reslight2

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Posts by reslight2

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  44

  1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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• 

  reslight2

  Finkelstein stated:

  There is another connection with the Free Masons and Russell that your completely forgetting about and that is the theological idealogical concept

  of Pyramidology that Russell supported and hence the reason why the IBSA has been associated with the Free Masons to this day.

  Another conjoining fact that your forgetting about is that Russell gave most of his public speeches in Masonic Halls in his home town and abroad.

  As I said before Russell was a plagiarizer of symbolism from other beliefs even though he may have NOT been fully embraced toward those actual beliefs.

  He saw himself individually as Free Mason in that he was promoting Christ's return and a protector (Knights Templar) by his own theological

  expressions .

  Since any "connection" with the Free Masons and his Biblical study of the Great Pyramid has to be imagined and assumed, I disagree with the statements above. Indeed, we have tens of thousands of pages of Russell's works that overwhelmingly would not agree with the conclusions presented above.

  I do not know that Russell gave "most" of his public speeches in Masonic Halls - such a statement, I can only assume, has to be an assumption.

  I could verify that at least on a few occasions, he did speak in Masonic Halls, as well as "Elks" halls; various convention halls, and other "halls" of various names. Russell gave many discourses in various churches of various denominations, schools, c oliseums, stadiums, auditoriums, etc. The rental of rooms from any of these groups/organizations does not mean that either Russell or the Bible Students are in support of the goals of those who own the buildings. I would think, however, that in Brooklyn, Russell gave most of his public talks at the Brooklyn Tabernacle.

  https://www.google.com/search?q=convention+hall+site%3Amostholyfaith.com

  https://www.google.com/search?q=Brooklyn+Tabernacle+site%3Amostholyfaith.com
• 
  44

  1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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  reslight2

  Finkelstein stated:

  The theological concepts between the Free Mason organization and C Russell are obviously there, once its clearly realized what

  is the meaning behind what the Free Masons and the Knights Templar represent/are. Russell described himself as a Freemason

  although he may not have been deep within that organization as a designated member.

  The correlation although between the two got faded away during Rutherford's take over of the WTS. and Rutherford threw Pyramidology in the trash.

  When the IBSA finally broke away from Rutherford, they still stuck closely to the Free Masons and are still closely associated with

  that organization to this day.

  Since the tens of thousands of pages of Russell's works overwhelmingly testify that Russell was not in support of any alleged "theological concepts" of the Free Masons, I can only assume that the above is being stated out of ignorance of what Russell actuallly did teach and believe. Russell described himself and all Christians as freemasons for Christ, yes, but he was not advocating that Christians become members of the Freemasons' organization. Indeed, he advocated just the opposite.

  I have no reason to call upon the spirit of human imagination so as to imagine and assume that Biblical study of the Great Pyramid as God's Witness in Egypt has something to do with supporting the Freemasons. In reality, it does not!! Such a thought has to be imagined and assumed!!!!

  I know that I am not in support of the Freemasons, and I don't know of any of the Bible Students who are. Generally, if a member of Freemasons becomes associated with the Bible Students fellowships, they disown their membership in the Freemasons. I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that Russell certainly never stuck closely to the Freemasons, and I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that I certainly do not stick closely to the Freemasons. Indeed, the teachings of the Bible Students in generally are totally out of harmony with the Freemasons.
• 
  44

  1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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  reslight2

  Finkelstein stated:

  It is true that the WTS. would give away magazines to those who claimed they were impoverished, particularly in Russell's era,

  but it also has to be realized that most of the publications produced by the WTS. had a profiting number figure placed on each item ($),

  for example the books and bibles which were sold for decades at the many Kingdom Halls.

  I am not with the JWs, and there were no "Kingdom Halls" in the days of Russell. Since most of the publications of Russell were fully given away by volunteers, I cannot agree with the statement, at least concerning Russell, that most of his publication had a profiting number figure place on each item. Unlike the JWs' "publishers", the "volunteers" simply gave away publications without even a request for a donation. This work was supported (1) from voluntary contributions of those associated with the WTS, (2) from funds obtained through compainies such as the "United States Investment Company", or (3) from Russell's original funds that came from the sale of his earlier clothing business. To repeat, there generally was no sell of literature being done by the volunteers who distributed literature in the days of Russell; they simply distributed the literature without soliciting any kind of donation, etc.

  For instance, in Russell's last year (1916), the British branch alone reported for 1915, " The free distribution of Volunteer matter, free SCENARIOS and B. S. M. amounts to nearly eleven million copies." And this was reported as being lowered than that distributed in 1914. Note that this was only for British branch, it does not incude the US, Canada, France, Germany, etc.

  http://www.mostholyfaith.com/bible/reprints/Z1916JAN.asp#Z8:1
  I would have to disagree with any thought that the WTS in Russell's day was realizing a great profit by distributing millions of pieces of literature without any charge whatsoever.
• 
  44

  1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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  reslight2

  Finkelstein stated:

  I think it would safe to say that Russell was a plagiarizer of many things. religious theologies as well of symbols from other organizations

  including the Free Masons.

  plagiarism

  anact or instanceofusingor closely imitating the language and thoughts of anotherauthorwithoutauthorizationandtherepresentation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the originalauthor

  While Russell did adopt and adapt theological ideas from those who came before him, he did indeed many times credit those who came before him. Russell considered them to have been brothers in Christ.

  Russell did, on occasion, also adopt some terminology from the Freemasons to illustrate God's secret society, the Christian church. This in no wise means that Russell was approving of the Freemasons, or any other of man's secret soceities, nor does it give us any reason to imagine that his use of the cross and crown illustration had anything to do with the Freemasons.

  See:

  The Watchtower and the Masons

  I Am a Free and Accepted Mason

  The Temple of God

  Russell's Comments on the Freemasons

  Reply to: "Charles Taze Russell Founder of Jehovah's Witnesses Was a Mason"
• 
  44

  1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><!

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  reslight2

  Finkelstein stated:

  Reslight2, you'll note that there's a Cross & Crown on the top left, which is still used today by Free Masons and a Knights Templar symbol

  on the top right.

  There is indeed a graphic illustration of a cross and crown on the top left; I have no reason, however, to call upon the spirit of human imagination so as to imagine and assume that because the Knights Templar use a similar (not the exact same) graphic, that I must assume that the illustration that Russell used, based on the Bible, is a Masonic symbol, any more than I would have any reason to imagine that the Bible is a Masonic book because some of the Masons use symbolism that is from the Bible. Biblical symbolism does not become Masonic symbolism just because some of the Masons may use such symbolism. The cross and crown symbolism, however, has been used by all the major denominations of Christendom; does this mean that all of these denominations that have used such symbolism were actually promoting the Freemasons by doing so?

  Again, I urge you to see what I have written on this at:
  http://ctr.reslight.net/?p=1155
  and also at:
  http://ctr.reslight.net/?p=170
• 
  44

  1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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  reslight2

  biometrics stated:

  10. Teaching that the "other sheep" were to be in Heaven and number approximately 411,840,000 - (1918 The Finished Mystery page 102-103)

  In reality, there is no mention at all of the "other sheep" on those pages. It does mention the "great company" (the great multitude of Revelation 7). As far as I can tell, Rutherford and in associates, in 1918, were still holding to Russell's view that the "other sheep" are those whom become Christ's sheep (on earth) during the age to come. Rutherford had not yet brought forth his "new light" that the great multitude are part of the "other sheep".

  http://mostholyfaith.com/bible/ScripturexRef.asp?parm=KJV^John^10^16

  Russell, however, did not believe that the great multitude of Revelation is a part of the "other sheep" who are to live forever on the earth; he believed that the great multitude of Revelation 7 would go to heaven in the resurrection, and that is basically the same thought that the authors of The Finished Mystery presented on pages 102 and 103 of the Finished Mystery.
  
  Nevertheless, from the standpoint that God would not approve of error, and from the standpoint of projecting the JW organization back into that time, and then claiming that God approved of that organization by what it was teaching, it does present a paradox that would have God and Jesus approving of such an organization because it was teaching what that organization today considers to be error.

  See also:
  John 10:16 and the "Other Sheep"
• 
  44

  1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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  reslight2

  biometrics stated:

  17. Falsely prophesying the end of the world in 1918 - (1918 The Finished Mystery page 485)

  I could not find any statement of the end of the world in 1918 on page 485 of The Finished Mystery; possibly what is being referred to is:

  Also,
  in the year 1918, when God destroys the
  churches wholesale and the church members by
  millions, it shall be that any that escape shall
  come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the
  meaning of the downfall of "Christianity."

  http://archive.org/details/TheFinishedMystery

  I suppose one could consider this to be a statement of the "end of the world", although I highly doubt that the author of that statement at that time meant "end of the world" by that statement. I could not find the phrase "end of the world" at all in the book, "The Finished Mystery".
  
  This statement, however, shows a sentiment that later developed into the "join us or you may be eternally destroyed" doctrine that Rutherford gradually developed; this attitude led Rutherford in 1938 to full rejection of Russell's view of Armageddon, as well as the "ransom for all".

  Russell never made any statement that church members would be destroyed by the millions, etc. He did believe that symbolically the tares would be destroyed in the symbolic furnace of fire, but he stated that this does not mean that they would be destroyed as individuals; that, as individuals, they would still receive the blessings of the kingdom.

  At any rate, I agree that the JWs today would certainly not approve that statement, and thus, in effect, would be claiming that God would not have approved of such a statement.
• 
  44

  1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><!

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  reslight2

  biometrics stated:

  23. The Watchtower was in the middle of an internal power struggle from 1916-1928 following Charles Taze Russell's death. - (Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose 1959 p69)

  Indeed, the struggle for "power" was mostly from Rutherford; he claimed power and authority of such that Russell had preached against. By 1928, the Bible Students movement as a whole (represented by the vast majority) had rejected Rutherford's grasping for power and his new "organization" gospel. By 1928, over 75% of the Bible Students had rejected Rutherford's new organization.
• 
  44

  1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><!

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  reslight2

  Finkelstein stated:

  Taking in consideration of the fact that the WTS. was always a profiting commercialized publishing house...

  The WTS of Russell's time was certainly not a profiting commercialized publishing house; it was indeed a publishing house, but it was funded by Russell's wealth, side enterprises (aside from the Watch Tower itself), and voluntarily contributions. The WTS in those days were certainly not getting rich by the sell of books by colporteurs, nor from subscriptions; indeed, as I understand it, books were provided to colporteurs at or below the cost of printing those books. I know when I was colporteuring for the LHMM, I saw the invoices that showed how much it cost to print the books, and the cost per book was more than what I was being charged for the books. Thus, the books were provided to colporteurs by means of subsidizing the difference in cost from voluntary contributions.

  The WTS in Russell's day distributed millions of pieces of literature without charge at all. The WTS as Russell left it, however, was viritually destroyed within a few months after he died.
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  44

  1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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  reslight2

  biometrics stated:

  16. Promoting Masonic symbols - (1918 March 1st Watchtower)

  I could not find anything in March 1st Watch Tower that promotes Masonic symbols. Nevertheless, since much of symbolism of the Bible has been adopted by the Knights Templar, in a round-about way one could say that much the Bible's symbolism is also used by the Masons, at least, by the Knights Templar. This is not to say that the Bible is a Masonic book (which some have claimed); it just means that the Knights Templar may be using similar symbolism of the Bible.

  Nevertheless, I am sure that the present-day JW leadership would not approve of some of the illustrations that appeared in the Watch Tower of that time, and thereby would have it that God would not approve of such.