritically THEREFORE he is a hypocrite. (That's my argument)

If that is indeed your argument, then support it without resorting to logical fallacies. You have failed to impress upon me how he is acting hypocritically. You have, however, used personal attacks and red herrings, which invalidate anything you have to say. Your approach seems to indicate that you have an interest in defending the WT Society. What is your interest in this matter? What's your angle? Why are you here attacking Bill's character and motivation?

2. Jehovah's Witnesses are a hot bed of child molestation. (Bills Argument)

Do you contend that a problem does not exist?

Bill Bowen makes inuendos & spins scenarios of the percentage of JW's that are molesters. He has no absolute numbers. Are some who claim to be JW's molesters?. Yes. Is it as bad as Bill Bowen claims? Without hard evidence NO!!.

Most assuredly, hard numbers would be helpful. But, like the situation with the Catholic church for so many years, those numbers are very difficult to ascertain because the church leaders are not willing to divulge them for fear of repercussions. However, Bill saw quite enough in terms of cases of pedophilia to motivate him to speak up about the issue, which gave others the courage to do so, and over time, more will continue to stand up. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The same sort of things were said for YEARS about the Catholic Church. There were naysayers such as yourself who said that either the victims were lying, suffering from false memories, or that they were simply isolated cases. It wasn't until the media got involved and spread the news, and lawsuits started being won by victims that the church started admitting numbers. You can see what has happened now.

I will not attempt to argue the numbers. However, I do know that *too many* children have suffered specifically because the WT Policy, and without people like those who have had the courage to protest the policy (Bill being amoungst that number, but not the only one) this issue would never come to light and children will continue to suffer. Gotthold Ephraim Lessing once said, "A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes." Choosing to remove the Watchtower veil of fear they have worn for so long has caused these good folks to see what is going on, not just in their own congregation, but organization wide, and they have the bravery to stand up and do something about it.

The controversial stance taken by these dissenting members is drawing focus and scrutiny on the WT organization, which attempts to defend itself by firing salvos in the way of personal attacks and threats of excommunication at anyone who would challenge their modus operandi.

"Being right too soon is socially unacceptable." --Robert Heinlein

The only reason you accept such false claims is because you are blinded by your hatred of the Watchtower organization.

Ah, so now they are "false claims" are they? There is no such thing as pedophilia taking place in the Land of Oz is there? Nice try to sneak that in. Unfortunately, all too many of us know it is simply not true.

And as far as my personal feelings towards the Watchtower, any negativity I hold against that organization is a direct result of their actions, their policies, and the harm they have inflicted on their members for over a century. If you are a Watchtower representative, you have the ability to know of what I speak, but have chosen to ignore it. If you are simply someone who wandered in here without any knowledge of the Watchtower, then you have absolutely no right to preach to anyone here about our "hatred" of the Watchtower.

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

88

Bill Bowens Trail of Naivete

by Psychdigg in

jw
friends

i did a search on bill bowens postings in this forum.

very interesting.

revealing!.

arachnia

Hey Psychodigg and Hilda, how's the weather in New York? Are you upstate or looking out at the Manhattan skyline? So, things must be pretty tense at HQ, huh? I mean, what else could merit this sort of attack on one of the nerve centers of support for the expose of WT policy on child molestation?

Personal attacks and Red Herrings. Ah, two of the hallmarks of a desperate (and ineffective) defense. If you had a valid argument, you would not have to resort to logical fallacies such as these.

Back to the drawing board, children.

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran

31

An Un-Invitation Card

by ozziepost in

"do witnesses break up families?

" has been a common topic over the years.

this topic has been brought home to mrs ozzie and i by the following 'un-invitation card'.

arachnia

I agree with District Overseer when he suggests sending a card expressing dignified sadness and regret that they feel the way that they do. Be sure to keep it sad, not mad, because anger will only give them more ammo to "prove" that you are in the wrong. (After all, if let them see you are angry, it only proves to them you are defensive because of feeling guilty about something.)

Remember, this is *their* issue, not yours. Do not take ownership of it by accepting responsibility for their decision on the basis that you have done something "wrong." Be the better person. Send the gift and the card and while it might not affect them immediately, it will have to sit in the back of their mind and gnaw at them at the very least. And even if it doesn't, you've acted with more grace and dignity than have they, and can be the one to look yourself in the mirror without regretting your actions.

Good luck and hang in there. :) It's never easy.

Cheers,
~arachnia

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."
-Kahlil Gibran