Posts by reslight2

18

Paul Samuel Leo (Levitsky) Johnson ...

by snowbird in

... aka p s l johnson was made to look the villain in the 1975 yearbook of jw's.. i've done research and found out that he resisted rutherford to the bitter end.

he referred to rutherford as "that usurper", and was ousted from bethel.. he seems to have been a fanatic who idolized c. t. russell; his impassioned eulogy at russell's funeral borders on deification.. is that why rutherford hated him so much?.

p s l johnson was founder of the laymen's home missionary movement.. sylvia.

reslight2

I have studied much of Johnson's works extensively. He had a brilliant mind, and was well trained in both Hebrew and Greek. In this he was a valuable aid to Charles Taze Russell before Russell died. Johnson was, however, absorbed with seeing himself or his particular movement (after Russell died) in types. (Rutherford did this also with the his organization, but not to such an extent as Johnson.) Johnson also claimed that he was to be the "last member" of the "World's High Priest" to be raised in the first resurrection when he died. (He died in 1950, and his successor, Raymond Jolly, declared that there were no more members of the 144,000 left on earth.) Except for these areas, and his determination to have to the high calling ended in 1914-1916, and some other things, there is also much I appreciate in his works. He did present some background history of what happened in Bethel after Russell died and some good refutations of Joseph Rutherford's new doctrines in a book he called "Merariism," the title based on another his application of types. He presents a lot good information in his books, "God", "Creation", "The Millennium," "The Bible," "Christ-Sprit-Covenants," although I do not agree with all he wrote in those books. I have most of Johnson's books and many of his writings, some of which I find beneficial on the more basic teachings that Bible Students general share in common, but the bulk of his work was, I believe, wasted on trying to "convert" Bible Students to his way of thinking, and to accept him as the "Ephiphany Messenger", trying prove himself and his movement in types, etc., which, in turn, produced a form of sectarianism which still exists to this day.

14

Help! I have a pyramid/1914 question?

by keeshondgirl in

does anyone know when the watchtower society stopped believing that they arrived at 1874 and 1914 as results of russels measurements of the pyramid ?.

how long was it that they believed their pyramid idea before they used their twisted bible dates to 'prove' that jesus's enthronement wasn't based on a pyramid measurement?.

reslight2

Actually, the 1874 date was based on the 1335 days prophecy of Daniel, the "double" parallels, and the jubilee cycles. 6,000 years from Adam's creation, according to Barbour/Russell's chronology, does not end in 1874, but rather in 1872 (or using the whole year method of years from fall to fall, the beginning of 1873). Russell allowed two years from Adam's creation to his disobedience, which he believed happened 6,000 years before 1874.

Neither Barbour nor Russell replaced 1874 with 1914, as many on the internet have claimed, since Russell believed -- until his death -- that Christ had returned in 1874. Rutherford also for many years after Russell's death taught that Christ had returned in 1874 until about 1928 or 1929, about whch time he began to claim that Christ had returned in 1914, and began using the 1335 days and the other days of Daniel as alleged proofs of events related to his new organization.

14

JWs... You are not unique! take a look at this. My research

by Aussie Oz in

in my research i have decided to go waaaay back.

so, one of the first things i did was look at the beginnings with regard to charles taze russell.. while this may be old news to many, this is indeed new to me.

and i want to tell this to the jws that are no doubt on here too.. you are an adventist sect.. without posting the expanded (very long) version of my research, i will post the basics that lead me to this conclusion.. how unique are jehovahs witnesses?

reslight2

There are four religions that essentially believe the same stuff as Jehovah's Witnesses with very slight variations.
Associated Bible Students, Dawn Bible Students, Christadelphians, and Second Day Adventists. The only other one that can be loosely called the same would be Seventh Day Adventists.

The variations between the Bible Students groups and the Jehovah's Witnesses could hardly be called "slight." The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that millions of unbelieving men, women and children will be eternally destroyed in the "great tribulation" or the battle of Armageddon. The Bible Students do not teach that idea at all, but rather believe that all unbelievers who are dying in Adam will be blessed with the resurrection of the unjust in the last day due to the ransom for all. The JWs rejected the 'ransom for all' and replaced it with a doctrine that basically says: "join us or be eternally destroyed." Charles Taze Russell considered the doctrine of the ransom for all as being the central doctrine in understanding how Jesus' death provides salvation for all.

"Second Day Adventists" seems to be a psuedo name often given to the "Second Adventists." I have not been able to verify that there ever was a group that called themsevles "Second Day Adventists." I cannot think of any scriptural reason for any group to call themselves "Second Day Adventists," except that in a general sense, one could speak of the entire period of man's history from the creation of Adam as a "day", and the "day" of when the world is to blessed by the seed of Abraham as a "second day." While I don't know of any group who adopted such a name, I have seen many refer to the "Second Adventists" by adding the word "Day" in the middle, possibly because of the denominational name "Seventh Day Adventists" is used as basis, and the word "Day" has been added to correlate the Second Adventists as having a similar name.

30

FRAUD at the proper time: Watchtower swindle and GB nonsense

by Terry in

food at the proper time?

there is a huge difference between an opinion and a false teaching.. what if it could be unambiguously demonstrated that a teaching is not merely opinion but a false religious view passed off as absolute truth in the name of a higher authority?.

would that not be fraud?

reslight2

3. 1846 marked the fulfillment of prophecy in having Jesus cleanse the Sanctuary (having arrived invisibly).

Russell's study on this may be found at:

http://agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/htdb0099.htm

Another Bible Student has written a follow-up on this:
http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/treatises/The%20Cleansing%20Of%20The%20Sanctuary.htm

There are some aspects I disagree with the two presentation above, but overall, I am in agreement.

I not sure what is meant by the idea that Jesus arrived in invisibily in 1846, as I could not verify any such thought as being presented by Russell.

Ronald R.

30

FRAUD at the proper time: Watchtower swindle and GB nonsense

by Terry in

food at the proper time?

there is a huge difference between an opinion and a false teaching.. what if it could be unambiguously demonstrated that a teaching is not merely opinion but a false religious view passed off as absolute truth in the name of a higher authority?.

would that not be fraud?

reslight2

Again, it appears to be assumed that this is a false teaching; as far as I know, there has never been such a meteor shower as that one since.

http://agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/htdb0118.htm

Russell was not the first to make such an application, and there were many other authors saying the same thing; however, nor was he presenting the matter as the primary fulfillment of the prophecy, as can be seen from his study on this. It is the symbolic fulfillment that Russell emphasized, not the physical.

Russell stated in the Foreward of that book: "All Christian people credit the book of Revelation to our Lord, as St. John does. (Rev. 1:1) Therefore we are not responsible for the symbolism used in that book. There are so many ways in which one might be misunderstood, even by good Christian people, that we naturally feel a delicacy about expressing our views. As we proceed to set forth our understanding of the symbols of the Revelation, we wish to state most emphatically that we are saying nothing whatever against godly Christians anywhere, at any time, whether in any church or out of any church.... As we present our interpretations of the symbols of Revelation, we realize that the Word of God conveys a very terrible arraignment of some of the great systems of our day-- some that we have long reverenced and esteemed, that we have thought contained many who are godly in word and in deed. Let us, therefore, clearly distinguish between individuals and systems. We say nothing against the godly individual, but in the interpretation of the Word of God what we have to say is merely in respect to these systems."

I personally would only suggest that the meteor shower was a possible fulfillment, while I would view the symbolic fulfillment to be of much great weight.

Ronald R.

30

FRAUD at the proper time: Watchtower swindle and GB nonsense

by Terry in

food at the proper time?

there is a huge difference between an opinion and a false teaching.. what if it could be unambiguously demonstrated that a teaching is not merely opinion but a false religious view passed off as absolute truth in the name of a higher authority?.

would that not be fraud?

reslight2

1.The Second Adventists and Millerite Movement was the fulfillment of bible prophecy.

Evidently it is thought that this is a "false teaching." Russell, who was never associated with, and who did not believe in, such an authoritarian organization as the Jehovah's witnesses, was never dogmatic about matters such as this, and he certainly never claimed a person was not a Christian if he failed to accept what he believed concerning this. Myself, I do believe that the events related to the Millerite movment were in fulfillment of Bible prophecy, but, like Russell, I do not wish to be understood that those who do not understand this are not Christian. Russell stated: "I should think that one-half of the friends do not have that quality of the mind which would enable them to understand a chronological proposition. And some of them might feel that because they could not understand all that was written in the second volume of Scripture studies on chronology, they could not be saints. Not at all, dear friends. Those who can understand chronological matters, let them have that pleasure. Let those who cannot do so not worry themselves about it." (What Pastor Russell Said, Q113:1) Regarding another matter, he said: "If you cannot understand it, never mind. Do you believe that the death of Jesus in some way is the ground or condition upon which the Father is willing to receive you? Yes. Very well, come on those
conditions. That is the way the church has been coming for centuries past." (What Pastor Russell Said, Q113:1)

30

FRAUD at the proper time: Watchtower swindle and GB nonsense

by Terry in

food at the proper time?

there is a huge difference between an opinion and a false teaching.. what if it could be unambiguously demonstrated that a teaching is not merely opinion but a false religious view passed off as absolute truth in the name of a higher authority?.

would that not be fraud?

reslight2

Below a list is culled from various publications by C.T. Russell who was the mouthpiece of the Lord.

Charles Taze Russell, who was never a member of any governing body for the Jehovah's Witnesses, referred to himself and all Christians as mouthpieces for God. In other words, anyone who gives testimony concerning Jesus and God's kingdom is a mouthpiece for God.

http://ctr.reslight.net/2010/01/01/mouthpiece.html

Ronald R.

9

1927 Time Magazine article on Judge Rutherdord

by donny in

interesting article from time in 1937.. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,730814,00.html.

religion: judge rutherfordmonday, aug. 01, 1927.

"through the gracious providence of jehovah," the voice of judge joseph frederick rutherford, president, the international bible students' association, boomed from toronto last week to pass out from 53 separate radio broadcasting stations.

reslight2

I might add that Russell did not teach that the third world was to end 2874; he believed the third heavens and earth are to never end.

9

1927 Time Magazine article on Judge Rutherdord

by donny in

interesting article from time in 1937.. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,730814,00.html.

religion: judge rutherfordmonday, aug. 01, 1927.

"through the gracious providence of jehovah," the voice of judge joseph frederick rutherford, president, the international bible students' association, boomed from toronto last week to pass out from 53 separate radio broadcasting stations.

reslight2

littlebird said:

Interesting, never heard of the cosmos stuff.

Russell wrote on this in the first volume of Studies in the Scriptures (The Divine Plan of the Ages), especially in Study IV and Study XII.

The use of the English word "cosmos", however, may leave the wrong impression, since "cosmos" in English often leaves the impression of the whole universe, and thus does not exactly match the usage of the word "kosmos" in the Bible. Peter used the word "kosmos" (order, arrangement, system of things) in speaking of the world, the heavens and the earth, that passed away in the flood of Noah's day, thereby leaving the thought of three kosmoi (three worlds), that kosmos that perished in the flood of Noah's day (2 Peter 3:6), the kosmos that now is (2 Peter 3:7), and the new kosmos (new heavens and new earth -- 2 Peter 3:13).

24

Heaven & Hell

by kzjw in

i'm having the whole heaven & hell discussion again w/ the wife...brought up matthew 25:41-46 as proof it exists,then the wife balked & looked to the friends for help.

the good news is that my wife now respects the fact that i won't read anything printed by the filthy slave, but the fight's still not fair.

can anyone give me more scriptures of the bible to use?

reslight2

Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)

10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

This is the only verse in the entire Bible that speaks of torment (in most translations) forever, and it doesn't speak of souls or spirits of human beings being tormented, but rather it speaks of the devil, a wild beast, and a false prophet as being tormented (literally, touchstoned). The Greek word often rendered "tormented," however, could be rendered as "examined", or "tested", as being a close approximation of verb form of the Greek verb used, a verb form of the word for "touchstone." The devil, symbolizing also the works of the devil, the symbolic wild beast with seven heads and ten horns, the symbolic false prophet (the image of the wild beast), are examined continuously for all eternity as symbols of the past reign of sin.

To emphasize: The statement in Revelation 20:10 is concerning, not human beings, but rather the symbolic devil, a symbolic wild beast, and a symbolic false prophet. No actual living creature is ever spoken of as being tormented forever. The wild beast is described as having seven heads and ten horns; are we to think that there will be a literal wild beast with literal seven heads and literal ten horn that will be actuallly kept alive forever so as be tortured?

We do read:

Revelation 20:14 - Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:15 - If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

We note that the symbolism of "Death and Hades" are thrown into the lake of fire. We are not to think that "Death and Hades" are to be conscious and "tormented" for all eternity in that lake, but rather they are destroyed by being thrown into that symbolic lake. The "Death" being spoken of is -- represents -- the condemnation received through Adam. Without the redemption through Jesus, those dead in Hades would have remained in that dead condition forever. ( Hosea 13:14 ; 1 Corinthians 15:21 , 22 ; Romans 5:12-19 ) "Hades" (Hebrew, Sheol) represents the oblivious condition of that death. ( Ecclesiastes 9:10 ) With the curse upon mankind lifted, that condemnation and its condition are both eliminated, and both of these are symbolically depicted as being destroyed by their being thrown into the lake of fire.

Those humans who refuse to obey the Good News in the millennial age so as to have their names written in the book of life then opened to them will also be thrown into the lake for fire, but nothing is said about their being "tormented" forever in that condition. They also simply cease to exist, just as Adamic death and Hades cease to exist by being symbolically being thrown into that symbolic lake. There is no more ransom for those who receive the judgment of the second death. ( Hebrews 10:26 ) They remain dead for eternity.

Returning to Revelation 20:10 , when we look up the nounal root of the word that is translated "tormented", we find that the word means "touchstone". The verb form appearing in Revelation 20:10 would most literally be rendered "touchstoned", which sounds somewhat strange in English. Nevertheless, a touchstone is used to "try" or "test" other stones, so that the symbolism figuratively denotes a trying or testing. The expression "day and night" also does not refer to literal "day and night"; if it were speaking of literal days and nights, then it would indicate that they were being "touchstoned" somewhere on the earth, for from the perspective of the scriptures, day and night has to do with the earth. Actually, in speaking figuratively, it simply denotes a continual condition of the testing being spoken of. While Satan's works as symbolized by "the devil" will be destroyed (including the person of Satan as well as his demons), the "works" symbolized by the devil will serve as a testing for all eternity to come. Likewise, with the works of systems or organizations symbolized by the wild beast and the false prophet.