a lot is out there about how long the israelite's were in egypt which can be devided into two schools of thought, those for bishop ushers 215 model or the ex 12: model which stays faithful to the 430 years to the very day ex 12:41 the israelite's left egypt.. historically the dispute goes back a long way at least to the time of jophesus who advocated the view that the isarelites were in canaan before they entered egypt true enough when taken at face value, but look more closely at what the bible says about when jacobs name was changed to israel and then ask the question is there any evidence in the bible that israel was used for the decendent's of abram, isaac or jacob before god changed the name of 97 year old jacob to israel?
a jw i invited to research this confirmed none could be found so that done it remains to look again at the definitions 'decendents' and 'israelite's' to further clarify.. the 400 years affliction as in gen 15: speaks of the decendents of abram only, nowhere does it say anything about the israelites, ex 12: on the other hand refers to the israelite's who came out of egypt 430 years to the very day and says nothing about the decendent's of abram so ex 12: is referring to 'israel' the decendent's of jacob not the decendent's of abram.
consider here that isaac the first born of the line of the promise and a decendent of abraham, died 180 years of age never having set foot in egypt, 10 years before 130 year old jacob/israel entered to reunite the tribal family's as one people, so by no stretch of the imagination can isaac be confused with the israelite's as is so easy to do when the ex 12: 430 year timeline is tied back to the days of abraham as is advocated by the bishop usher model that argues the israelite's were only in egypt 215 years.. gal 3: can be a problem only when read in isolation of other texts, use the same procedure as you would if someone said there was a contradiction with the gospels saying different things and ask them to read all four gospels to get the full picture, like wise with gal 3: which appears to be saying, by itself, that there are only 430 years between the circumcision covenant and the law covenant , read gen 47: and acts 7: to get a more complete picture of what paul has not said about 130 year old jacob's entry into egypt in the second year of famine.. to get the age of jacob start with 30 year old josephs age when he stood before the ruler of egypt and add the 9 year total of 7 years plenty plus two years famine which makes joseph 39, then take josephs 39 years off the age of 130 year old jacob to get 91 the age of jacob when joseph is born as jacob completes his 7 years work with laban for rachael.. jacob then agreed to work on for the beasts and he confirms he had worked a total of 20 years when laban caught up with him: 7 for leah, 7 for rachael, and 6 for the beasts.gen 31:38-41.. the key question when talking with jw's is how old was jacob when his name was changed, ask the questions and let them confirm from the book they trust what it really teaches.. terry.
Thanks for the maps and all the other contributions that will i am sure be very useful when i have time to study them, one line of research is now calling me back to the Bible so i have to move on to clarify my understanding of its basic message which this site appears to have no interest in.
Thanks Terry
hi people, may i firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, i am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so i can clarify my perspective on bible study.
yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.. i find for example the account of jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then?
communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as jesus did because he understood why moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.before looking any deeper at moses creation story may i also ask the question why does jesus knowing that god promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in noah's day say 'as in the days of noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did jesus actually mean mt 24:.
Hi Viviane, You asked what the souls is and can it be measured scientifically ect, the short answer is no because it is not a physical entity, what the soul feels is however confirmed by what our body does, you insist on a scientific answer but in your reply show no interest in the difference in the medical model as used by othodox medical science as compared with the social model which looks at the effects of circumstances on how one feels and that in turn provides all the evidence you will get from looking to science for the answer as to where is your own soul to be found,actually you have no need to ask anyone about that you just have to be perfectly honest about your own feelings.
You may find also the work of Dr Sulman helpful he among others researched the effect of ion changes with some of the winds well documented for the effect they have on how people feel, he found they increase the body's level of serotonin which I am sure you are aware has a major influence on the personal feelgood feeling, also there is the well documented case of Norman cousin who like Prof Steven Hawkins stood the othodox prognosis that they had a very short life expectancy on its head by living decades past the othodox prognosis of a short life expectancy.
So if you really want to know where your own soul is try following there example and question othodox wisdom in the real spirit of science which is all about an evolving and growing understanding. Prof Hawkins has a brilliant mind, had he invested it in the science of genetics medical science would by now have been even closer to a cure for his own condition -or perhaps even found one. Best wishes for your journey but I really have move on.
Terry
hi people, may i firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, i am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so i can clarify my perspective on bible study.
yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.. i find for example the account of jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then?
communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as jesus did because he understood why moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.before looking any deeper at moses creation story may i also ask the question why does jesus knowing that god promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in noah's day say 'as in the days of noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did jesus actually mean mt 24:.
Hi Viviane, if you want to know where your souls is or what it is, the closest you will get to understanding it is to look onto where your heart is. If you try to measure it by science the closest you can get is to read the genesis account that Adam became a living soul only after he had been given the breath of life or again the text that speaks of the life of the soul is in its blood, these are simply ways of telling people long ago that our treasure is where our heart is and in today's times what is more important than ones life..or the quality of it?..your questions are logical according to the medical model but try the same questions by the social model, the medical model highlights the traditional western logic in biological cause and effect the things you can put in a test tube and measure, the social model highlights the effect on how we feel according to how we cope with circumstances that are often beyond our control so they take us out of our comfort zone.
The expressions dead as a dodo has a biological meaning, being dead to the world simply means one is in a deep sleep and totally unaware of what is happening, totally different to the 'happy soul' and then there is soul music.
Thank you so much for your input which has been very theraputic to my soul being able to respond to, however I have to move on as the range of reply's is expanding and getting away from the Bibles own logic.
Regards Terry
hi people, may i firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, i am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so i can clarify my perspective on bible study.
yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.. i find for example the account of jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then?
communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as jesus did because he understood why moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.before looking any deeper at moses creation story may i also ask the question why does jesus knowing that god promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in noah's day say 'as in the days of noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did jesus actually mean mt 24:.
Hi Village idiot, thank you for making the point I have been trying to make, that said the question still remains what was the original as it was in the beginning before theologians usually with best intentions added there own input? and Frankelstien yes the book of Revelation was written after Jesus death and for beleaver's that would also be after he rose from the dead and the day of Pentecost when his holy spirit baptized all those gathered, it works for me and that is where we must agree to differ. I take into account the full evidence of the Bibles own record and even in its present form that by itself is enough to expose theological errors and everyone has that same option to keep looking for the the gold or to keep looking at the spoil that has no value.
Thanks again to everyone who has commented
Terry
hi people, may i firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, i am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so i can clarify my perspective on bible study.
yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.. i find for example the account of jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then?
communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as jesus did because he understood why moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.before looking any deeper at moses creation story may i also ask the question why does jesus knowing that god promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in noah's day say 'as in the days of noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did jesus actually mean mt 24:.
Hi Half Bananna, thanks for the compliment yes I did want to help people better understand the Bible, if you want logical varifiable proof apply the standard test as is used in science to test a theory or as the Bible puts it long ago 'if it shall come to pass' that is what science does isn't it? but before testing a theory you do need to understand the properties of what it is you are testing don't you?
I set the ground work for such a test with my first post but no one has shown any interest in following it up and I respect the right of anyone not to believe the Bible if they so choose so I am not going to continue to try and reason with anyone further here, the evidence is there for anyone who really wants to look for it so I will leave you with just one clue:
I explain simply for clarity:The book of Revelation begins by saying God gave the Revelation of Jesus Christ to be shown to the angel who showed it to the prophet John, and John then wrote the book for us. John wrote using key points in the history of his people as a symbolic message which, only when the whole Bible is read fully can be understood in its prophetic application. the pattern of the symbolism has numeric labels which have been misread by repeated misuse of the day year method, as you probably know William Miller 1844, Charles Russel 1875,1925, and 1975 are some of the most extreme examples of this.
It has taken me many years to grasp this and I now know enough to convince me as I see the events coming to pass, I respect your choice not to believe and as far as Darwin's theory is concerned I fully accept it as it apply's to biological evolution and in that respect the Bibles account of the creation of the living soul will not be of interest to you.
regards Terry
hi people, may i firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, i am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so i can clarify my perspective on bible study.
yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.. i find for example the account of jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then?
communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as jesus did because he understood why moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.before looking any deeper at moses creation story may i also ask the question why does jesus knowing that god promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in noah's day say 'as in the days of noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did jesus actually mean mt 24:.
Hi Finkelstein, Thanks for your comment which reminded me about the 1972 restoration of the great Mosque of Sana'a in Yemin, in brief a German scholar visited the place and was invited to look at what is known as a' paper grave' meaning that Othodox Muslims respectfully keep old worn out scripts often laid to rest in the roof space, there were tens of thousands of fragments from about a thousand different Koran, some of those fragment showed distinct differences from the standard text of the Koran.
These were examined in 1981 and since then it has been found that they were sheets of scripture written in the early hijazi text which made them peaces of the earliest Korans known to exist, the full article is several pages long by Tony Lester called What is the Koran?
I mention this because the German Government funded much of the research I have not kept up to date about this but do find it interesting in that Germany now has a powerful voice in Europe once again and has obtained the documented evidence that could argue a step change in Islamic understanding of the Koran at a time when Muslim leaders are not best pleased with the extremes of there religion.
Terry
hi people, may i firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, i am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so i can clarify my perspective on bible study.
yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.. i find for example the account of jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then?
communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as jesus did because he understood why moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.before looking any deeper at moses creation story may i also ask the question why does jesus knowing that god promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in noah's day say 'as in the days of noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did jesus actually mean mt 24:.
Hi Cofty, I am not biting so don't go there and anyway I am old enough to have lost most of my teeth and learnt something about the value of human dignity.
Thanks Carm, It is not our culture that is at stake here but our souls: are there not good and not so good souls in every culture? ultimately you are right of course it comes down to how we apply what our culture teaches to work out our own salvation and that's the basis for our souls reward come our judgement day, what price then will a man give for his soul when it is valued according to its works by the standard God sets for mankind.
Perhaps Perry would like to comment about this as I may be making assumptions about the role of Jesus and on what basis he seperate's the sheep from the goats..would a belief in the resurrection of Jesus be the work that justifies the soul eternally (Abraham was justified by faith) are those the works of the new creature/soul who has the mind of Christ..or should I put the emphasis on the lifelong growth of faith and the wisdom to work things out in the spirit of truth...that brings me back to my first post which reminds me...
hi people, may i firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, i am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so i can clarify my perspective on bible study.
yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.. i find for example the account of jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then?
communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as jesus did because he understood why moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.before looking any deeper at moses creation story may i also ask the question why does jesus knowing that god promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in noah's day say 'as in the days of noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did jesus actually mean mt 24:.
Thanks everyone for your input, Phizzy may I say I agree with your view as far as religious extremes are concerned and the recent meeting of Muslim leaders would also agree it is time for extremes such as IS to go the way of the Dojo bird so you may well see your hope which is shared by many others realised, so what then will replace the reformation of Islam or for that matter all other religious extremes because no way will the established ones just fade quietly away.
We can all credit our ancestors for good or not so good genes and our parents for good or not so good precedents but we can credit no one for is the good or not so good decisions we make as adults,and Finkelstine I am not saying we have to revert back to the not so good past of human history, that route is why Jimmy Saville & like minded company were so sucsessfull for so long and yes you can quite rightly say the same applies to the mainstream Christian Church even in its recent history, so if society is to advance beyond the best of what some ancient cultures are given credit for before religious extremes imposed themselves what values would be needed to prevent those negatives reimposing themselves in some new form?
I called this post please focus on the Bible but I don't see from the reply's any positive interest in that so perhaps I am fighting a loosing battle here and the way things are going we will soon enough see a needed step change to how religion is presented to the public.
hi people, may i firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, i am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so i can clarify my perspective on bible study.
yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.. i find for example the account of jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then?
communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as jesus did because he understood why moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.before looking any deeper at moses creation story may i also ask the question why does jesus knowing that god promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in noah's day say 'as in the days of noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did jesus actually mean mt 24:.
Hi people, May I firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, I am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so I can clarify my perspective on Bible study. Yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the Bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the Bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.
I find for example the account of Jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that Moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions Moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the Egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then? communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find Moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as Jesus did because he understood why Moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.Before looking any deeper at Moses creation story may I also ask the question why does Jesus knowing that God promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in Noah's day say 'As in the days of Noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did Jesus actually mean Mt 24:
I am giving these examples because I am concerned about how our future generations yours and mine will cope with the growing pressures on our religious heritage not least from the sharp increase in the Muslim community, Should we then continue to trample down the only real resisstance we have to being absorbed into Islam or any other religion or should we be preserving what is left of our greatest cultural treasure by looking more at how we can better understand what it taught in the beginning?
Muslims like some of you believe the Bible has been corrupted far beyond its original teaching which they call the Injil Gospel, yet ask them what the Injil is and they can tell you no more about it than most Christians can about the book of Revelation,perhaps that is because when understood as they originally were they both give the same message?
Terry
a lot is out there about how long the israelite's were in egypt which can be devided into two schools of thought, those for bishop ushers 215 model or the ex 12: model which stays faithful to the 430 years to the very day ex 12:41 the israelite's left egypt.. historically the dispute goes back a long way at least to the time of jophesus who advocated the view that the isarelites were in canaan before they entered egypt true enough when taken at face value, but look more closely at what the bible says about when jacobs name was changed to israel and then ask the question is there any evidence in the bible that israel was used for the decendent's of abram, isaac or jacob before god changed the name of 97 year old jacob to israel?
a jw i invited to research this confirmed none could be found so that done it remains to look again at the definitions 'decendents' and 'israelite's' to further clarify.. the 400 years affliction as in gen 15: speaks of the decendents of abram only, nowhere does it say anything about the israelites, ex 12: on the other hand refers to the israelite's who came out of egypt 430 years to the very day and says nothing about the decendent's of abram so ex 12: is referring to 'israel' the decendent's of jacob not the decendent's of abram.
consider here that isaac the first born of the line of the promise and a decendent of abraham, died 180 years of age never having set foot in egypt, 10 years before 130 year old jacob/israel entered to reunite the tribal family's as one people, so by no stretch of the imagination can isaac be confused with the israelite's as is so easy to do when the ex 12: 430 year timeline is tied back to the days of abraham as is advocated by the bishop usher model that argues the israelite's were only in egypt 215 years.. gal 3: can be a problem only when read in isolation of other texts, use the same procedure as you would if someone said there was a contradiction with the gospels saying different things and ask them to read all four gospels to get the full picture, like wise with gal 3: which appears to be saying, by itself, that there are only 430 years between the circumcision covenant and the law covenant , read gen 47: and acts 7: to get a more complete picture of what paul has not said about 130 year old jacob's entry into egypt in the second year of famine.. to get the age of jacob start with 30 year old josephs age when he stood before the ruler of egypt and add the 9 year total of 7 years plenty plus two years famine which makes joseph 39, then take josephs 39 years off the age of 130 year old jacob to get 91 the age of jacob when joseph is born as jacob completes his 7 years work with laban for rachael.. jacob then agreed to work on for the beasts and he confirms he had worked a total of 20 years when laban caught up with him: 7 for leah, 7 for rachael, and 6 for the beasts.gen 31:38-41.. the key question when talking with jw's is how old was jacob when his name was changed, ask the questions and let them confirm from the book they trust what it really teaches.. terry.
A lot is out there about how long the Israelite's were in Egypt which can be devided into two schools of thought, those for Bishop Ushers 215 model or the Ex 12: model which stays faithful to the 430 years to the very day Ex 12:41 the Israelite's left Egypt.
Historically the dispute goes back a long way at least to the time of Jophesus who advocated the view that the Isarelites were in Canaan before they entered Egypt true enough when taken at face value, but look more closely at what the Bible says about when Jacobs name was changed to Israel and then ask the question is there any evidence in the Bible that Israel was used for the decendent's of Abram, Isaac or Jacob before God changed the name of 97 year old Jacob to Israel? A JW I invited to research this confirmed none could be found so that done it remains to look again at the definitions 'decendents' and 'Israelite's' to further clarify.
The 400 years affliction as in Gen 15: speaks of the decendents of Abram only, nowhere does it say anything about the Israelites, Ex 12: on the other hand refers to the Israelite's who came out of Egypt 430 years to the very day and says nothing about the decendent's of Abram so Ex 12: is referring to 'Israel' the decendent's of Jacob not the decendent's of Abram.
Consider here that Isaac the first born of the line of the promise and a decendent of Abraham, died 180 years of age never having set foot in Egypt, 10 years before 130 year old Jacob/Israel entered to reunite the tribal family's as one people, so by no stretch of the imagination can Isaac be confused with the Israelite's as is so easy to do when the Ex 12: 430 year timeline is tied back to the days of Abraham as is advocated by the Bishop Usher model that argues the Israelite's were only in Egypt 215 years.
Gal 3: can be a problem only when read in isolation of other texts, use the same procedure as you would if someone said there was a contradiction with the gospels saying different things and ask them to read all four gospels to get the full picture, like wise with Gal 3: which appears to be saying, by itself, that there are only 430 years between the circumcision covenant and the law covenant , read Gen 47: and acts 7: to get a more complete picture of what Paul has not said about 130 year old Jacob's entry into Egypt in the second year of famine.
To get the age of Jacob start with 30 year old Josephs age when he stood before the ruler of Egypt and add the 9 year total of 7 years plenty plus two years famine which makes Joseph 39, then take Josephs 39 years off the age of 130 year old Jacob to get 91 the age of Jacob when Joseph is born as Jacob completes his 7 years work with Laban for Rachael.
Jacob then agreed to work on for the beasts and he confirms he had worked a total of 20 years when Laban caught up with him: 7 for Leah, 7 for Rachael, and 6 for the beasts.Gen 31:38-41.
The key question when talking with JW's is how old was Jacob when his name was changed, ask the questions and let them confirm from the book they trust what it really teaches.
Terry
