Posts by reslight2

78

Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

"decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

reslight2

Many world leaders and military officers anticipated a major war starting in Europe prior to 1914. It was a matter of "when", not "if" it would happen.

I am not sure what this is based on. I learned in college that in 1913, the general consensus of most people was that there was NOT going to be any more wars. ""In 1913 many believed that there would be no more war in Europe. The great powers of the continent were so closely inter-twined economically that the view was widespread that they could no longer have military confrontations." -- Jean Claude Juncker, prime minister of Luxembourg.
http://gagadaily.com/index.php?showtopic=43585

78

Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

"decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

reslight2

alanv stated:

The point is Russell and his cronies felt this was the time of trouble that would lead to Armaggeddon. It did not. It had nothing to do with God taking action against the nations. It just turned out to be an extra large war. If it had been God's war, all nations would have ended in destruction, as it was, many nations were not part of the world war, and most of them lived to fight another day. This was not what Russell expected and spoke of at all.

Actually, Russell was not expecting the kind of Armageddon that the JWs preach at all; to him, Armageddon was a period of time in which several things were to take place; the final phase being the full destruction of Gentile Kingdoms and the abyssing of Satan. Russell, however, separated the destruction of the kingdoms from the people who were part of those kingdoms; he believed that Armageddon was to chastise the people, preparing them for the blessings of God's Kingdom that was to follow. He was not expecting what the JWs believe, that, all of a sudden, millions of people who are without Christ would be eternally destroyed.

World War I apparently was only one spasm of Armageddon; the spasms of trouble continue until mankind has learned the lesson of sin and the vanity that results from sin. -- Psalm 107:23-30; Ecclesiastes 1:2,13-18; 8:19-22.

78

Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

"decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

reslight2

Sorry... I have to disagree. I initially thought the same thing, but had to dig a little and found that The Bible Examiner of 1876 had an article entitled "Gentile Times: When Do They End" that does say the things the article here claims.
http://ia600307.us.archive.org/27/items/1876BibleExaminer/1876_Bible_Examiner_Russell.pdf

This article was written in 1876; it was in that same year that Russell accepted Barbour's conclusion that Jesus had returned in 1874, that the time of trouble had already begun since 1874, and that the Gentile Times would end in 1914. The article mentions the time of trouble, but, evidently Russell did not wish to go into the details at that time. In the book, The Three Worlds, it was clearly stated that the time of trouble had already begun in 1874, and that it was to end in 1914. A few years later, Russell rejected the idea that time of trouble had begun in 1874, but still believed that it would begin some time before 1914 and end in 1914. In 1904, Russell rejected the idea that time of trouble was to end in 1914, and accept the idea that the time of trouble was to begin in 1914, and end sometime after 1914.

78

Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

"decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

reslight2

"Decades before 1914, Jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble." -- 2/15/13 Study Edition

This statement is misleading in that it was not "decades" before that Russell considered that the end of the Gentile Times would bring the time of trouble -- Russell himself did not accept this idea until 1904, just one decade before 1914 had come. Neverthleless, there may have been some others who held to such expectation before 1904.

78

Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

"decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

reslight2

BU2B stated:

This is a lie because the WT actually said this at the time!
July 15, 1894 WT states,

First, the WT of that time did not speak for any organization such as the "Jehovah's Witnesses" org. There was no "Jehovah's visible organization" dogma amongst the Bible Students at that time, and everything that Russell stated, especially regard non-essentials such as chronology and time prophecy, was, as he said, his 'own surmissings'. Russell did not believe in any "outward organization" such as that which Rutherford later developed.

http://www.rlbible.com/ctr/?page_id=2084

Second, the statement from the July 15, 1894 WT reflects Russell's thoughts before 1904; at that time he had accepted Barbour's conclusion that the end of the Gentile Times would also see the end of the of the time of trouble. There were evidently some amongst the Bible Students who believed that the end of the time of the Gentile Times would see the beginning, not the end, of the time of trouble.

In 1904, however, Russell did adopt the view that the end of the Gentile Times would see, not the end, but the beginning of the Time of Trouble. Thus, from 1904 to 1914 Russell made many statements to that effect. To the extent that any of the Bible Students agreed with Russell on this, one could say that "they" were indeed declaring that the Gentile Times would end in 1914, at which time they were expecting a time of trouble to come upon the world. Some of the Bible Students, based on Edgar's parallels, thought that time of trouble (Armageddon) would only last for one year, and thus that it would end in 1915; some believed it would last much longer, and various dates were given. Russell presented a lot of differing views in the pages of the WT between 1904 to 1914, and even after 1914. His statement was that 1914 was the last date that could be identified by actual time prophecies; all other dates were dependent on parallels. Russell died in 1916, still believing that the "time of trouble" (Armageddon) had begun in 1916.

http://www.rlbible.com/ctr/?p=1301

I am not with the JWs, but I, and many other Bible Students, do believe that the "last days" began in 1799, and that time of trouble upon the world began in 1914. As in Russell's day, however, there are varying opinions on this amongst the Bible Students, especially as related to chronology and time prophecies.

http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/bsllinks/Doctrine.htm

Christian love,

Ronald

17

End of world predictions/ JW's

by exwhyzee in

i thought this was an interesting site that discusses end of world predictions.

http://www.humanreligions.info/the_end_of_the_world.html.

there are additional links at the end of this page.

reslight2

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

Failed End of the World Predictions for 1914 to 1920 made by the Jehovah's Witnesses,

Before 1914, there was no "Jehovah's Witnesses" organization, and thus there were no "Jehovah's Witnesses" making any predictions; the vast majority of the "Bible Students" in 1914 never became "Jehovah's Witnesses" and never became members of the JW organization.

http://www.rlbible.com/?p=488

However, as far as I know, none of the Bible Students associated with Charles Taze Russell were expecting the "end of the world" in 1914. Most of them were expecting the "time of trouble" to begin in 1914, and that some time after that, the blessing of the nations would begin.

17

End of world predictions/ JW's

by exwhyzee in

i thought this was an interesting site that discusses end of world predictions.

http://www.humanreligions.info/the_end_of_the_world.html.

there are additional links at the end of this page.

reslight2

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

To the great disappointment of the Russellites, 1914 ushered in nothing more dramatic than the World War, and the sect lost thousands of members.

Actually, the Bible Students, although many were disappointed that they had not been changed to spiritual glory in 1914, were rejoicing that the expected time of trouble had begun in 1914, and admidst this the reports of that time show that several thousand joined themselves to the association f Bible Students.

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

New editions of Russell's Pyramid study were issues with the wording altered at crucial spots to make the errors less obvious. Thus, a 1910 edition had read, '... The deliverance of the saints must take place some time before 1914....' (p. 228) But in 1923, this sentence read, '... the deliverance of the saints must take place very soon after 1914....'

The above was changed in the year 1915, not 1923; nevertheless, Russell had stated this -- that the completion of the change of the saints may not be completed until sometime after 1914 -- to be a possibility several times long before 1914. Indeed, since Russell, from 1904 onward, was no longer to expecting the time of trouble to end in 1914, but rather that it was to begin in 1914, the logical conclusion that would conform to this would be that the first resurrection would continue for sometime after 1914. The restatement authorized in 1915 edition, however, was made simply to conform to the facts. Russell in no way sought to hide these changes, since he publicly printed the "changes" in the Watch Tower magazine, which is still made available to all on many sites on the internet.

http://www.rlbible.com/ctr/?p=692

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

Judge J. F. Rutherford, who succeeded Russell after the pastor died in 1916, eventually discarded Pyramidology entirely. Writing in the November 15 and December 1, 1928, issues ofThe Watch Tower and Herald, Rutherford releases a double-barrelled blast against it [...]

Rutherford, by the manner in which presented the matter, in effect, attributed Satan with having knowledge of the Bible long before most of the Bible had been written.

See Morton Edgar's remarks concerning this:
http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/treatises/edgar%20gp%20discourse.htm

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

The Judge did not remind his readers in these articles that he, too, had been guilty of a prophetic error. For many years he had taught that 1925 would mark the beginning of the great jubilee year.

The year 1925 had been discussed by Russell several times before he died. Russsell himself consistently stated that he saw so significance in the date, although some of his associates seemed to believe that 1925 would see the the end of the first resurrection.

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

Alas, it also had passed, without perceptible upheavals. The sect now discourages the sale and reading of Russell's writing, and although members still believe the Millennium is about to dawn, no definite dates are set.”

Rutherford caused a show-down in the mid 1920s over the "Jehovah's organization" dogma. As a result, during the years 1925 to 1928, more than 75% of the Bible Students openly rejected Rutherford's "Jehovah's visible organization" dogma, by which dogma Rutherford claimed authority over all the Bible Student congregations. The Bible Student movement still exists today, totally separate from the JW organization that Rutherford created.

http://www.rlbible.com/?page_id=500

Bible Students today, as in Russell's day, do not all agree with Russell that the Millennium began in 1874. Russell, unlike Rutherford, never sought to take authority over the Bible Students so as to dictate that all had to agree with him.

17

End of world predictions/ JW's

by exwhyzee in

i thought this was an interesting site that discusses end of world predictions.

http://www.humanreligions.info/the_end_of_the_world.html.

there are additional links at the end of this page.

reslight2

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

Those who refuse are to be annihilated, leaving the world completely cleansed of evil.

Yes, Russell taught after having been given a full knowledge of the truth, and after having been given a full opportunity to accept Jesus as their king, after the 1,000 years are over, Satan is to be loosed, and those who prove themselves to be wicked at that time will be fully annihlated, and then the earth will be completely cleansed of all evil. Russell did not believe, as the JWs teach, that millions of people now blinded by Satan are to be eternally destroyed at the beginning of the Millennium. Russell believed and taught that Armageddon was to be a period of time in which the people of the nations were to be chastised, not eternally destroyed, and that Armageddon was to prepare the nations for the blessings that were to follow.

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

Members of the church alive at the beginning of the Millennium will simply live on forever.

Russell did not at all teach this, not unless by this you mean that he taught that the "church" would be changed from human glory to that of spirit glory, and then they will live forever. Actually, when Brother Russell referred to "the church" or "the saints", he most often meant the 144,000 joint-heirs with Christ. Russell believed that at the begining of the millennium, these were being raised in the first resurrection to the celestial (not terrestrial) glory. Believing that the millennium had begun in 1874, by means of several scriptural applications and parallels, Russell concluded that the first resurrection had begun in the year 1878 and, since he believed that the first resurrection only consisted of the 144,000 (I disagree with this), then he believed that the first resurrection would continue until every member of the 144,000 had been raised, after which Satan was to be abyssed, and the blessing of the nations (heathen) could begin.

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

This is the meaning of the well known slogan of the Witnesses - 'Millions now living will never die.' [...]

While I have not found anyplace that Russell ever said that millions living during his lifetime would never die, he, in effect, did believe that millions of those now blinded by Satan who would be living at the time of Satan's abyssment (whenever that may be) would never die. Russell, however, from 1904 onward, was not expecting this to happen in 1914, but rather sometime after 1914.

17

End of world predictions/ JW's

by exwhyzee in

i thought this was an interesting site that discusses end of world predictions.

http://www.humanreligions.info/the_end_of_the_world.html.

there are additional links at the end of this page.

reslight2

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

According to Russell, the Bible and Pyramid reveal clearly that the Second Coming of Christ took place invisibly in 1874.

One could say that Russell was thoroughly convinced that Christ returned in 1874; I also believe this, although, like Russell, I would not be dogmatic on this so as to say that one had believe this to be a Christian.

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

This ushered in forty years of 'Harvest' during which the true members of the Church are to be called together under Russell's leadership. Before the close of 1914, the Millennium will begin.

Actually, Russell believed that the millennium itself had already begun in 1874, thus he was not looking for it to begin at any future date.

https://www.google.com/search?q=millennium+began+1874&sitesearch=mostholyfaith.com

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

The dead will rise and be given a 'second chance' to accept Christ.

Russell believed that the dead will rise, and, as far as the world now blinded by Satan is concerned, they will be enlightened by the the books that are then opened to them.

I don't know that Russell ever spoke of a "second chance" to accept Christ. In effect, Russell believed that the blessing of their enlightenment in the age to come will be their "first", not "second" real opportunity to accept Jesus with clear knowledge of what is involved.

However, in that all mankind lost their "first chance" for everlasting life when Adam sinned, Russell believed that Jesus' ransom sacrifice has given all of us a "second chance" for everlasting life, whether applied in this age, or in the age to come.

https://www.google.com/search?q=first+chance+lost+adam&sitesearch=mostholyfaith.com

17

End of world predictions/ JW's

by exwhyzee in

i thought this was an interesting site that discusses end of world predictions.

http://www.humanreligions.info/the_end_of_the_world.html.

there are additional links at the end of this page.

reslight2

exwhyzee posted 3/28/2013

In 1891, Pastor Russell published the third volume of his famous series Studies in the Scripture. It is a book of Biblical prophecy, supplemented by evidence from the Great Pyramid. A letter from Smyth is reproduced in which the Scottish astronomer praises Russell highly for his new and original contributions.

Most of what Russell presented in his third volume regarding God's Witness in Egypt was actually borrowed and rephrased from what Barbour had written. As far as the basic ideas presented, Barbour had already presented those ideas several years before.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nelson+barbour+%22great+pyramid%22&sitesearch=heraldmag.org