Posts by ILoveTTATT2

532

I conclude evolution is guided

by KateWild in

your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

ILoveTTATT2

Even it turned out that Jesus made the first cell out of angel farts evolution still stands beyond all reasonable doubt.

LMAO!! Love it!!

5

Comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic Text: Genealogies in Genesis 5

by ILoveTTATT2 in

i started a thread comparing the septuagint to the masoretic text.it is here:https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5665236409384960/comparing-septuagint-masoretic-textfor those who do not know what the septuagint and the masoretic text are, here's an introduction on wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/septuagint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/masoretic_text.

i think that, more than anything else, the fact that the septuagint and the masoretic text are so different, is what made me stop believing in the bible.. and more than anything else, the most striking differences between the septuagint and the masoretic text have to be the genealogies of genesis 5.. the genealogies of genesis 5 are crucial to the jehovah's witnesses, the adventists, and many other religions that place an emphasis on time prophecy.why is that?because they try to make out when the "end of the world" happens based on the 6000 years of human existence, they have to use genesis 5. and, if the numbers in genesis 5 in the bible most people in the western world use are wrong, then the time to creation is wrong, and then the "end of the world date" is wrong.so, what are the differences?the account tells the ages in this format:x person lived for y years.

ILoveTTATT2

I started a thread comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic text.

It is here:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5665236409384960/comparing-septuagint-masoretic-text

For those who do not know what the Septuagint and the Masoretic text are, here's an introduction on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_Text

I think that, more than anything else, the fact that the Septuagint and the Masoretic text are so different, is what made me stop believing in the Bible.

And more than anything else, the most striking differences between the Septuagint and the Masoretic text have to be the genealogies of Genesis 5.

The genealogies of Genesis 5 are CRUCIAL to the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Adventists, and many other religions that place an emphasis on time prophecy.

Why is that?

Because they try to make out when the "end of the world" happens based on the 6000 years of human existence, they HAVE to use Genesis 5. And, if the numbers in Genesis 5 in the Bible most people in the Western world use are wrong, then the time to creation is wrong, and then the "end of the world date" is wrong.

So, what are the differences?

The account tells the ages in this format:

X person lived for Y years. Then he had a son. Then he lived for Z more years, so his total lifespan was A years.

Let's start with Adam in the Masoretic Text (New World Translation, 1984 version):

(Genesis 5:3-5) 3 And Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth. 4 And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam that he lived amounted to nine hundred and thirty years and he died.

So we have:

Adam, 130 + 800 = 930.

What does the Septuagint say?

Genesis 5:3-5, NETS:

Now Adam lived two hundred thirty years and became a father, according to his form and according to his image and named his name Seth. And the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth amounted to seven hundred years, and he had sons and daughters. And all the days of Adam, that he lived, amounted to nine hundred thirty years, and he died.

Adam, 230 + 700 = 930.

You might say at this moment, "so what? At the end of the day, it says that Adam lived for the same amount of time." That is true, but the most important number in this format is the first one. There are 100 years of difference between Adam becoming father to Seth in the MT and the LXX.

What about the rest of the people in Genesis 5?

You can see them here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogies_of_Genesis#Genesis_numbers

The first number in the list in Genesis is added up with all the generations (and then added with the same formula in Genesis 11), and we get:

The MT gives 1946 years from the creation of Adam until the birth of Abraham.
The LXX gives 3312 years from the creation of Adam until the birth of Abraham.

QUITE THE DIFFERENCE!

This would make the Jehovah's Witnesse's "1975", when supposedly 6000 years of human existence ended, in 609 A.D.

We would be in the year 7,407 after creation if we were to base ourselves on the LXX instead of the MT.

This, just this, is enough for some (me included) to stop believing that the Bible is true and inerrant.

11

Comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic Text

by ILoveTTATT2 in

i am going to start a thread comparing the septuagint to the masoretic text.for those who do not know what the septuagint and the masoretic text are, here's an introduction on wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/septuagint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/masoretic_text.

i think that, more than anything else, the fact that the septuagint and the masoretic text are so different, is what made me stop believing in the bible.. since the new testament writers quoted from the septuagint, not from the masoretic text, one would think that the septuagint should be in all the current bibles, but the case is that most bibles today use the masoretic text as the basis of their old testament.

ILoveTTATT2

Genesis 4:26, LXX (NETS):

And to Seth a son was born, and he named his name Enos. He hoped to invoke the name of the Lord God.

Genesis 4:26, MT (NWT):

And to Seth also there was born a son and he proceeded to call his name E′nosh. At that time a start was made of calling on the name of Jehovah.

Comment: Again, completely different meanings leading to completely different theological conclusions.

CHAPTER 5 HAS SOME INCREDIBLE DIFFERENCES. I WILL POST IN A NEW THREAD.

5

Audiobible NWT

by TheWonderofYou in

jw
friends

i took a look a the org video about the new audiobible and the production process.. most disturbing for me is that the voice of bro.

jackson seems to be always the voice of jesus throughout the bible.

he was the gb member who made the appearance in the australian child abuse commission.. i dont like his voice as jesus and will never listen to the audio bible therefore.. what me wonders much is, how much work those sis and bros do to identify similar speakers in the four gospels so that always the same speaker speaks and how they handle that.. to cover the whole bibel 1000 speakers have been identified and will be trained in reading correctly.. some questions are if the bible says that jehovah speaks, did he really speak himself or something else or if a passage says that the apostel said something, who of the apostels was it actually?.

ILoveTTATT2

I think that they make those pointless projects just to have "Guiness World records" of sorts and say they are the best or unique.

"No one has MEPS".

"No one translates their website into more languages".

"No one has a complete sign language Bible".

"No one has an audio Bible that uses different people for different characters".

5

Audiobible NWT

by TheWonderofYou in

jw
friends

i took a look a the org video about the new audiobible and the production process.. most disturbing for me is that the voice of bro.

jackson seems to be always the voice of jesus throughout the bible.

he was the gb member who made the appearance in the australian child abuse commission.. i dont like his voice as jesus and will never listen to the audio bible therefore.. what me wonders much is, how much work those sis and bros do to identify similar speakers in the four gospels so that always the same speaker speaks and how they handle that.. to cover the whole bibel 1000 speakers have been identified and will be trained in reading correctly.. some questions are if the bible says that jehovah speaks, did he really speak himself or something else or if a passage says that the apostel said something, who of the apostels was it actually?.

ILoveTTATT2

That's ridiculous. So much work for a book of fairy tales.

11

Comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic Text

by ILoveTTATT2 in

i am going to start a thread comparing the septuagint to the masoretic text.for those who do not know what the septuagint and the masoretic text are, here's an introduction on wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/septuagint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/masoretic_text.

i think that, more than anything else, the fact that the septuagint and the masoretic text are so different, is what made me stop believing in the bible.. since the new testament writers quoted from the septuagint, not from the masoretic text, one would think that the septuagint should be in all the current bibles, but the case is that most bibles today use the masoretic text as the basis of their old testament.

ILoveTTATT2

First differences I consider to be important (of course, the one that runs throughout the entire LXX is that YHWH never appears as YHWH, it is always "Lord"):

Genesis 2:18, LXX (NETS):

Then the Lord God said, "It is not good that the man is alone; let us make him a helper corresponding to him."

Genesis 2:18, MT (NWT):

18 And Jehovah God went on to say: “It is not good for the man to continue by himself. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him.”

Comment: Eve was made with help in LXX, only God made Eve in the MT.

Also:
Genesis 2:19, LXX (NETS):

And out of the earth God furthermore formed all the animals of the field and all the birds of the sky and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them, and anything, whatever Adam called it as living creature, this was its name.

MT (NWT):

(Genesis 2:19) 19 Now Jehovah God was forming from the ground every wild beast of the field and every flying creature of the heavens, and he began bringing them to the man to see what he would call each one; and whatever the man would call it, each living soul, that was its name.

Comment: Adam doesn't appear in MT until Genesis 3:17, but appears in LXX in Genesis 2:19.

Genesis 2:23, LXX (NETS):
And Adam said, "This now is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; this one shall be called Woman, for out of her husband she was taken."

Genesis 2: 23, MT (NWT):

Then the man said:“This is at last bone of my bonesAnd flesh of my flesh.This one will be called Woman,Because from man this one was taken.”

Comment: Different meanings in the LXX vs the MT.

Genesis 3:5, LXX (NETS):

for God knew that on the day you eat of it, your eyes would be opened, and you would be like gods knowing good and evil."
Genesis 3:5, MT (NWT):

(Genesis 3:5) 5 For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad.”
Comment: HUGE difference in theological implications. In the LXX, there is the implication that there are many gods, and that once you become a god, you know good and bad. In the MT there is the implication that only God knows what's good and bad.

Genesis 3:10, LXX (NETS):

And he said to him, "I heard the sound of you walking about in the orchard, and I was afraid, because I am naked, and I hid myself."

Genesis 3:10, MT (NWT):
10 Finally he said: “Your voice I heard in the garden, but I was afraid because I was naked and so I hid myself.”

Comment: It is possible that the WT tries to hide the more anthropomorphic version of God in the LXX, since in the LXX God is walking about in the garden.

Genesis 3:15, LXX (NETS):

And I will put enmity between you and between the woman and between your offspring and between her offspring; he will watch your head, and you will watch his heel.

Genesis 3:15, MT (NW):

15 And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.”
Comment: Quite a different thing! One thing is to watch someone's body part, and another to bruise it!

Genesis 4:5-7, LXX (NETS):

but on Kain and on his offerings he was not intent. And it distressed Kain exceedingly, and he collapsed in countenance. And the Lord God said to Kain, "Why have you become deeply grieved, and why has your countenance collapsed? If you offer correctly but do not divide correctly, have you not sinned? Be still; his recourse is to you, and you will rule over him."

Genesis 4:5-7, MT (NWT): 5 he did not look with any favor upon Cain and upon his offering. And Cain grew hot with great anger, and his countenance began to fall. 6 At this Jehovah said to Cain: “Why are you hot with anger and why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you turn to doing good, will there not be an exaltation? But if you do not turn to doing good, there is sin crouching at the entrance, and for you is its craving; and will you, for your part, get the mastery over it?”
Comment: COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! In the LXX, it seems like God liked the offering but not how it was split, and it seems like God is saying to Cain, "don't worry, you will rule over Abel at the end of the day". Cain was portrayed as being saddened, even grieving. In the MT, Cain is portrayed as evil and angry and has an anachronism, where animals are supposedly man-eaters before the flood.

11

Comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic Text

by ILoveTTATT2 in

i am going to start a thread comparing the septuagint to the masoretic text.for those who do not know what the septuagint and the masoretic text are, here's an introduction on wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/septuagint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/masoretic_text.

i think that, more than anything else, the fact that the septuagint and the masoretic text are so different, is what made me stop believing in the bible.. since the new testament writers quoted from the septuagint, not from the masoretic text, one would think that the septuagint should be in all the current bibles, but the case is that most bibles today use the masoretic text as the basis of their old testament.

ILoveTTATT2

I am going to start a thread comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic text.

For those who do not know what the Septuagint and the Masoretic text are, here's an introduction on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_Text

I think that, more than anything else, the fact that the Septuagint and the Masoretic text are so different, is what made me stop believing in the Bible.

Since the New Testament writers quoted from the Septuagint, not from the Masoretic Text, one would think that the Septuagint should be in all the current Bibles, but the case is that most Bibles today use the Masoretic Text as the basis of their Old Testament. But using the Septuagint would be a disaster for Jehovah's Witnesses, given that the major objection that Jehovah's Witnesses would have to it is that YHWH DOESN'T APPEAR AT ALL IN THE SEPTUAGINT.

Some people have said that the Dead Sea Scrolls confirm the authenticity of the Masoretic Text. Not so! In many cases the Masoretic Text, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Septuagint say different things, sometimes the Dead Sea Scrolls (hereafter called DSS) align more with the Septuagint (hereafter called LXX) than the Masoretic Text (hereafter called MT).

I haven't found something like this online anywhere else, a text-by-text comparison of the entire Septuagint, trying to find the major differences, so I will start it here.

7

False Prophecy in the Bible: Zebulun

by ILoveTTATT2 in

oops... guess they didn't look at the map when making up the book of genesis...(genesis 49:13) 13 “zeb′u·lun will reside by the seashore, and he will be by the shore where the ships lie anchored; and his remote side will be toward si′don..

ILoveTTATT2

Hi Skin, it is Zebulun, I just used the map in the Spanish WT library, but it is the same spelling in the English map, so they're the same.

Wolfman, I stopped reading biblical apologist material a long time ago. There is no way, like, absolutely no way, that the Bible is remotely "the Word of God". There are hundreds, possibly thousands, of details like these that are contradictions and/ot false prophecies.

If it was one, yeah... But hundreds and hundreds? No way!

28

Jehovah loves "even rounded numbers" or could this be a way to disprove the inspiration of the Bible?

by notjustyet in

while i am not able to recall them all at this time, i remember so many instances that when a number was quoted in the bible, especially large numbers, they were all "rounded up" to the nearest hundred or thousand.

for instance the angel killed 185,000 syrians, not 184,879. sampson killed a thousand men with the jawbone of an ass, not 961. and on and on on the even rounded numbers.

i would guess that it could be agues that these numbers were correct but is that realistic?

ILoveTTATT2

I think you should read this. After reading this, I think you will be pretty sure that all of the numbers in the Bible are made up bullshit.

Look at the differences in ages in the genealogies of Genesis between the Masoretic text and the Septuagint:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogies_of_Genesis

4

First edition (1891) Millennial Dawn: Thy Kingdom Come now online

by cabasilas in

google books has just put up a scan of the first edition of millennial dawn volume 3: thy kingdom come (1891).

this scan is from the 90,000 printing.

i haven't had a chance to check to see if there are any signficant textual changes from the later editions in this one or not.

ILoveTTATT2

I can't see it... must be because I am in Mexico. =(