Posts by reslight2

83

Russell's Pyramidology Originated In Edinburgh Scotland

by cofty in

the edinburgh city observatory sits atop calton hill at the east end of the city centre adjacent to burn's monument, scotland's national monument modelled on the parthenon, and nelson's monument with the time ball that falls at 1pm every day except sundays.. .

the second astronomer royal of edinburgh was charles piazzi smyth (jan. 1819 - feb. 1900).

smyth was a man of many and varied interests including meteorology, producing weather observations that still form an important part of uk climate records to this day.. building on the work of james taylor, smyth became fascinated by the great pyramid of egypt at giza.

reslight2

Either by accident or design Russell actually changed one of Smyth's measurements from 3461 inches to 3416 inches when he used it to calculate the date 1874 for the "beginning of the period of trouble". When 'The End' failed to materialise Russell changed the measurement in 1910 to 3457 inches and announced a new date of 1914. Not only had Russell now corrected his transposition of earlier he also removed four inches from Smyth's measurements in order to back up his revised chronology.

The above appears to be referring to the change Russell made to his third volume in 1905 (not 1910). If so, this change was pertaining to only the floor of the lower part of the descending passageway. It was not a change to Smythe's measurement, since Smythe was unable to measure that lower part due to debris; the attempt was to take Smythe's measure of the ceiling of the passageway and try to project it to the floor. Thus there was already some uncertainty concerning the measurement. Nevertheless, evidently the original projection to the floor of the lower passageway was done by Nelson Barbour.

The details surrounding how the change took place in 1905 is not presented in any records I have been able to find. Evidently, Russell or one of his associates began to question the measurement provided, and a new projection was made, This had nothing to do, however, with any alleged failure of "the end", whatever that is supposed to mean. Nor did the change in the third volume announce a new date. 1914 had already been viewed by many Christians as being the end of the Gentile Times based in Bible prophecies. As best as I can determine, the first person to present 1914 as possible end of the times of the Gentiles was E. B. Elliott in 1844. Russell accepted this believe in 1876, and he announced his acceptance of that date in that same year. Russell presented several lines of Biblical proofs of that date in his second and third volumes of this Studies in the Scriptures. Thus, the change in the third volume in 1905 did not create "a new date", and most definitely the change was not because "the end failed to materialise", whatever that is supposed to mean.

I have more regarding this change on my website:
http://rlctr.blogspot.com/2017/01/changes-gp.html

Russell spent his life and his fortune defending the basic teaching of the atonement by means of Jesus Christ.

83

Russell's Pyramidology Originated In Edinburgh Scotland

by cofty in

the edinburgh city observatory sits atop calton hill at the east end of the city centre adjacent to burn's monument, scotland's national monument modelled on the parthenon, and nelson's monument with the time ball that falls at 1pm every day except sundays.. .

the second astronomer royal of edinburgh was charles piazzi smyth (jan. 1819 - feb. 1900).

smyth was a man of many and varied interests including meteorology, producing weather observations that still form an important part of uk climate records to this day.. building on the work of james taylor, smyth became fascinated by the great pyramid of egypt at giza.

reslight2

The word "pyramidology" basically means study of a pyramid. Russell never used the word "pyramidology", but he did present a Biblical study in which he presented his belief that the Great Pyramid in Egypt is God's Witness in Egypt. I believe the evidence is overwhelming that it is indeed God's Witness in Egypt. There are thousands of Christians today who believe, based on the evidence, that the Great Pyramid is indeed God's Witness in Egypt.
My own website related to God's Witness in Egypt:
https://gpwit.blogspot.com/p/on-this-site.html

Russell's study of God's Witness, however, was not at all the "foundation" for what he believed; indeed, it was simply a method of corroboration of the Bible. His lifetime work overwhelmingly shows that he believed the only foundation for belief is the Bible itself. For some of his own statements regarding this, one might see:
http://rlctr.blogspot.com/2016/11/thebible.html

Russell, however, was never a member of the JW organization. He preached against such sectarian authoritarianism. Unlike the JW leadership, Russell never claimed any authority over fellow believers, and he never demanded that anyone had to accept his conclusions in order to be a Christian. He did not believe in any central authority other than Jesus, the apostles, and the prophets, in the writings of the Bible itself.
http://rlctr.blogspot.com/2016/11/onlyauth.html

For what Russell believed regarding "organization" and his Watch Tower, one might see:
http://rlctr.blogspot.com/2016/10/wtorg.html

6

Pastor Russell letters?

by vienne in

most of those who read my comments and posts here know i'm not a witness but a historian who writes about them.

as my writing partner and i near completion of volume 2 of separate identity, we need scans of any letters, post cards or what have you written by russell, any of his associates or any pre-1916 adherent - no matter how insignificant they may appear.. can you helps with this?

we also need clear scans of watch tower convention programs from that era.. i appreciate any help that comes my way.. rachael.

reslight2

vienne

I am not sure what you are looking for, but one can find all of Brother Russell's known extant published woks at:
http://mostholyfaith.com

Other material may be found at:
http://heraldmag.org/olb/
http://herald-magazine.com

http//archive.org also has many items related to the Bible Students in Russell's time. Sometimes, however, they are hard to find when trying to use their search or other methods provided on the site.

14

A request to our members living in the USA - Time Magazine

by pale.emperor in

i have a request to our friends living in the usa.

im trying to track down an article printed by time magazine in which they interviewed fred franz.

in my local library here in liverpool they have a massive bound volume collection of time going back to the 1930s.

reslight2

mentalclarity is wrong about Russell's expectation for 1914. Russell was never expecting Christ's Second Coming in 1914.

67

Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

by NikL in

jw
friends

paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

reslight2

When I posted my last post, I was thinking I had not posted to this thread before. I see now that I have.

67

Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

by NikL in

jw
friends

paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

reslight2

vienne

Pyramidology did not come from Masonic belief but from two British writers. The one most influential on Russell was Charles Piazzi Smyth. Russell circulated for a brief while a pyramidology book by J. A. Seiss, an American Lutheran pastor. There is nothing in Russell's theology that parallels Masonic belief or practice.

I am a Bible Student; I am not affiliated with the JWs, but I have been studying the writings of Bible Students for more than 50 years, including that of Russell. I am hoping to make a few statements regarding some of the things posted.

Yes, Russell's study of God's Witness in Egypt has nothing at all to do with the Masons. In my discussions with some of the Masons, none of them I have conversed with has any knowledge of God's Witness in Egypt. Indeed, although there might be a some Masons who are Christians who may have taken some interest in the study of God's Witness in Egypt, it does not appear to something generally studied among the Masons. Furthermore, since not all Masons profess to be Christian, it could not be applied universally to the Masons. Nor have a found such an general interest in the study of God's Witness in Egypt among the Knight Templar, although, again, various individual members of Knights Templar may have some interest in such a study. If, however, a Mason were to take a serious interrest in Russell's study of God's Witness in Egypt, it would lead one to the conclusion that being a member of the Masons is actually vanity.

Most of what Russell presented about God's Witness in Egypt came from Nelson Barbour.

Russell never used the word "pyramidology", and as best as I can tell neither did Nelson Barbour. I believe Piazzi Smyth used that word once or twice. The word simply means "pyramid study" or "study of pyramids". As the word was originally used, it did not mean what it is often attributed to that word today: spiritism, pyramid power, etc. Russell did not believe in "pyramid power", spiritism, astrology, etc.

Much of my research related to Russell and the Freemasons may be found at:

http://rlctr.blogspot.com/2016/12/freemasons.html

67

Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

by NikL in

jw
friends

paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

reslight2

Finkelstein stated:

<<So what we have then is strange coincidence of Russell's and others adherence to Pyramidology>>

I am not sure what is meant by "adherence to Pyramidology". My concern is that this terminology would create an idea in many reader's minds that would not actually match the reality. Russell never spoke of "Pyramidology" or of any adherence to such. The word "pyramidology" today, however, is often used to describe many beliefs and practices that Russell rejected, yet I have seen many anti-Russell authors make all kinds of false claims about Russell and "Pyramidology". Russell's Biblical study of God's Witness in Egypt had nothing at all to do with any kind of practice of astrology, spiritism, pyramid power, heathen occult rituals, etc.

Additionally, Russell presented his study on the Great Pyramid, not as being dogma, but rather as his own conclusions. Unlike Rutherford, Russell never claimed any authority to demand that anyone had to accept his conclusions in order to be a Christian, or fellowship with the Bible Students, etc.

Finkelstein stated:

<<and the Freemason's adherence to the Great Pyramid in Egypt and their identity as Stonemason builders, simple coincidence ?>>

So far what I have actually found regarding the Masons and Great Pyramid is scattered individual opinions that offer very little similarity to what Russell taught and believed about the Great Pyramid.

67

Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

by NikL in

jw
friends

paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

reslight2

Crazyguy stated:

<<Wouldn't the pyramid and all the symbols on his grave site as well as him being buried at a Masonic site be a good indication that he was a Mason?>>

The symbols on Russell's grave show that he believed in the harvest that Jesus spoke of.

The symbols on Rutherford's pyramid monument are Biblical symbolism and references to the Bible, including the monument itself.

Russell was not buried at a Masonic site.

There is nothing about Russell's burial site that offers any proof at all the Russell was a Mason.

67

Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

by NikL in

jw
friends

paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

reslight2

Finkelstein stated:

Knights Templar and Masons borrowed from Christian Symbolism, not the other way around.

Of course that is not of debate, Freemasonry is inherently Judaeo Christian.

<<The debate is about from where and from whom did Russell derive "SOME" of his theological ideas or borrowed symbolism.

Seems to be deliberate dismissive about Russell obtaining some theological influence from the Freemason Organization.

Maybe we should adhere to some more intellectual honesty instead biased blindness ?>>

Russell, of course, had no reason to record the lineage of usage of Biblical symbolism he used. The idea that he did not does not give any reason to imagine and assume that he obtained his Biblical symbolism from the Freemason organization. On the other hand, it would really would not make any difference it he did make use of some symbolism as used by the Knights Templar. It actually proves nothing at all.

67

Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com

by NikL in

jw
friends

paul has written an interesting piece on jwfacts.com .

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php.

anyway, it jogged my memory and reminded me of something i thought i would pass on to you.back in the late 80s i had the opportunity to chat with ray franz on the phone and i asked him about this very thing.he didn't say yes or no to russel's masonic connection but what he said was something like, "he is buried in the masonic section of the cemetery so draw your own conclusion.

reslight2

Finkelstein stated:

<<Likewise did he obtain that Knights Templar image used on the top right corner of Zion's Watchtower from a Baptist Church ? Probably not .>>

The fact is that there is no "Knights Templar image used on the top right corner of" Russell's Watch Tower. One may imagine and assume that it is a Knight's Templar symbol, although in reality, there is absolutely no reason to so imagine and assume.

Finkelstein stated:

<<Let it be understood that Russell may not have been a registered Freemason but he did plagiarize and use wherever he thought that would gravitate public interest and support to this publications, The Watchtower or otherwise. >>

I have no reason at all to think Russell lied when he stated: "I have never been a Mason." (Sermon: The Temple of God)

We have the overwhelming testimony of Russell's lifetime works that provide solid evidence that he definitely was not a Mason. It is totally nonsensical to think that Russell spent almost his entire life, his fortune, every day, day after day, teaching and preaching a message that would actually sabotage what he actually believed in. If his works were printed in regular book size with regular type size, more than like it would take more 100,000 page to print it all. Absolutely all of this word he did testifies that he was not in support of what is often attributed to being Masonic agenda, or Illuminati agenda, etc. Why would a man spend all his hours everyday proclaiming a message that actually would sabotage what people like Fritz Springmeier and David Icke have claimed that he was supporting?

Definitely, Russell did not lie when he said, "I have never been a Mason."

http://rlctr.blogspot.com/2017/01/acc-mason.html