Posts by reslight2

65

any truth 2 Russell funded by Rothchilds

by mind blown in

is any of this true?

historian, historian, david icke states, "...it was the rothschilds who funded the jehovah's witness operation into being, along with other illuminati bankerz (ie, kuhn, loeb, and co.), through "contributionz" by organizationz like the rothschild-controlled b'nai b'rith.

this was proved in a court of law in 1922. one of the key people involved in this was frank goldman who later became president of b'nai b'rith.

reslight2

"Old Goat" wrote:

Russell saw the pyramid apex as representing Christ as "head of the corner." The cap stone of God's organization. The rays represent Christ's guidance. Read earlier comments in this post for more.

I am not sure what is meant by "God's organization" in the above, but for many it would leave the impression that Russell believed in the organization that Rutherford called "Jehovah's organization." Russell never believed in such an organization.
See:
http://ctr.reslight.net/?cat=64

I did an electronic search of Russell's works for the phrase "God's organization", and it produced no results at all; the same for the expression "Jehovah's organization". He did use the expression "the Lord's organization" a very few times, but not in the sense that Rutherford meant when he spoke of "Jehovah's organization".

Russell believed that the apex of the pyramid would not be positioned in place until the age to come. He was not using the Great Pyramid to illustrate what Rutherford later called "Jehovah's visible organization" in this age, since Russell did not believe in such an organization for this age.

As regarding "rays", I assume that this is in reference to lines spreading out from the small pyramids that appear on Plane "K" of the "Chart of the Ages" that appears in the First Volume. Russell's study and explanation of the various planes presented on that chart may be found at:
http://mostholyfaith.com/bible/volumes/A12.asp

The chart itself may be seen at:
http://www.biblestudents.com/clickable_chart_of_the_ages_043004.cfm

There are small pyramids on that top plane, as with all the various planes, except that the pyramids on this top plane have what one could call "rays" emitting from them. Russell never uses the word "rays" in his study, but he describes plane "K" as follows:

We do not here refer to a glory of person, but to a glory of power or office.The reaching of plane L brings full personal glory; i.e., glorious being, like unto Christ. But after we are thus perfected, and made entirely like our Lord and Head, we are to be associated with him in the "glory" of power and office--to sit with him in his throne, even as he, after being perfected at his resurrection, was exalted to the right hand of the Majesty on high. Thus shall we enter everlasting glory, plane K .

And he later states:

Forty days after his resurrection, Jesus ascended to the majesty on high--the plane of divine glory, K (pyramid k ).During the Gospel age he has been in glory ( l ), "set down with the Father on his throne," and Head over his Church on earth--her director and guide. During this entire Gospel age the Church has been in process of development, discipline and trial, to the intent that in the end or harvest of the age she may become his bride and joint-heir. Hence she has fellowship in his sufferings, that she may be also glorified together with him (plane K ), when the proper time comes.

The small pyramid "k" represents Jesus before the topstone is set in place, before the full pyramid is completed. The joint-heirs are elsewhere identified as the 144,000 or Revelation 7 and 14. It is not until the age to come that the topstone is set in place which is represented on Plane K by pyramid "x". Only then will Jesus and the joint-heirs rule over the whole creation; only then will the true theocratic kingdom function, since Satan will have been abyssed so that the heathen will no longer be blinded and deceived. It is then that sons of God will be revealed to the groaning creation (Romans 8:19-22) and will shine as sun. -- Daniel 12:3; Matthew 13:43.

I cannot find any place that Russell directly mentions the lines drawn that exend outward around the small pyramids of Plane "K" (he may have somewhere, but so far I have not been able to find any mention of this); it appears that Russell probably meant those lines simply to represent that high office of glory.

At any rate, there are some things I disagree with concerning Russell's chart as related to his explanations. My point here is that Russell did not believe that Jesus and the 144,000 begin to rule as the apex of the full pyramid until the age to come, after Satan is abyssed, to which I agree.

65

any truth 2 Russell funded by Rothchilds

by mind blown in

is any of this true?

historian, historian, david icke states, "...it was the rothschilds who funded the jehovah's witness operation into being, along with other illuminati bankerz (ie, kuhn, loeb, and co.), through "contributionz" by organizationz like the rothschild-controlled b'nai b'rith.

this was proved in a court of law in 1922. one of the key people involved in this was frank goldman who later became president of b'nai b'rith.

reslight2

Old Goat	Re: any truth 2 Russell funded by Rothchilds posted 11 days ago (6/9/2012)
Post 138 of 152 Since 6/14/2006	As a note to the comment: "Several years after Russell died, Rutherford had a replica of God's witness in Egypt constructed in the middle of the plot owned by the WTS in the Rosemont Cemetery. There is nothing at all about Rutherford's pyramid monument, however, that is connected with the Freemasons' organization, nor with the Rosicrucians, etc. I highly doubt, however, that Russell would have approved of such a monument." As noted earlier, a convention report shows the planning for this monument started in 1914. The design was approved by Russell. It was not Rutherford's idea. That is was his idea is a bit of Bible Student propaganda. The idea came from Bonhet, was designed by him, and approved by Russell. see: Souvenir Notes from the Bible Student’s Convention: Pittsburgh, Pa., January 2-5, 1919, page 7 . You should be able to find that online.

Old Goat

Re: any truth 2 Russell funded by Rothchilds posted 11 days ago (6/9/2012)

Post 138 of 152
Since 6/14/2006

As a note to the comment: "Several years after Russell died, Rutherford had a replica of God's witness in Egypt constructed in the middle of the plot owned by the WTS in the Rosemont Cemetery. There is nothing at all about Rutherford's pyramid monument, however, that is connected with the Freemasons' organization, nor with the Rosicrucians, etc. I highly doubt, however, that Russell would have approved of such a monument."

As noted earlier, a convention report shows the planning for this monument started in 1914. The design was approved by Russell. It was not Rutherford's idea. That is was his idea is a bit of Bible Student propaganda. The idea came from Bonhet, was designed by him, and approved by Russell. see: Souvenir Notes from the Bible Student’s Convention: Pittsburgh, Pa., January 2-5, 1919, page 7 .

You should be able to find that online.

I am aware of what is stated in 1919 Convention Report; Russell, however, did not write that report.

I have no doubt that Bohnet probably already begun making plans for that pyramid before 1914; I do not accept what is written in the report, however, as being actual proof that Russell approved the building of that monument. He may have, but having studied his writings for more than 50 years, it would just seem to be a out of character for him. One will not find any mention of such a monument anywhere in Russell's writings, nor was anything ever presented from Russell's own hand by which it could be said that he had approved the building of such a monument. Rutherford had already shown how himself to be one who misrepresented Russell, which is one of the reasons so many Bible Students had already come to distrust Rutherford. After Russell died, Rutherford began to twist and distort a lot of things; kinda reminds me of "Animal Farm". I do not put much stock in what was claimed in the 1919 Covention Report.

On the other hand, it really makes no difference to me as to whether Russell approved that monument or not; to me, the biggest objection I could make regarding that monument would be that it was an extravagant use of funds that could have been to better use. It certainly is NOT, however, an abomination.

The Convention Report mentioned may be found at:
http://archive.org/details/1919BibleStudentConventionReport

Other Bible Students Covention Reports of 1919:
http://heraldmag.org/archives/1919_4.htm#_Toc517708187
http://heraldmag.org/archives/1919_7.htm#_Toc517707972
http://heraldmag.org/archives/1919_9.htm#_Toc517707857

http://heraldmag.org/archives/1919_10.htm#_Toc517707812

65

any truth 2 Russell funded by Rothchilds

by mind blown in

is any of this true?

historian, historian, david icke states, "...it was the rothschilds who funded the jehovah's witness operation into being, along with other illuminati bankerz (ie, kuhn, loeb, and co.), through "contributionz" by organizationz like the rothschild-controlled b'nai b'rith.

this was proved in a court of law in 1922. one of the key people involved in this was frank goldman who later became president of b'nai b'rith.

reslight2

ScenicViewer posted:

Found on pages 1342 and 1343 of Watchtower Reprints.

A letter to Barons Rothschild and Hirsch was given, which may seen in an earlier post. There is nothing in that letter that gives any evidence that Russell received funding from the Rothschilds. Evidently, those who cite that letter are either misunderstanding what Russell wrote, or else deliberately twisting what he wrote. Russell did made some suggestions, but, as far as I have been able to determine, as Russell later stated, no response was received from that letter. Other than that, I haven’t been able to verify any contact that Russell had with the Rothschilds.

Followup to the above appeard in the March 1, 1892 Watch Tower, which I reproduce below:

ROTHSCHILD PURCHASING LAND IN
PALESTINE.
----------
In answer to queries on the subject, we reply:
We have not yet received a reply to the
letters to Barons Rothschild and Hirsch, proposing
a plan for the organization of Palestine
as a nation. It appears, however, from the
clipping below, that one of the gentlemen is
already acting on a part of the suggestions offered.
It reads as follows:--
"Jewish exiles from Russia and Poland are
really to have a home in Palestine after all.
Through Baron Edmond de Rothschild a tract
of land forty miles east of Lake Tiberias, and
said to be extremely fertile, has been bought.
No families will be sent until some young men,
who are to go as pioneers, have made the
country habitable."--Milwaukee Sentinel.

It is evident from this notice that, at the time of that writing, he had not received any reply to his letter; doesn't at all sound like that Russell was close friends with them.

As far as "Illuminati" is concerned, the only illuminati that Russell believed in of was the illumination of the Bible by means of the Holy Spirit.

Charles Taze Russell, however, was never a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses organization; he did not believe in such an authoritarian organization. C. T. Russell did not believe that Christian congregations are subject to any central "governing body." He believed that each congregation should autonomous. Nor did Russell preach the bad tidings of great woe of eternal destruction in Armageddon for most of the peoples of the earth that the JW leadership teaches.

Charles Taze Russell was most definitely never a member of the Freemasons' organization. I have tens of thousands of pages of Russell's works that provide overwhelming evidence that he was not a Freemason, whereas no one has presented any factual evidence yet that shows that he was a member of the Freemasons. All that is ever presented is what is being imagined and assumed, usually related to his Biblical study of the Great Pyramid (which has nothing at all to do with any kind of demonic occultism, spiritism, the Mason organization, etc.), some of the illustrations he used (cross and crown illustration, sun of righteousness with wings illustration, etc., again none of which illustrations are of themselves either of the occult, paganism, demonism, etc.). C.T. Russell did not believe in Enochian Magic, Enochian Magic Planes, astrology, Satanism, occultism, spiritism, demonism, witchcraft, etc. Indeed, he actively preached against such, although he never mentioned "Enochian Magic" at all by name.

Several years after Russell died, Rutherford had a replica of God's witness in Egypt constructed in the middle of the plot owned by the WTS in the Rosemont Cemetery. There is nothing at all about Rutherford's pyramid monument, however, that is connected with the Freemasons' organization, nor with the Rosicrucians, etc. I highly doubt, however, that Russell would have approved of such a monument.

I don't know a whole lot about David Icke; much of what Icke says seems to mimic the imaginative assumptions of Fritz Springmeier. I have studied several of Springmeier's books in great detail. He seems to identify the Illuminati as consisting of what he calls "Serpentine bloodlines". The only "Serpentine bloodline" that could scripturally be produced in existence today is that of Adam, who became a son of disobedience, and through whom all of his descendants have been condemned. All (the whole human race) of that serpentine bloodline may avail themselves of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus. According to the Bible, there has indeed been a conspiracy against God ever since the serpent (identified in Revelation as Satan) spoke his lie of deception to Eve. The seed of the serpent (Genesis 3:15) is the whole world according to the flesh; all of us, in the bloodline of Adam, are born into this world as members of the serpent's seed, "by nature, children of wrath," "sons of disobedience." (Ephesians 2:2,3) The only way to cut that tie is by means of faith in Jesus through the sacrificial blood that he poured out. (Romans 3:25; Ephesians 2:5; Galatians 2:20; 3:26) Thus, outside of those who have been justified and made alive by means of faith in Christ (Romans 5:1), everyone in the world is of the dying serpentine bloodline. -- Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22.

Russell's works online:
http://mostholyfaith.com

My website on Russell; I have presented a lot study especially related to Fritz Springmeier's assumptions and misrepresentations of Russell.
http://ctr.reslight.net

10

JW Origins in New Brochures

by donuthole in

jw
friends

one of the things i noticed in the two new brochures for the public is how the couch the modern day origins of jehovah's witnesses.

"in the 1870's a small group of bible students began rediscovering long-lost bible truths.

" - good news from god.

reslight2

00DAD

But Russell had a completely different idea of what 1914 was all about than do JWs currently. He believed it would be The End culminating in Armageddon, not The Beginning of the End the meaning of which would be revised at least six times between then and now culminating in the current "Overlapping Generation" nonsense.

Russell's earlier view was that the time of trouble was end, not begin, in 1914. Russell adopted this view from N. H. Barbour in 1876. However, as best as I can determine, some of the Bible Students did not accept this view, and presented scriptural evidence that the end of the Gentile Times would NOT see the end of the time of trouble, but rather the beginning of the time of trouble. In 1904, ten years before 1914, Russell adopted this latter view, which, in effect, was a reversal of his earlier view that the time of trouble was to end in 1914. Thus from 1904 on up to 1914, Russell was expecting that time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914; he died in 1916 still with the belief that the time of trouble had begun in 1914.

Russell's view of Armageddon, however, did not include the eternal destruction of millions of unbelievers as the JWs teach; he viewed it as a period of chastisement, not eternal destruction, upon the peoples of the nations.

See:

The JW Organization, Armageddon, 1914, and Russell

44

1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

by biometrics in

does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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reslight2

biometrics posted:

16. Promoting Masonic symbols - (1918 March 1st Watchtower)

Using the spirit of imagination so as to imagine and assume that there are "Masonic symbols" does not in fact actually mean that there are any "Masonic Symbols".

Niether the Biblical "cross and crown" illustration nor the Biblical "armor of God" illustration shown above are "Masonic" symbols.

Russell’s Cross and Crown Symbolism — Masonic? Rosicrucian?

The Watchtower and the Masons

Masonic Symbols?

44

1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

by biometrics in

does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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reslight2

biometrics posted:

15. Promoting the pagan "winged sun disk" - (1918 The Finished Mystery)
Close match?

Evidently, the thought that is desired to read into this is that since there is a "close match", we should imagine that the sun of righteousness illustration that Russell used must be itself pagan. I do not know if the heathen first produced their symbolism, or whether the heathen obtained their symbolism from the Hebrews and then perverted it. It really does not matter to me. I do not believe that the Bible is pagan because it refers to such symbolism. (Malachi 4:2) Russell had the design on his books made to reflect Malachi 4:2 and other scriptures, nor as a "pagan symbol".

http://ctr.reslight.net/?s=masonic+symbol

44

1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

by biometrics in

does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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reslight2

biometrics posted:

10. Teaching that the "other sheep" were to be in Heaven and number approximately 411,840,000 - (1918 The Finished Mystery page 102-103)
“The number of the Great Company (other sheep) will apparently exceed one hundred millions. Num. 4:46-48 and Ex. 28:1 indicate but one priest to each 2,860 Levites, which would make the number of the Great Company approximate 411,840,000.—T118, 119; Dan. 7:10. 5:12. Saying with a loud voice—The Great Company will be very enthusiastic workers on the other side of the veil…“-1918 The Finished Mystery page 102-103

I am not sure why this is being posted, except that biometrics may determined to change the history of the times so as to make the quote say something about the "other sheep".

The above adds "(other sheep)" to what is actually stated; the book does not "(other sheep)" in reference to the Great Company.

Was ten thousand times ten thousand, and
thousands of thousands.— The number of the
Great Company will apparently exceed one
hundred millions. Num. 4:46-48 and Ex. 28:1
indicate but one priest to each 2,860 Levites,
which would make the number of the Great
Company approximate 411,840,000.— T118,
119; Dan. 7:10. 5:12

There is no evidence here or anywhere else that the authors of this book were saying this of the "other sheep", since at that time, no one I know of believed that that the other sheep were represented in the great company.

44

1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

by biometrics in

does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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reslight2

biometrics posted:

@reslight2:
6. Preaching racism - (1902 Watchtower July 15th page 215)

Evidently what biometrics wishes imagine and assume is that one should take the underlined portion out of context and then say that Russell was preaching that the white race is superior; Russell was responding to those "Christians" in his time who were claiming that the white race is superior, and he was simply admitting that in some areas it has appeared, at least on the surface, that the white race is superior. Russell was saying, however, that any other race could have exhibited the same if they had been as greatly influenced by the Bible, and thus that there is no call to think that the white race, of itself, has reason to boast because its race.

44

1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

by biometrics in

does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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reslight2

Finkelstein stated:

The Colporteur work has been greatly aided by the PHOTO-DRAMA. Indeed had it not been for the DRAMA the output of books would, to all appearances, have been very much less. The regular Colporteur work lost some of its most successful workers soon after the outbreak of the war, when the first pinch of money was felt. We cannot but feel sorry for this, for the country recovered from its panic when the demand for war material began to be felt, and since then there has been plenty of money in circulation, and the people are perishing for need of the Truth. We still think there is plenty of room for good Colporteurs, and it is still true that ground already gone over can again be canvassed to advantage.
Sorry Reslight2 your statement that Russell's Colporteurs didn't ask for money or other restitution for the literature they brought door to door is invalid.
True it could be said that they were volunteers as JWS are deemed today, that doesn't mean that there was nothing asked in exchange for the literature
offered. There is a part of the Colporteur hand book where it goes on to describe what to ask and where they might be able to make the most
probable chance of getting something.
There's even a suggestion to stay clear of any Black/Negro neighborhoods for they most likely wouldn't give out any money.

I searched though everything I posted to see if I did indeed, perhaps inadvertently, actually say that colporteurs didn't ask for money. I could not find any place where I made such a statement; perhaps Finkelstein is confusing what I said concerning the Volunteer work with the Colporteur work. The two are not the same. The Volunteers I spoke of are not Colporteurs. Volunteers generally did not ask for money; the Colporteurs and Sharpshooters, however, did ask for money. In comparison, however, there were very few who participated in the Colporteur work; practically all Bible Students in the days of Russell participated in the Volunteer work. The distribution of literature by Colporteurs was very small in comparison with the free distribution of literature that was accomplished by the Volunteers.

There was, in Russell's day, a booklet entitled "Suggestive Hints to New Colporteurs".
http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/reference/hints%20for%20colporteurs.htm

There are other Colporteur Handbooks that were printed by other book publishers:
https://www.google.com/search?q=colporteur+handbook

I am not sure what is being referred to concerning 'staying clear of Black/Negro neighborhoods'. Nevertheless, in Russell's day, very few of the black people could read; indeed, in some neighborhoods, most of the people could either not read at all, or could not read English. My father was white, of Irish descent, but he could not read nor write. He died around 1958.

Colporteurs, however, usually were totally dependent on selling of books to make a living; they could not afford to give books away, and thus were advised to leave such work of giving away free literature to the Volunteers. The Colporteurs, like all salesman, had to use their time wisely in order to make enough money to support themselves. If they were to go into a neighborhood where most people cannot read, they would be wasting their time.

The Six Volumes and some other bound books, however, were not genrally offered for free, although there were some distributions of the first volume in magazine form that were distributed gratis in the Volunteer work. The Six bound volumes were, in effect, offered to Colporteurs at, near, or even below the cost of producing the books.

Those of the public (who responded to literature that they had received from Volunteers or otherwise) who could not afford to buy the the Studies were either loaned copies, or copies were sent to them free. Often local congregations, as well as individuals, would provide books to those who could not afford them, but the WTS itself also often provided such.

Nevertheless, the distribution of literature for sale was very small in comparison to the distribution of free literature.

44

1919 and Jesus' selection of the Watchtower corporation

by biometrics in

does anyone know any other reason(s) jesus might not have selected the watchtower corporation in 1919?.

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reslight2

Finkelstein stated:

There is another connection with the Free Masons and Russell that your completely forgetting about and that is the theological idealogical concept
of Pyramidology that Russell supported and hence the reason why the IBSA has been associated with the Free Masons to this day.
Another conjoining fact that your forgetting about is that Russell gave most of his public speeches in Masonic Halls in his home town and abroad.
As I said before Russell was a plagiarizer of symbolism from other beliefs even though he may have NOT been fully embraced toward those actual beliefs.
He saw himself individually as Free Mason in that he was promoting Christ's return and a protector (Knights Templar) by his own theological
expressions .

Since any "connection" with the Free Masons and his Biblical study of the Great Pyramid has to be imagined and assumed, I disagree with the statements above. Indeed, we have tens of thousands of pages of Russell's works that overwhelmingly would not agree with the conclusions presented above.

I do not know that Russell gave "most" of his public speeches in Masonic Halls - such a statement, I can only assume, has to be an assumption.

I could verify that at least on a few occasions, he did speak in Masonic Halls, as well as "Elks" halls; various convention halls, and other "halls" of various names. Russell gave many discourses in various churches of various denominations, schools, c oliseums, stadiums, auditoriums, etc. The rental of rooms from any of these groups/organizations does not mean that either Russell or the Bible Students are in support of the goals of those who own the buildings. I would think, however, that in Brooklyn, Russell gave most of his public talks at the Brooklyn Tabernacle.

https://www.google.com/search?q=convention+hall+site%3Amostholyfaith.com

https://www.google.com/search?q=Brooklyn+Tabernacle+site%3Amostholyfaith.com