Posts by dubstepped

11

Disfellowshipping is an loving arrangment. NOT!!!!

by gma-tired2 in

alert this is a rant.

recently i lost someone very special to me to death.

she was so many things to me, my cousin, best friend, and next door neighbor thru our teens.

dubstepped

First let me say that I'm so sorry to hear this experience. It is sad that JW's don't let love govern their actions and reactions and instead have become so rule oriented and rigid.

Second, the title of this thread is something has really been hammered home by the brothers and sisters but that doesn't hold water. It was always explained that it was to help the erring one to return to Jehovah. But if their relationship with Jehovah hangs on blackmailing them into coming back simply to avoid shunning, what relationship is there really? And if this is all supposedly about a relationship between Jehovah and that person, why am I somehow put in the middle of it? Their relationship is between them and Jehovah, not them and me. Not to mention that some just change their mind on what they choose to believe, which is their personal decision. Why do we then have to treat them as less than any other "worldly" person? Doesn't make sense to me.

15

One day assembly

by Sour Grapes in

jw
friends

at a recent one day assembly i walked away with the thought that the wtbts sure does not like witnesses who have the opportunity to make a good living.

there were, in one day, three experiences of witnesses who turned down "6 figure salaries" because there would be some traveling involved and some meetings would be missed as well as missing family worship night.

i thought it strange that the exact phrase was used of "6 figure salary".

dubstepped

Oh man, this is a sore spot for me. At the international convention one of the GB (I believe, may be wrong) gave a talk where he related an experience of some brother that cut his income to less than half but somehow now made more money because he didn't have to pay so many taxes. I really doubt the guy was paying 50% income tax. They seem to have no concept of money. I grew up poor in the organization, and although we didn't have enough food at times without gifts from others or government assistance and of course we weren't getting new toys or anything, we certainly had time to go out and pioneer with our parents as young kids.

At an assembly locally a family was up on stage as a shining example of how to live on the government and pioneer, and it made me sick. I hustle in my cleaning business and break my back because I was turned away from full ride scholarships and several unique business opportunities because I knew that the world was going to end and the right thing to do was to pioneer. I walked away from opportunities that could have actually given me a better chance at earning a living part-time to promote kingdom interests while not eating dog food to survive and that was looked at as bad. I wonder how many dubs have anything saved for retirement. I know so many that live off of government assistance, which was meant for those that couldn't do better for themselves, not for those who chose not to. I make decent money, but only because I work harder, not smarter.

145

Why attack?

by newqatarjob in

as someone brought up as a jw and been an elder and been disfellowshipped (twice!!!

) i find it difficult to understand why ex jws have to attack the religion, yes religion, not cult or sect.

i am no longer disfellowshipped just do not want to practice anymore.

dubstepped

I kind of feel like the OP a bit. Mostly on the "live and let live" part. Some of the threads here are people looking to make something out of nothing, really stretching to try and make the dubs look bad. Have I been victimized by the organization? You bet. Am I hurting and still kind of on edge? Yep. Do I want to stay in victim mode and devote the rest of my life to proving a negative, or to find something positive to dwell on? Give me something positive that moves forward rather than the negativity of the past, carrying it forth daily into the future.

13

Remember this scripture: kindly yoke, light load, refreshment for your soul...

by Muddy Waters in

matthew 11:28-30 "come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and i will refresh you.

29 take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for i am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and you will find refreshment for yourselves.

30 for my yoke is kindly, and my load is light.. do you remember this scripture?

dubstepped

I never felt like they told me that I should feel. There were tons of "shoulds" and when I didn't measure up, I figured there must be something wrong with me. Now, it turns out that I grew up in a ridiculously emotionally abusive home and my emotions were pretty much walled off to protect me, but regardless I would watch people have certain intense feelings about things that I could never experience.

Since being away, I've come to realize that lots of the feelings that people have are just romanticized ideals. They are about as real as ladies reading ridiculous romantic novels that aren't how anyone would possibly act or react. JW's have a list of romanticized "shoulds" and they parrot these over the top feelings and works so as to fit in, when in reality they aren't how anyone would really feel or speak about the subject at hand. You just feel more "spiritual" if you do and say the right things. So much of what was said in magazines and from the platform wasn't relating to me because it seemed puffed up to be more than it was. All of the busy work that I was supposed to go ape over was just part of it. I did it all, but just got worn down. It never felt like the "privilege" that I was told it was, and in the end I just felt "used" in the congregation, like the verbiage often states, but not in the way they intend it.

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

dubstepped

The WTS is the poster child for Hassan's description of using mild control techniques. Step by step by step they fit the pattern. That is not and cannot be an unconscious coincidence.

My thought on this point is that those mind control techniques that were observed were just that, observed. In other words, instead of being a set game plan that is intentionally executed, they are merely the traits exhibited in high control environments. As such a pattern, observed in various organizations, it actually would be a coincidence, wouldn't it? Just like people that are enablers often follow the same patterns of codependence, or the way that any set of humans seem to follow the same group behavioral patterns. The enabler doesn't sit down and go through a step by step checklist of how to manipulate another human being, they just behave a certain way that others in similar circumstances follow as patterns of human behavior responsive to certain circumstances.

It's kind of like I have ADHD. I had no clue that I had it until in my thirties. I had certain issues in life, and then found this group of people that had the same behavioral patterns, even a checklist of them (the DSM). I never set out to act a certain way, my behaviors were just indicative of an issue that I had, not intentional at all.

26

How many of you actually "contributed"?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

guys,.

don't tell the elders, buuuuut, i sorta kinda maybe never contributed money....ever..... i always thought - hey, i give a lot of my time and energy to the org, so that's how i contribute.

i was also pretty stinkin poor for most of my life and didn't really have the money to give.. anyone else like me?.

dubstepped

I grew up poor and never knew what it felt like to have extra money to give. As an adult I was always in debt and made dumb financial moves because nobody taught me anything about money. So, I had nothing to give. I did eventually get right side up in life financially and gave some, but not much. Giving to an impersonal organization is hard for me. I love to give now that I have the means, but I'd rather find someone and make a gift that I can see impact someone.

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

dubstepped

I think it is just zealotry that has gotten out of hand. You can see a lot of the same mind control tactics employed by parents. Heck, my parents (before and after they came in contact with JW's) employed a lot of the same things. They were very controlling in part because they wanted the best for us, and in part because they were narcissists who just didn't want us kids to be "problems" for them. I see the same with the organization. I think that they have overstepped to the point of trying to become the consciences of their followers, which is very controlling, but in my view it is well-intentioned overreaching. If you look at pretty much any group of humans, leaders will eventually emerge, and they will eventually overreach. It is a very human thing to do.

15

[REPOST] Memorial Non-Attendance: The Single Most Impactful TTATT Witness to Family and Friends

by AMNESIANO in

jw
friends

(originally posted march, 2014)anyone who has awakened to ttatt and has conscientiously left the organization--especially a once-prominent, highly-regarded, studious believer from a prominent multi-generational tribe of jws-- after decades of devout, high-profile "serve-us," who continues to put in an annual appearance at the memorial thoroughly subverts and undermines, by this one act, any hope s/he may entertain that his/her departure will stir family or former friends to question the whole watchtower bamboozle.

by this one concession s/he assigns him-/herself by every single jw to their handy and dimissive purgatory: the "spiritually-weak.".

nothing blasts a louder, clearer, and more deliberate message to the jws who personally knew you and those familiar with your jw bona fides that you are not merely "not making the meetings," "inactive," or "spiritually-weak," but that there is a conscientious reason you have rejected the entire watchtower society life than choosing to forego what they know you once believed to be jehovah's must-attend, one-and-only, holy/sacred event of the year for his people, the lord's evening meal.. you hand them the very justification they so relish to self-righteously label you as a "submarine witness" deserving of jehovah's, and more importantly, their judgement.

dubstepped

Part of my newfound mental freedom is freedom from caring what others think. I'll be there because it is about me (and my wife) and Jehovah/Jesus, and I'm not worried about what others think anymore. People can take our presence as they wish, for good or for bad. They aren't my friends and never were, and as such don't get to project their expectations into my life anymore. I see it as one chance I have to go do something that I can actually be in agreement with and to let the rest fall where it may. I value the relationship that I've built with Jehovah since having my eyes opened (I had no such thing while doing all of the "right" things inside the congregation) and see this as a way to show my appreciation.

17

Jehovahs Witness Shunning & the Crusades

by freemindfade in

while discussing being mistreated by my own jw family last night with my wife, i wanted to try to make her think critically about what shunning really is, and at its root what how beneficial it is.

earlier in the day i sent her non-apostate scholarly article on religious shunning being tantamount to psychological torture.

and most witnesses don't think into much about why they do things, its more of a "this is the way we do it, don't over think it" process.

dubstepped

That whole "psychological torture" deal is a reason that after ten years I reached out to my disfellowshipped brother. I started to think for myself and felt bad carrying that out on another human being. His relationship with Jehovah or whatever he believes in is his choice, not up to me to enforce somehow. It is just mean, despite the claims of love as a motivator. I can see the enormous damage done to him anf hate that I had any part in it. I know that I wad just following the program instilled in me as a kid, but I can't stomach intentionally hurting other people under the guise of love to try anf control them. I'm trying NOT to be the narcissists that I grew up with.

30

Just Want To Be Heard

by dubstepped in

i've been lurking here for a while now, and i guess you could call me a fader.

i don't have hate in my heart for the organization that i spent most of my life in, but i have had an awakening.

luckily, so has my wife, and that way i don't feel so alone.

dubstepped

So many posts to address, but I'll again chime in with a heartfelt "thanks" for the kind words.

When I said what I said about not hating the dubs, that was just to state where I was, not meant as an indictment against any who feel that way. I totally understand the hate, and honestly I've been there at times when the pain got too big. I know that people want to label any dissenters as "apostates" and "evil", but what I see here is tremendous pain. Every person that I've ever talked to that was once a dub and that isn't any longer seems to have an abundance of hurt inside over many things. Hurt shows that a person still cares, as the opposite of love isn't hate, it is apathy. People wouldn't spend their time on sites like this if they didn't still care on some level, whether they care for the reputation of Jehovah, for their friends and family still in the organization, for the pain that they themselves endured at the hand of the organization, or whatever.

Also, just to add a little background without too many specifics, this journey isn't new to us. We've been inactive for a few years, as we could no longer invite others to join us in an organization that we weren't feeling good about. That's disingenuous, and just not our style. This has been coming for some time. I've had to fight through tremendous cognitive issues to come to a site like this where people openly speak negative of something that I once held so dear. In fact, I asked my wife if it was okay for me to post here because I didn't want to offend her. I also didn't want to feel like I was somehow furthering hatred of JW's. I just wanted to feel like others understood, even though I knew many did from reading her for some time.

I really appreciate your responses, more than you'll probably ever know, even if I don't necessarily agree with everything. It is nice to not feel compelled to think and feel a certain way like I was for so many years.