Posts by dubstepped

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

dubstepped

The WTS is the poster child for Hassan's description of using mild control techniques. Step by step by step they fit the pattern. That is not and cannot be an unconscious coincidence.

My thought on this point is that those mind control techniques that were observed were just that, observed. In other words, instead of being a set game plan that is intentionally executed, they are merely the traits exhibited in high control environments. As such a pattern, observed in various organizations, it actually would be a coincidence, wouldn't it? Just like people that are enablers often follow the same patterns of codependence, or the way that any set of humans seem to follow the same group behavioral patterns. The enabler doesn't sit down and go through a step by step checklist of how to manipulate another human being, they just behave a certain way that others in similar circumstances follow as patterns of human behavior responsive to certain circumstances.

It's kind of like I have ADHD. I had no clue that I had it until in my thirties. I had certain issues in life, and then found this group of people that had the same behavioral patterns, even a checklist of them (the DSM). I never set out to act a certain way, my behaviors were just indicative of an issue that I had, not intentional at all.

26

How many of you actually "contributed"?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

guys,.

don't tell the elders, buuuuut, i sorta kinda maybe never contributed money....ever..... i always thought - hey, i give a lot of my time and energy to the org, so that's how i contribute.

i was also pretty stinkin poor for most of my life and didn't really have the money to give.. anyone else like me?.

dubstepped

I grew up poor and never knew what it felt like to have extra money to give. As an adult I was always in debt and made dumb financial moves because nobody taught me anything about money. So, I had nothing to give. I did eventually get right side up in life financially and gave some, but not much. Giving to an impersonal organization is hard for me. I love to give now that I have the means, but I'd rather find someone and make a gift that I can see impact someone.

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

dubstepped

I think it is just zealotry that has gotten out of hand. You can see a lot of the same mind control tactics employed by parents. Heck, my parents (before and after they came in contact with JW's) employed a lot of the same things. They were very controlling in part because they wanted the best for us, and in part because they were narcissists who just didn't want us kids to be "problems" for them. I see the same with the organization. I think that they have overstepped to the point of trying to become the consciences of their followers, which is very controlling, but in my view it is well-intentioned overreaching. If you look at pretty much any group of humans, leaders will eventually emerge, and they will eventually overreach. It is a very human thing to do.

15

[REPOST] Memorial Non-Attendance: The Single Most Impactful TTATT Witness to Family and Friends

by AMNESIANO in

jw
friends

(originally posted march, 2014)anyone who has awakened to ttatt and has conscientiously left the organization--especially a once-prominent, highly-regarded, studious believer from a prominent multi-generational tribe of jws-- after decades of devout, high-profile "serve-us," who continues to put in an annual appearance at the memorial thoroughly subverts and undermines, by this one act, any hope s/he may entertain that his/her departure will stir family or former friends to question the whole watchtower bamboozle.

by this one concession s/he assigns him-/herself by every single jw to their handy and dimissive purgatory: the "spiritually-weak.".

nothing blasts a louder, clearer, and more deliberate message to the jws who personally knew you and those familiar with your jw bona fides that you are not merely "not making the meetings," "inactive," or "spiritually-weak," but that there is a conscientious reason you have rejected the entire watchtower society life than choosing to forego what they know you once believed to be jehovah's must-attend, one-and-only, holy/sacred event of the year for his people, the lord's evening meal.. you hand them the very justification they so relish to self-righteously label you as a "submarine witness" deserving of jehovah's, and more importantly, their judgement.

dubstepped

Part of my newfound mental freedom is freedom from caring what others think. I'll be there because it is about me (and my wife) and Jehovah/Jesus, and I'm not worried about what others think anymore. People can take our presence as they wish, for good or for bad. They aren't my friends and never were, and as such don't get to project their expectations into my life anymore. I see it as one chance I have to go do something that I can actually be in agreement with and to let the rest fall where it may. I value the relationship that I've built with Jehovah since having my eyes opened (I had no such thing while doing all of the "right" things inside the congregation) and see this as a way to show my appreciation.

17

Jehovahs Witness Shunning & the Crusades

by freemindfade in

while discussing being mistreated by my own jw family last night with my wife, i wanted to try to make her think critically about what shunning really is, and at its root what how beneficial it is.

earlier in the day i sent her non-apostate scholarly article on religious shunning being tantamount to psychological torture.

and most witnesses don't think into much about why they do things, its more of a "this is the way we do it, don't over think it" process.

dubstepped

That whole "psychological torture" deal is a reason that after ten years I reached out to my disfellowshipped brother. I started to think for myself and felt bad carrying that out on another human being. His relationship with Jehovah or whatever he believes in is his choice, not up to me to enforce somehow. It is just mean, despite the claims of love as a motivator. I can see the enormous damage done to him anf hate that I had any part in it. I know that I wad just following the program instilled in me as a kid, but I can't stomach intentionally hurting other people under the guise of love to try anf control them. I'm trying NOT to be the narcissists that I grew up with.

30

Just Want To Be Heard

by dubstepped in

i've been lurking here for a while now, and i guess you could call me a fader.

i don't have hate in my heart for the organization that i spent most of my life in, but i have had an awakening.

luckily, so has my wife, and that way i don't feel so alone.

dubstepped

So many posts to address, but I'll again chime in with a heartfelt "thanks" for the kind words.

When I said what I said about not hating the dubs, that was just to state where I was, not meant as an indictment against any who feel that way. I totally understand the hate, and honestly I've been there at times when the pain got too big. I know that people want to label any dissenters as "apostates" and "evil", but what I see here is tremendous pain. Every person that I've ever talked to that was once a dub and that isn't any longer seems to have an abundance of hurt inside over many things. Hurt shows that a person still cares, as the opposite of love isn't hate, it is apathy. People wouldn't spend their time on sites like this if they didn't still care on some level, whether they care for the reputation of Jehovah, for their friends and family still in the organization, for the pain that they themselves endured at the hand of the organization, or whatever.

Also, just to add a little background without too many specifics, this journey isn't new to us. We've been inactive for a few years, as we could no longer invite others to join us in an organization that we weren't feeling good about. That's disingenuous, and just not our style. This has been coming for some time. I've had to fight through tremendous cognitive issues to come to a site like this where people openly speak negative of something that I once held so dear. In fact, I asked my wife if it was okay for me to post here because I didn't want to offend her. I also didn't want to feel like I was somehow furthering hatred of JW's. I just wanted to feel like others understood, even though I knew many did from reading her for some time.

I really appreciate your responses, more than you'll probably ever know, even if I don't necessarily agree with everything. It is nice to not feel compelled to think and feel a certain way like I was for so many years.

30

Just Want To Be Heard

by dubstepped in

i've been lurking here for a while now, and i guess you could call me a fader.

i don't have hate in my heart for the organization that i spent most of my life in, but i have had an awakening.

luckily, so has my wife, and that way i don't feel so alone.

dubstepped

Sorry to hear that^^^^^^. I've read many similar experiences on here and on other sites, and it would be so much tougher without my wife on board. I'm not sure I could do it, as I've had a lot of emotions bursting forth and if she wasn't on board it would have been really ugly. Best wishes man.

30

Just Want To Be Heard

by dubstepped in

i've been lurking here for a while now, and i guess you could call me a fader.

i don't have hate in my heart for the organization that i spent most of my life in, but i have had an awakening.

luckily, so has my wife, and that way i don't feel so alone.

dubstepped

I haven't figured out how to quote on this style of forum yet, but I lol'ed at Billy's poem. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and as you know, that will get you everywhere.

30

Just Want To Be Heard

by dubstepped in

i've been lurking here for a while now, and i guess you could call me a fader.

i don't have hate in my heart for the organization that i spent most of my life in, but i have had an awakening.

luckily, so has my wife, and that way i don't feel so alone.

dubstepped

Thanks for the welcome! Sorry the spacing in my poem is all messed up. I tried multiple times to space it out, and it seems to revert back no matter what I do.

I've always seen things that made me question, and I've never been anyone's favorite because I would ask questions or challenge things. A quote that I recently came across on a podcast really struck me:

Run with those that search for truth, and run like hell from those that claim to have found it.

I think that the organization has a lot going for it. However, their laying claim to "The Truth" and refusal to apologize or acknowledge specific wrongs or imperfections set up a standard that they themselves can't live up to. It is funny that I've always been the guy to question things but for so many years I followed so many things with blind acceptance. Even funnier is that now that I'm no longer following blindly I've become a better student of the Bible because I can't just trust their interpretation of things as is.

My wife and I both grew up in messed up families and very rigid congregations which limited our social structures and abilities. As such, we're now learning how to stretch our wings and fly a bit, reaching out to new experiences and the possibilities of building some relationships that aren't narcissistic like we're used to from our families and those around us. Thanks for the well wishes. :)

30

Just Want To Be Heard

by dubstepped in

i've been lurking here for a while now, and i guess you could call me a fader.

i don't have hate in my heart for the organization that i spent most of my life in, but i have had an awakening.

luckily, so has my wife, and that way i don't feel so alone.

dubstepped

I've been lurking here for a while now, and I guess you could call me a fader. I don't have hate in my heart for the organization that I spent most of my life in, but I have had an awakening. Luckily, so has my wife, and that way I don't feel so alone. However, I have a lot of pain inside, and nobody to really share it with. I don't want to talk to particularly about my situation, as I'm a bit paranoid that someone will find me out and I'll lose what little I have. Actually, I don't have any friends anyway in the organization, as they only talk to me inside the Kingdom Hall and not often there, as I've never been in the cool club. I really don't have any family either, but my wife has some, and I don't want to cause her problems.

I do love Jehovah, which may ruffle the feathers of some. I know that there's a wide array of people here, some that don't believe in any god, many that hate the one that Witnesses worship, and probably everything in between. To each his or her own. I don't hate Jehovah's Witnesses and don't ascribe all of the negative motives to them that some do, as I generally see them as well intentioned. However, I do see them as overzealous to the point of lunacy and a cult like following which creeps me out. I learned a lot of things growing up that really hurt me, but I've spent the past many years really widening my perspectives on things and learning how to be a better human being, not just a better dub. My wife and I have grown a lot as people and are much happier now, though things with my family are incredibly rocky. Lots of pain there, but I can't blame all of their dysfunction on dubdom, they came by a lot of it in their own histories.

Anyway, I wrote a little something to lay out some of my feelings. It isn't like I can share them anywhere else, especially anywhere that anyone would appreciate them. I'm certainly no poet, but I like to put my feelings out in rhyme to whatever extent sometimes just to help me get them out. So, here goes..........

Haunted

By the things I was told

That I'd never grow up, never grow old

Punished

Watched my brother get disfellowshipped

Another bird whose wings got clipped

Appearance

Dad gave public talks on happy family life

But was much different with his own kids and wife

Fear

Of doing something wrong

About doing enough, being enough, to find out that I really don't belong

Friends

Supposedly identified by our love, but marked by cliques

Never found outside those four wall of bricks

Paranoia

The world is evil, the deck is stacked

It's just a matter of time until we're all viciously attacked

Alone

With my pain, with nobody to hear

Cognitive dissonance won't allow for anything but kingdom cheer

Change

The internet is a trap, electronics a distraction

Until the organization decides to get a piece of that action

Black or White

You're wrong or you're right

Nothing in the middle, it's the truth or a lie

Conditional Love

As long as I do what you want

But as soon as I stop, it was all just a front

Hyperbole

Not everyone that overcomes adversity becomes a pioneer,

The rest go to Bethel or become a circuit overseer

Truth

Is seen as absolute, all good with no bad inside,

But we expound on the good while the bad we hide

Happiness

Whoa is me, everything is bad

Let's look to the future, as today is too sad

Work

Is a drudgery, something to endure

If you enjoy what you do, you're investing too much in this world for sure

Shame

I am my thoughts and as good as dead

Because I can't control what goes on in my head

I've got something to say

I just want someone to listen

I learned about Jehovah

But something was missin'

I did all the right things

But didn't feel the love

Now as I finally find myself

I actually see help from above