Posts by fiddler

54

Hello, its good to be back, seriously!

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

for the last year or so, the opening lyrics to gloria estefan's "always tomorrow" have been howling at me.. i've been alone inside myself, far too long.

never really wanted it that way, but i let it happen..... .

(btw, the message in that song is great for former jw's, if you want to think about the lyrics that way....).

fiddler

I remember you from another board Jeff and I always enjoyed your post there. It is good to read your post here and know you are doing OK.

You see that it's been a process of growing and all and maybe feel bad about some of it but really..........the YOU I remember way back is still there. And that YOU is REAL. Your authentic self has always shone through.

I never read anything unkind from you and since I kind of avoid debate I guess I never heard you in that frame of reference but even so, I think I would still have had respect for you even then.

We all have a road ahead of us coming out of JW's. I'd lived half my life already when I woke up so I think in those first few years it was like being in infancy or maybe adolecence as far as emotional maturity went and so the lessons had to be learned in a very short time. I think it'd be fair to say a lot of us had some real a$$hole moments in the beginning. My JW relatives will of course ONLY remember those but Jeff..........WE (if I can be so bold to include the exJW community) remember the authentic you trying to get out.

It's a process.

PS: The Pacific NW has great craft brews!

34

Costco store label Bible as fiction. Minister outraged.

by jam in

jw
friends

minister walks into an costco store and saw labels on the.

bible $14.95, fiction.

the news media contacted the office of.

fiddler

Oh I LOVE it! Love Costco too!

52

What was your "Aha!" moment?

by Hortenzie in

for me it was when i learned that gb makes their decisions by 2/3 majority vote, not by direction of holy spirit..

fiddler

I think it was the way I felt after my JC....that of an errant child. I was 41 years old and not ignorant of my mistakes. I believed at the time that my mistakes were between myself and god and i viewed myself as an ADULT who could weigh this out with God. I guess I never believed that I needed a group of men to intercede for me. Where the f**k is THAT in the scriptures, reallly?+++++

It was all so tribal...........so patriarcal...............so wrong.

So I walked out never to return.

I didn't even think or know about things like the 'fade'. Boy do I wish I knew more then than I do now. Maybe I could have connected more with my JW family in a safer way but oh well.........it is what it is and my relying on just being honest in beliefs got me no where with my JW family.

They can't face honesty.

20

What if Jehovah's Witnesses were right about Armageddon...

by Comatose in

but god has changed his mind?

according to the bible god can and does change his mind.

the example of jonah comes to mind.

fiddler

What if Jehovah's Witnesses were right about Armageddon...

Well............they're not.

But if we entertain the idea that they once were???

..............that is exactly what I was thinking back when I first left the religion of my birth. The situation had definitly changed! There were too many good folks out there in ALL religions and also NO religious belief. The situation had truly changed.

It was sort of a bronze age mentality meets today.

As freedom loving humans we would not go back to tribal bronze age rules like stoning our children to death for being mouthy.......would we? So why accept that a loving god would kill billions of people simply because they weren't Jehovah's witnesses, a religious group that comprises less than .001% of the human population?

If you want to accept that it would be RIGHT to do the above, i.e. killing your mouthy teenagers and 7 billion + people then ask yourselves:

Would I even WANT to live in a world that is left to serve a deity like that?

19

Is JW Baptism the Only Valid Baptism?

by Cold Steel in

what is the watchtower bible and tract societys view on baptism?

is it absolutely essential that one be baptized to gain eternal life in gods kingdom?.

and can they tell you who you can and cant baptize?.

fiddler

As far as the JW and Watchtower society point of view goes, THEIR baptism is the ONLY baptism,

I had an interesting conversation just a week ago with a Christian friend and I was just telling her how the JW's have baptismal questions that one answers before getting dunked. I mentioned how the questions I answered so many years ago were basically affirming my dedication to God and Jesus but that now the person getting baptized as a JW must also confirm their complete loyalty to the Watchtower organization! My friends response was that I was at least BAPTIZED. To her it didn't matter what the religion as long as God and Christ were part of the dedication. I didn't tell her that to the average JW she was still an unbaptized heathen in their eyes..........thought it best to get on with another subject. Still, I found her response interesting.

17

The POWER of the PIVOT: MASTERING THE ART OF THE REVERSE SHUN

by Terry in

who owns the power to control outcome?

the answer is: authority.. who automatically has the right answers?.

the answer is: experts.. who can force automatic reactions of compliance?.

fiddler

Terry, thank you so much for what you've written. It has been very though provoking and I think I will be meditating on it tonight.

I have been in the habit of sending a once a month "I love you" text to my JW daughter who has been shunning me completely for the past 2 years.

I didn't send one this month.

I've been thinking how hard it's been these past few years and I think you have it right in that trying to reason with them or anything is like going into a den of criminals and thinking you can talk about straightening up. Yeah right! My pleas for normal human decency and family love are falling on deaf ears and it's only hurting me I think.

Before the ubber shunning thing started (and I liked your reasoning on WHY that is the main line of attack from the GB now) I felt a lot better in my life. I WAS standing tall and showing any passing 'witlesses' that I was thriving. I've allowed the extreme shunning to put me in a very depressed state and I cannot honestly stand tall these days. I am NOT happy and I am not happy ONLY because of the shunning.

I've been wanting to break free of this mental state and your words here about the 'PIVOT' may be just the thing I need to contemplate.

No, I probably won't be walking into a kingdom hall any time soon to make any statements but I do know that when I was standing tall no elders ever approached me or any body else even though I am in the same little town I have lived in since I was a JW. They were AFRAID of me and I knew they were! I am living testimony that what they say about apostates is a lie!

I plan to do a lot more 'standing tall' and I am not going to text my daughter anymore. It's been like throwing pebbles at a very strong brick wall and I don't need to be expending my energy like that.

Thank you again, Terry. Good post!

29

We shall dress with modesty (1Tim2:9), why dress like rich lawyers or wealthy financiers?

by Mr Fool in

in my point of view, modest clothing is simple and humble.

so why are jw-men dressed like they own a big company or are challangers to the president post?

.

fiddler

The dress code for men was I think set by Knorr........the business model. Problem is, it was the 1960's-70's business model. As has been noted, the leadership has not been paying attentiion AT ALL. After all the bad things they said about blue jeans and casual dress how could they fess up and change?!

Yes, they are painfully outdated but I must say, two Mormon missionaries occupied my front door space yesterday and all I could think was how similar they looked to JW's........minus the name tags, of course.

The times I've seen 'sisters' out in the door to door they all looked like old missionary women. It was gross to see actually........what had happened to these women to let themselves go so completely into Amishville. I obviously didn't see any of the younger ones LOL! It was mid-week so it goes without saying. Still, I remember younger JW women dressing to the nines for meetings, field service and especially assemblies. I NEVER see THEM out in field service but it's probably a scheduling thing. I'm working when they're out on Saturday mornings.

I have to tell you, I'm very modestly dressed as a witch tonight. My skirt is ankle length and no decolatage! Just a modest witch.

Happy Halloween!

56

They are really begging for money again..

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

sorry i don't know how to post the actual letter but here is the text of it.

lol.

christian congregation of jehovahs witnesses 2821 route 22, patterson, ny 12563-2237 phone: (845) 306-1100.

fiddler

The part of that letter that angered me was this:

This giving spirit is in sharp contrast to the selfish attitude of those in the world around us. While many spend their resources on personal pleasures and on enriching their own lives, you faithful ones have put the needs of others ahead of your own.

That statement is a bald faced lie! In just my own area I see so much giving and helping in the community by churches and others helping strangers in times of need and tragedy.

When I left the organization that was one of the big things I took note of. The people I met were NOT what I'd always been told they were; selfish and materialistic. Oh, some had great homes and cars but hey, so did a fair few of the elders in the congregations I attended over the years.

I hate the way they lie.

18

If YOUR Child Turned Out To Be A Child Abuser Would You Hate Him?

by minimus in

let me say, from the beginning, that i believe child abuse is disgusting and terrible and abusers should be punished.. we often react to the subject by getting very riled up, sometimes threatening to beat up or even kill an abuser.. i wonder, would you feel the same way if you realized that your child was an abuser?.

fiddler

Just a PS to this............my husband was a baptised JW when I married him. That he suffered abuse as a child of fundemental Christian parents is just a part of the picture. The WT facilitated further abuse.

18

If YOUR Child Turned Out To Be A Child Abuser Would You Hate Him?

by minimus in

let me say, from the beginning, that i believe child abuse is disgusting and terrible and abusers should be punished.. we often react to the subject by getting very riled up, sometimes threatening to beat up or even kill an abuser.. i wonder, would you feel the same way if you realized that your child was an abuser?.

fiddler

I haven't read all the responses but this is something I DO think about. My only child out of 4 that remained a JW also is the only one with a child........my grandchild! She has cut me off so I don't know how things are with her and my little grandbaby but I do know that she was raised with abuse.

My husband was raised in an abusive enviromemt..........not JW..........fundy Christian.............and I learned that he had routinely 'disciplined' our kids while I was away in the same manner he himself was disiplined.........ABUSE! By being 'away' I mean when I was doing grocery shopping or working. My kids withheld this information from me until they were teenagers but I knew it was true when I heard it. I knew something was not quite right but I didn't dig deep enough while I was IN the religion. This I will carry with me to my grave.

Since being 'cut off' from my daughter I really wonder how things are going for her and my grandchild. I wonder if the 'apple hasn't fallen far from the tree' so to speak. I wonder what is going on with my grandbaby.

I don't know how to reach them. My daughter doesn't respond to my messages so I don't even know if she's getting them I don't know where she is living at present.

If it came to light that she had abused her child............my grandchild...........I would hold the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society wholly at fault!

When that baby was born I was the one who could have helped my daughter through the family demons. Her siblings would have been there for her as well. She was left with a philandering husband who I'm sure has threatened her with the loss of her son if she has any contact with us......that is what I believe although I may be wrong. Whatever................she needs her family. The governing body of JW are criminally negligent as far as I'm concerned. They have facilitated so much horror through their teachings and the shunning policy I just wish a lawsuit could be brought against them. Maybe some day a really BIG class action law suit will be.