Hey Claude, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I can truly say that even though I don't know you. Too bad the JWs that do can't say that, hidden by a warped silence that they call love. I'm glad that you get to grieve with people that knew and loved your son. When my dad died last year I was robbed of that healthy grieving process, all because I had disassociated 6 months earlier. No phone calls, no stories told, never got to see the empty spot where he once sat, not even wanted at his memorial, all because I no longer believed something I was coerced into as a child. I'm glad that you get to grieve. It means that it was real.
dubstepped
JoinedPosts by dubstepped
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13
Automatic Love
by TheFadingAlbatros injehovah's witnesses have a kind of automatic love for all their other co-religionists all around the world.. this kind of attachment can only be the result of a cult machinations.. real love needs real freedom, a strong personal motivation and enough time to be fully developed.. .
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Why are the evolutionist's so upset?
by Esse quam videri inso many evolutionist's on this forum are upset at the terror attacks in europe such as recently in sweden.
it is just a logical step in the evolution of the human race.
should you not rather be celebrating the great changes taking place right before your eyes and constructing detailed explanations of the cell structure and dna development in the human brain.. you can't eat your cake and still have it.
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dubstepped
Anybody else want some cake now? Damn you EQV!
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dubstepped
@Cold Steel- Acts of service are but one aspect of love. It does exist in the organization, of course, but it's not the culture in general. It's not an either/or situation. I remember coming out of a book study one time to find groceries on our car when the factory my dad worked at was on strike. People give each other rides to places. I mean, they aren't devoid of humanity in their entirety. But the emphasis as far as service goes is service like field service, or bible study, those are actd of service that REALLY matter, according to them.
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Has Anyone Ever Just Gotten Mad and "Popped" an Elder?
by Cold Steel init has to have happened.
people get stressed out, an elder or overseer takes just two steps over the line and gets a fat lip for his trouble.. does that ever happen?
or maybe someone "counsels" a brother at the wrong time and tempers flare at the old kingdom hall?.
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dubstepped
^^^^^^^^^^^^Oh man, the basketball games were so full of ego. The elders that I had played with were always the worst too. Heaven forbid you showed one of them up. I had to stop playing at one point because a particular brother tried on several times to hurt me. He would undercut me after I blew by him for a layup and I crashed down hard a few times. There were brothers that broke collarbones, fights that had to be broken up, congregation clashes over games, etc.
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Has Anyone Ever Just Gotten Mad and "Popped" an Elder?
by Cold Steel init has to have happened.
people get stressed out, an elder or overseer takes just two steps over the line and gets a fat lip for his trouble.. does that ever happen?
or maybe someone "counsels" a brother at the wrong time and tempers flare at the old kingdom hall?.
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dubstepped
Okay Cold Steel, yeah the GB say they aren't inspired deep in an article once every 10-15 years, but they also claim to be "spirit directed". They also claim over and over, and talks are given all the time, that elders are appointed by holy spirit. Grieving the holy spirit is a deadly sin. So yeah, as a Mormon visiting this site you get a sound bite here and there, but you have no idea what messages are sent on a daily basis to their followers. It is an authoritarian cult, and elders have authority. That whole GB are not inspired comment is just a get out of jail free card, an an excuse for imperfection, followed by messages of how they're still obviously directed by holy spirit as evidenced by blah blah blah.
Like any good abuser, they send mixed messages. An occasional cry for sympathy to humanize them followed by relentless bullying. An not all messages are in print.
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Has Anyone Ever Just Gotten Mad and "Popped" an Elder?
by Cold Steel init has to have happened.
people get stressed out, an elder or overseer takes just two steps over the line and gets a fat lip for his trouble.. does that ever happen?
or maybe someone "counsels" a brother at the wrong time and tempers flare at the old kingdom hall?.
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dubstepped
People are afraid of the elders because the elders can disfellowship you and take everything from you that you hold dear. You are also taught that they're appointed by God himself, so if you go against them, you're really going against God, and then you'll lose your hope of everlasting life. Fear drives people to not take up for themselves, like with any bully. Members are indoctrinated to look up to those men, to see them as appointed by Jehovah, to obey and be blessed.
I almost got into it with one elder. My brother had left and moved to another area of the city and was living with some girl. He just wanted to get away from the JWs and live life. I was concerned, and I found out what street he lived on and knocked doors until I found him. But I was concerned as his brother, not as a brother from the congregation, and I missed him. We hung out some. The elders found out (from my dad, who was an elder) that I knew where my brother lived. One confronted me in the auditorium and wanted me to give him his address. I told them no, and this elder got irate. I eventually told him to go search for the lost sheep like I did, that he should leave the 99 behind and go knock doors and find him like I did if he truly cared about my brother and this wasn't merely a punitive issue. Another elder stepped in before it came to blows. Everyone in the auditorium was watching. I hated that elder. He was such a dick. They eventually just hunted my brother down at his place of employment and served him with notice of a judicial committee when he came out of his job. He was disfellowshipped by default as he didn't attend and lost everyone he knew from the dubs, including his family.
So yeah, elders hold some clout. They are enforcers. To get into an altercation would likely have repercussions, possibly even disfellowshipping.
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dubstepped
Converts accept it, if I understand your question. Like I said, many are narcissists. Others are victims in life. They go together like peanut butter and jelly and are often attracted to one another. It is all just people playing out roles. The dominant ones feel superior, the submissive ones feel like they're accustomed to feeling. But on the end, both groups get to feel special, like they have the truth, they were blessed to see it, and on some level they're better than everyone else.
Nothing says love like standing at the door of a beautiful home and talking about how you're going to live there after the big A, not even considering the slaughter of everyone in it that will need to occur so you can have it.
That's my take anyway.
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dubstepped
Their brand of love is also reflective of their Jehovah. He loves you, as long as you do everything he asks, and if you fail, you will become bird food at Armageddon.
Honestly, I think the religion attracts messed up people, many narcissists, that don't know how to love even before running into them. My grandma told my mom before they married that "that man has never loved anyone or anything" as a warning. She was right. My mom came from a messed up family too. We kids were objects, not humans, just problems at best for them. They dropped us quick once we realized that shunning wasn't loving but psychological abuse and we reached out to my dfed brother after 14 years.
I'm just glad I got a chance to learn emotional health and to leave.
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dubstepped
Control is not love. The lack of real love was my awakening. Brock outlines it very well.
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Lewis V Watchtower
by Richard Oliver inas some may know as reported by jwsurvey in october 2014 that a lawsuit against watchtower was initiated in vermont.
march 30, 2017 saw a resolution to this case with a summary judgment being filled in watchtower favor..
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dubstepped
Steve, I'm a teetotaler too (man that word looks weird spelled out). I'll have a nice water on the rocks sent your way. I gave up soft drinks and can't do lactose anymore, so my options are pretty limited. I could maybe hook you up with a juice, or some haterade, if you like. I have the latter in spades.