Posts by dan

101

Atheist/Agnostics..you'r e in good company

by badwillie in

famous people who were also atheists:.

simon bolivar, revolutionary of venezuela.

abraham lincoln, president.

dan

OK. If chance didn't create life, then what is the force that has been acting in progressive opposition to entropy and has been designing an infinitely complex life system since the beginning of time?

Science doesn't like eternity. Our brains aren't intelligent enough to wrap themselves around that concept. Aristotle calls God the Unmoved Mover, but that begs the question, Who put Him there? Some say that God has always been God, just chillin' in yonder heaven from eternity to eternity. I don't like that idea, but that could just be the result of my imperfect reasoning. "Create" is an interesting word. The Hebrew word, "bara" means to organize, shape, or fashion. It in no way implies initial creation. We also know that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change form. We were not created in the sense that God went, "Abra cadabra!" and we popped into existence. We were organized as spirits, and then given bodies. God went through the same process. The energy that quickens our bodies is just as eternal as the energy that quickens God's body. As far as who was the first? Don't care.

No I didn't create it, but I know a lot about how it was created.

My evidence? I have yet to meet an "atheist" that wanted to believe in God. Some say they do, but deep down they really don't.

Atheists believe many different things (just like Christians, the only difference is preference), but the most conspicuous ones are the ones who's litany is that God does not exist, and it is them that I address in my post.

If you really want God to exist I can show you how to get to know him.

My God is the one true God. This I know.

Then atheists wouldn't exist, everyone would be agnostic. Besides, whenever evidence is presented they immediatly dismiss it as nonesense. I have a 100% gauranteed method to help anyone get to know God personally, but you'll dismiss it without trying it. You'll have a reason or two, but you really just won't want to try. It's either not worth it, or you just don't want to know.

No, I'm not refering to Pascal's wager. I'm just saying no gambler in the world would take the chance odds over the creator odds.

Now you're just patronizing. You've made no point whatsoever.

I have asked many "atheists" to show me proof that God doesn't exist, and the only answer I ever get is, "There's no evidence that he does, man!" You have also failed to give any evidence, because you know none exists. My question is, Why is the default belief atheism?

101

Atheist/Agnostics..you'r e in good company

by badwillie in

famous people who were also atheists:.

simon bolivar, revolutionary of venezuela.

abraham lincoln, president.

dan

What would you conclude if you came upon a used deck of cards that were in perfect order? Would you assume they were shuffled once into order, or that someone put the that way? You wouldn't have to assume; of course someone put them that way. To assume otherwise would be ridiculous. The chances of the shuffle falling into perfect order is 1/8 to the sixty-seventh power. That's a big number. Now, we all know about the second law of thermodynamics, right? Entropy. The natural progression of all energy is from an organized state to one of disorganization. In order for order to happen something has to act upon the energy, or chance has to play a role. Some scientists don't like the idea of "God," so they assume chance is what organized matter, the universe, this planet, life, intelligence. Those are the only two options: God or chance. Wanna know what the odds are of chance having created and sustained (and continued to sustain) life on this planet? I do to; and so does the rest of the scientific comunity, but the numbers are too high. The fact is, science hasn't arrived at a number high enough to calculate those odds. You could shuffle a deck of cards into perfect order a million times in a row before a universe could be created out of chance, and yet, so many jump at that as the only solution. Why? Because they just don't want to believe in God. If you say God doesn't exist it's just because you just don't want Him to exist. God means responsibility, and most people don't like responsibility. William James says our "passional" nature has the most to do with our beliefs and conclusions in this life. Critical thinkers put aside their emotional and anecdotal reasoning to figure things out, but atheists often just go by their gut. If you were a gambler you would put every dime you had on God existing, and you'd be giggling to yourself all the way to the bookie because you would know that your odds were unbeatable. So, you'll obviously disagree with me, but that's all right. Believers are always racked by the burden of proof, but since atheism is the newest brand of idolatry on the block, I throw the burden to you. Show me conclusive proof that God does not exist or I will have no choice but to call this argument forever concluded. By the way, lack of evidence that He does exist is not considered evidence at all. It is a lack of evidence, and only proves the need for further research. Show me conclusive proof, if you think it actually exists; and if it doesn't then your conclusion is just preposterous assumption.

108

Ressurection question

by Sookie in

i'm hoping someone can help me out.

based upon the belief that death acquits a person of sin, do jws believe that all those (jws and non-jws) who die before armageddon arrives will be ressurected?

just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the bible?

dan

And I fail to see why I have to make an exception about the thief on the cross. Perhaps you could elaborate on exactly what it is that I believe, in that you obviously have a more firm grasp on my faith than I do.

108

Ressurection question

by Sookie in

i'm hoping someone can help me out.

based upon the belief that death acquits a person of sin, do jws believe that all those (jws and non-jws) who die before armageddon arrives will be ressurected?

just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the bible?

dan

elderwho, why on earth would an Apostle of the Lord use an apostate practice to substantiate his resurrection argument? Imagine Christ visiting us today saying, "Of course you're gonna resurrect! Why would the Egyptians have picked their brains out of their noses and boxed up all of their organs if they weren't gonna resurrect? C'mon, dude!" It's so convenient for people to say, "Oh, well, he doesn't say if it is a valid practice or not, so we have to take what we know from other scriptures to try to deduce his intentions in this one instance." There are many, many instances of vicarious ordinances in non-canonical books, but if you want me to stick to the Catholic compilation of scriptures (funny how much JWs loathe Catholicism, and yet their first love is the offspring of the "Mother Church" - the Bible) then there is one; but it only takes one. There's only one scripture that says God is spirit, and yet, say God has a body and the whole world is foaming at the mouth for your irreverent blasphemy. None of the organizations in the Bible used purely scripture as a basis for their faiths, and yet so many chant the sola-scriptura litany as the only true form of worship. The fact of the matter is there is not enough information in the Bible to organize and run a church. So many inferences and assumptions have to be made. How to you run tithing? Oh, don't know, do you.? You have to guess. "Well, Christ said this and that, so it must mean that we should do this and that, right?" Pitiful. That's exactly why the Scribes, Pharisees, Saduccees, Essenes, Herodians, Zealots and every other Jewish sect were condemned by Christ. They all denied the actuality of a living prophet and asserted the transcending authority of the Holy Scriptures. The problem with that is that a living prophet can say, "No, you fool, it's YOU I'm talking about," but the scriptures can't. That's why Christ chided the Scribes. They said had they lived in the ties of the prophets they would not have killed them, but the Lord said, "No, you're worse than they were." It's the same thing that happens today, and it is the reason that so many are trapped in a cage of religious zeal and intolerance. I don't get all my information from the Bible; I trust continued revelation and living prophets. That's biblical.

96

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Have the Only True Religion

by Theocrat in

whether you're a doubter or another agitator, just look at what the bible says: .

1- jesus started one true christian religion.

after the christian arrangement had been established for some time, the apostle paul under inspiration further showed at ephesians 4:4, 5 that there must be just one body, or group, of true worshipers of god.

dan

Y'know, I would have to agree with most of the points made on the very first post of this thread. My problem lies in that Jehovah was Christ's name before He came to earth; it wasn't God the Father's name. My second problem is that the Bible also speaks of Apostles, prophets, deacons, teachers, priests, revelation, priesthood, scripture and about a thousand other principles that just don't exist in the JW organization. Sure, they can rationalize it all away, but isn't that what got the scribes and Pharisees in so much trouble? They tried to pervert scripture to back up their own apostate doctrines. Sounds awfully familiar.

62

Even if a God did exist, there are no absolutes

by logansrun in

there is no objective standard for right and wrong even if a god did exist.

god's morality is nothing more than an opinion backed up by absolute power.

might does not make right.

dan

Y'know, Pyrrho would probably be disgusted with how far skepticism has come. It's a pretty useless branch of philosophy, and it just leads to uselessness in society. God exists. His will is what runs our universe. It's not arbitrary. You probably just don't want any responsibility. Most of this whining sounds like someone is p*ssed at the world because he can't get the 12:00 to stop blinking on his VCR. If you have such a huge problem with authority, start with your parents; and when you fix them then you can move on to your elementary school teachers, but don't start with God. You're not gonna win.

I got some other phrases for ya:

I feel, therefore I exist. - Thomas Jefferson

I rebel, therefore I am. - Albert Camus

I ought, therefore I can. - Immanuel Kant

I want, therefore I am. - Leo Tolstoy

Sometimes I think: and sometimes I am. - Paul Valery

I labor, therefore I am a man. - Max Stirner

101

Atheist/Agnostics..you'r e in good company

by badwillie in

famous people who were also atheists:.

simon bolivar, revolutionary of venezuela.

abraham lincoln, president.

dan

Hey, what are the chances of shuffling a random deck of cards once and having all the cards fall into perfect order? This'll help prove the existence of God.

58

The resurrection of the flesh of Jesus Christ

by hooberus in

the church has traditionally held to the resurrection of the flesh of jesus christ:.

ignatius (who according to ancient sources was a disciple of the apostle john).

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/anf-01/anf01-21.htm .

dan

Here's the funny thing about "spirits" in the New Testament. Some translations say "God is a Spirit," while others say, "God is Spirit." The thing is, that word "a" doesn't exist in Greek. Anytime it says "a spirit" in the NT I could translate it as just "spirit," and there's not a linguist in the world that could tell me I was wrong. So, that very same book of John says that anything born OF the Spirit IS spirit (or a spirit, depending on what side of the bed you woke up on). If we can be born of the spirit, then we can be spirits, and we can have flesh and blood. Again, there is a dualistic eaning to almost all the important words in the Bible. I'm not contradicting myself. Now, look through your whole Bible and jot down all the times the phrase "flesh and blood" appears, then go do the same for "flesh and bones." You'll find that flesh and bones are always mentioned with a perfected being (such as a resurrected being). Flesh and blood mean humans. Blood does not run through our veins after the resurrection, but spirit does. "Quickened by the spirit," I believe the scripture states. Blood brings us life, but it is mortal life. Christ was resurrected with a body of flesh and bones. God the Father has a body of flesh and bones. We will ALL be resurrected with a body of flesh and bones. Any other interpretations are just rationalizations in an effort to squeeze the scriptures into a pre-conceived doctrine. Like Jesus would lie to his disciples. "Look I have flesh and bones. Sike!" The trinity is easy to understand if you don't think of the trinity in a Catholic way. Think of it as the Godhead. Elohim is plural (no it does not refer to the plurality of his majesties and powers), and there are three members in the Godhead. Each is a seperate and distinct individual; the Father and Son possess bodies, and the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit. They are united in perfection and will. They are all perfect, so they all make the same perfect decisions and think the same perfect thoughts, so they can be called "one." That is why Christ prayed that we all become one even as they are one (united in purpose, deed and will). Think of the Colorado Avalanche. How many are they? Well, they're one team, but they're made up of many different people. The Godhead is the same; one entity moving towards one goal, but seperate individuals compromising the whole.

32

Contradiction or new light ?

by Motema Bolingo in

in the wt dated 1st of april 2004, last page, there is an article entitled "should we invoke the angels ?

" (sorry, it is my own translation, because i have the magazine in french).. the article specifies that "the bible reveals only the name of two faithfull angels : mikael and daniel.".

in the next paragraph, the society declares "that angels are not intercessors who bring our prayers before god's throne.

dan

Michael is actually the pre-mortal Adam; Jehovah is the pre-mortal Christ. Don't worry, I'm ready for ya.

20

Is WTS wrong Christianity flawed?

by XQsThaiPoes in

i notice the most qouted parts by the wts is the ot and the epistles .

all there rules are reinforcements of what is already there.

infact the letters to the early congregations are very watchtowerish.

dan

I think you may believe that you are too smart to be a JW, but the truth may be that you (think you) are too smart to have faith. Faith has a lot to do with not knowing everything, but still believing. I'm not a JW, but I know that truth is out there, and I know I am exposed to the fullness of it, even though I may not understand it all. Funny thing about borrowing things fom other religions: can you name a common practice among the covenant people (mentioned throughout the Old Testament) that was borrowed (by God) from a pagan people? Tick, tock, tick, tock. Let's see how smart you really are.