@Anders Anderson - Thanks for the book recommendations, in order. I'll see what's available in audio format. I have "Why Evolution Is True" in my wishlist on Amazon for the audio book but audio is more expensive and I was hesitant to pull the trigger. The same person that recommended it recommended the one I bought that wasn't so great.
dubstepped
JoinedPosts by dubstepped
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340
Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution
by dubstepped inso i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.
i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.
i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.
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340
Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution
by dubstepped inso i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.
i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.
i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.
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dubstepped
Fred Franztonean hour agoan hour ago
If you're still using terms like microevolution, macroevolution and primordial soup, then you have a very very long way to go with your studies. Read some more books, and choose them wisely.Why is this site erasing my posts over and over again once I use the "quote" function? Fuck! I've now lost my post twice.
Let's just say that the above is a non-answer. If you have better terms then supply them. If you have better books then recommend them. I asked for help and am open to it. Who knows if this will show or get erased by the forum monster once I click save but here you go.
I want to understand HOW these things happen on the macro (is speciation a better term) level. Micro (is that adaptation?) is easy to see. I don't get the bigger form of evolution and want to see specific examples of how that occured so I can understand it, not just espouse it as a vague concept.
I'd like to understand how "macro" is still occurring or if it is. Did large changes end with us?
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Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution
by dubstepped inso i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.
i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.
i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.
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dubstepped
Well crap, the site erased my reply and now I can't get out of this quote box on my phone, lol.
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Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution
by dubstepped inso i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.
i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.
i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.
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dubstepped
@HTBWC - I get what you're saying. You're telling me a way of seeing what happened. However, it doesn't explain how any of that happened, merely that it did. I want to understand how it happened. How did Luca become birds, reptiles, amphibians, mammals, and fish? Why only those things and not something else? To my understanding that speciation (if that's the correct term) would be macro evolution. So how did Luca form those other species? What process happened? Why? Why aren't there new species like mammals or birds or amphibians or whatever?
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Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution
by dubstepped inso i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.
i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.
i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.
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dubstepped
So I have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the JWs planted in my head out of it. I bought an audiobook called "Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters" by Donald Prothero. I heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that I listened to. Unfortunately the book spent more time destroying creationists (and very thoroughly I might add), of which I'm not, than it did really explaining evolution. I was sorely disappointed. However, I do feel like I pieced together some things between his rants against creationists and want to see how close I am to understanding. I thought he was supposed to go into the primordial soup but he never even mentioned it.
What I gather is that there are two types of evolution, micro and macro. Micro involves small changes in species like a certain type of sparrow (I think) that developed the ability to crack nuts for food as the food supply changed on an island. Macro would occur when new species evolve. Such evolution occurs due to environmental pressures or maybe some part of dna changing through reproduction. It is more likely to occur somewhere like on an island that is more isolated and where a change in one progeny is less likely to breed out due to a large population.
Fossilization doesn't happen often and needs specific circumstances to do so that aren't often found. So it isn't really fair to assume that we'd have fossils of all of the different changes throughout time. I get that.
Unlike the linear way that evolution was presented to us where an amphibian turns into a mammal that turns into a monkey and eventually a human (I butchered that), there were slight changes over time in chimps over time that led to us. There is only a small difference in dna between us and a chimp.
Now I may have the above wrong. Feel free to correct me. I'm trying to grasp the concept.
From what I do understand above I feel confused in one degree. I get micro evolution. It is easy to see. What I can't quite grasp is macro evolution. I get that there are fossils or whatever of different primates and changes where they begin to look more human over time. I get that such macro evolution takes place over looooooong periods of time. I get that a bird's wings or dolphin's flippers or human's hands have similarities to one another. I just can't seem to grasp how those different species evolved in the first place. I see that birds can evolve to have different characteristics, but are birds still evolving in a macro way into something as different as a dolphin is from a bird? Or if such a small genetic change as there is between a chip and a human creates such different creatures (we are quite different than a chimp even with 99% similarity in DNA), then why don't we see other large changes like that more? I hope I'm explaining my questions well. I'm not asking the old "if humans came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys" question. I just want to understand why there aren't new species entirely being developed that we can see. Are we humans evolving into something else? Is there something else evolving that isn't a bird or fish or mammal or that has such large differences as between those three types of critters?
Feel free to set me straight. I'm open to watching a video or reading another book (if in audio form) but think that some of you that are more knowledgeable can set me straight more directly. I've tried researching some things and feel like I'm jumping in the middle of a deep pool and that I'm probably not ready for that yet.
I know that Cofty knows his stuff, and so do others on here. I respect your minds on this subject immensely. I'm finding myself more stuck in black and white linear thinking than I expected while trying to grasp this.
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New Episode with a Special Announcement
by dubstepped in*new episode with a special announcement*.
so episode 5 of "shunned" is now up featuring caleb, a 19 year old ex-jw that was brave enough to take a stand for truth at just 18 years of age.
he's leaving for the army on january the 23rd so i tried to get this one out as soon as possible.
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dubstepped
You're welcome. The February episode, which I announce on there, is quite the story. I'm going to have to give trigger warnings on that one. It's going to help a lot of people if they listen, or at least that's the goal.
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Anxiety, OCD, Hoarding, and the JWs
by Spiral ini'm noticing what seems to be a higher incidence of the above among the local jws than in the "general" (read: worldly) population.
i don't say this lightly, my wanderings around the fringes of jw society locally is revealing an alarming trend here.
the poverty doesn't help (there are good jobs, but you need a degree or qualifications to get one).. anyone else see this?
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dubstepped
Well sure. In their simplest forms those things are all a person seeking control. JWs lack control because they're being controlled so they seek it elsewhere. I kind of got hoard-y at one point, not like the tv show but still bad, my anxiety went wild, as did depression and I've always had little compulsions.
It all pretty much went away by leaving the cult.
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New Episode with a Special Announcement
by dubstepped in*new episode with a special announcement*.
so episode 5 of "shunned" is now up featuring caleb, a 19 year old ex-jw that was brave enough to take a stand for truth at just 18 years of age.
he's leaving for the army on january the 23rd so i tried to get this one out as soon as possible.
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dubstepped
*New Episode with a Special Announcement*
So episode 5 of "shunned" is now up featuring Caleb, a 19 year old ex-JW that was brave enough to take a stand for truth at just 18 years of age. He's leaving for the Army on January the 23rd so I tried to get this one out as soon as possible. If you'd like to listen by streaming from my site, and more likely if you'd like to leave Caleb a message of support, you can do so at http://shunnedpodcast.com/episode-five-caleb-is-shunned-by-jehovahs-witnesses/
There is also a special announcement on this episode about what is coming up in February. It will be a different type of episode. Listen to learn more.
You can also listen on iTunes (Apple Podcasts), Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Is it 16?
by Jrjw inhi can anyone tell me if it's true the society says parents must take their child to meetings until they're 16 even if they don't want to?
my ex is being a pain about me not forcing my 12 year old to be a witness.
he doesn't know i'm becoming inactive at moment so i have to be careful how i word things to him.
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dubstepped
So you were in an authoritarian abusive cult and married a man that mirrors their qualities.
What you do with your child is neither his business nor theirs. He's the ex for a reason, and someday they will be too. Why would you even care if there was such a rule or suggestion?
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aspects of shunning
by stan livedeath inmany members on here have been shunned.
we know whats its like--and the effect it has had on our lives.
but what about those of us who practiced shunning before--when we were members of the watchtower cult ?.
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dubstepped
I felt awkward around DFed people. As a kid I think I was kind of scared of them. Curious though, as to what their life was like. Now that's just with people that I actually saw.
With people that got DFed and I never saw again I did feel superior. They were so stupid but I was so smart for choosing the right path.
I never had to do much shunning in person. When my younger brother was DFed I struggled. The situation was strange, the elders were assholes, and it was my first personal glimpse into it all. I realized that it was more about crime and punishment, or in his case assumed crime, and really messed up.
I chased after my brother even after he was DFed. I wanted to help him. I left notes on his car that he apparently never got. I wanted him to know that not all congregations were as messed up as what we grew up in. I'd later find out I was wrong there too. Anyway, I did care genuinely and wanted to help.
Eventually I spent years reading books on psychology, emotional health, narcissism, etc. I realized how horrific the act of shunning was. It is psychological manipulation and torment. My first act of rebellion was finding my brother on Facebook and reaching out with an apology. The rest is history.
So I had a complicated relationship with it all. Sometimes I felt superior, sometimes awkward, other times compassionate, it was circumstantial.
Shunning brings some back if they had close ties that they missed, though they came back for the wrong reason. It pushes others away and they'll never go back to such conditional relationships. So much is variable. It depends on individual personalities, circumstances, etc.