ILoveTTATT2

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Posts by ILoveTTATT2

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  11

  Need Proof that Joseph Smith was a Mason

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many sites claim that c.t.

  russell was a mason.barbara anderson and james penton, respected wt historians, claim that he was not.according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_freemasonsthroughout history some members of the fraternity have made no secret of their involvement, while others have not made their membership public.

  in some cases, membership can only be proven by searching through the fraternity's records.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  This is a much better version (facsimile) of the book History of the Church:

  https://archive.org/details/historyofchurcho04robe
  
  
  
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  11

  Need Proof that Joseph Smith was a Mason

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many sites claim that c.t.

  russell was a mason.barbara anderson and james penton, respected wt historians, claim that he was not.according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_freemasonsthroughout history some members of the fraternity have made no secret of their involvement, while others have not made their membership public.

  in some cases, membership can only be proven by searching through the fraternity's records.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Thank you!
  
  I found the History of the Church online, and therefore I confirmed the quote on Wikipedia:

  https://ia600501.us.archive.org/4/items/HistoryOfTheChurchhcVolumes1-7original1902EditionPdf/hoc.pdf
  
• 
  11

  Need Proof that Joseph Smith was a Mason

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many sites claim that c.t.

  russell was a mason.barbara anderson and james penton, respected wt historians, claim that he was not.according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_freemasonsthroughout history some members of the fraternity have made no secret of their involvement, while others have not made their membership public.

  in some cases, membership can only be proven by searching through the fraternity's records.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Many sites claim that C.T. Russell was a Mason.
  
  Barbara Anderson and James Penton, respected WT historians, claim that he was not.
  
  According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freemasons
  
  Throughout history some members of the fraternity have made no secret of their involvement, while others have not made their membership public. In some cases, membership can only be proven by searching through the fraternity's records. Such records are most often kept at the individual lodge level, and may be lost due to fire, flood, deterioration, or simple carelessness. Grand Lodge governance may have shifted or reorganized, resulting in further loss of records on the member or the name, number, location or even existence of the lodge in question. In areas of the world where Masonry has been suppressed by governments, records of entire grand lodges have been destroyed. Because of this, masonic membership can sometimes be difficult to verify.
  
  Barbara already checked the records and there is no record of C.T. Russell:
  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/98890/heres-proof-that-charles-taze-russell-pennsylvania-freemason
  
  

  Yet over the years critics of Russell and Jehovah’s Witnesses have continued to use Ross’s fallacious statement plus a number of other charges, two of which should be regarded as utter nonsense. The first is that Russell was into occult practices, and the second is that he was a Freemason. [127] The first claim is based almost entirely on his use of certain symbols such as the winged disk that appeared on copies of Studies in the Scriptures and the cross and crown motif that appeared in Watch Tower literature and was often worn by Bible Students as religious ornaments. But instead of being drawn from Egyptian paganism as has been asserted by Russell’s adversaries, the winged disks simply represented “the sun of righteousness” that would “arise with healing in his wings” according to Malachi 4: 2. As for the cross and crown motif, it was simply a common one in the nineteenth and earlier centuries that was used by many Christian groups. Equally specious is the claim that Russell was a Freemason. That is easy to see from comments in which he advised Bible Students against becoming Masons [128] and by his lack of knowledge of the work and rituals of Freemasonry."

  
  Penton, M. James. Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses, Third Edition (p. 64). University of Toronto Press, Scholarly Publishing Division. Kindle Edition.
  
  Footnotes:
  
  

  127 For a prime example of such claims, see Fritz Springmeier, The Watchtower and the Masons (Portland, Oregon: printed privately, 1990).

  128 He stated: “We note also the Order of Free Masons, if judged by its past history, has some secret object or scheme, more than fraternity and financial aid in time of sickness or death. And, so far as we can judge, there is a certain amount of profane worship or mummery connected with the rites of this order and some others, which members do not comprehend, but which, in many cases, serves to satisfy the cravings of the natural mind for worship, and thus hinders it from seeking the worship of God in spirit and truth – through Christ, the only appointed Mediator and Grand Master” (WT, reprints 1827).

  Penton, M. James. Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses, Third Edition (p. 415). University of Toronto Press, Scholarly Publishing Division. Kindle Edition.
  
  So that is proof enough for me that Russell wasn't a Mason.
  
  However, it is very well known (and public even) that Joseph Smith and many early Mormon leaders were Masons.
  
  My question is, where are the records? I have tried searching everywhere online but cannot find one way to actually prove that Joseph Smith was a Mason.
  
  If anyone knows, that would be really appreciated.

  Thanks!
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  80

  The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.

  while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.

  we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  I read about the difference between the Hadith and the Quran. My point still stands. Although the Quran itself does not have a "stone adulterers" text, the Hadith does, and now, comparing again to Christianity:
  
  The Quran is like the New Testament. A lot more "chill" than the Old Testament, but still has horrible things in it.
  The Hadith is like the Old Testament. Very horrible things in it.
  
  The problem is that Christianity's holy texts go from VIOLENT to PEACEFUL(ISH). Islamic holy texts go from PEACEFUL(ISH) to VIOLENT.
  
  So it's worse.
  
  Now, I don't support a total ban of Muslims, but I do support heavy vetting. The vetting was already pretty heavy during the Obama administration.
  
  I don't support welcoming hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, without at least making sure that they will respect the laws and the customs of the lands where they go. But, given the fundamental nature of the religion, this is highly unlikely. At some point, they will want to implement their own rules.
  
  
  
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  80

  The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.

  while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.

  we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Rainbow, I need to research what you just said. If true, then that would change my viewpoint completely.
• 
  80

  The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.

  while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.

  we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Ok Perry,

  I know you like being apologetic for Christianity, but no. It's got its share of really horrible things. The point is twofold:
  
  1) Christianity has moved on from being horrible, as in the Middle Ages.

  2) More importantly, IT HAS AN OUT. It doesn't HAVE to follow the Mosaic Law, which is absolutely horrible and at par with the Koran, or possibly worse. Islam doesn't have an "out", unless you consider the interpreters of the law, similar to Jews. Most interpreters of the Jews are extremely liberal, whereas the interpreters of the Muslims aren't.

  Islam needs hundreds of years to "grow up". It needs to.
• 
  80

  The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.

  while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.

  we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Well, the problem is, that you have a religion where there are various levels of following it, and it only takes a little for a "moderate" Muslim to become a religious fanatic. Very similar to many, many cases of JW's that lead a double life or are "weak" and then suddenly become the obnoxious pious-sneer.
  
  Except that instead of preaching and being a dickhead, Muslims can become jihadists...
• 
  80

  The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.

  while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.

  we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  https://www.penalreform.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Sharia-law-and-the-death-penalty.pdf
  
  Qisas crimes: Murder 11 Arguments against the death penalty for the offence of murder in Islam: victim forgiveness and restitution 13 ‘Most serious crimes’ threshold 15 Hudud crimes – ‘claims against God’ 15 Zina: adultery 17 Riddah: apostasy 22 Hirabah: ‘waging war against God’ or brigandage or banditry or robbery 24 Ta‘zir crimes 25 Other death penalty applicable offences 26 Drug offences 26 Homosexuality 27 Sorcery and witchcraft 28
  
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  80

  The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.

  while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.

  we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Ever since I came out of the witnesses, I've become very political.

  I've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.

  In the U.S. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to Muslims. While there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.
  
  We as exJW's constantly quote the PEW center for statistics on JW's such as: They are last place in the US for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion. We accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the JW's are.
  
  Now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on Islam:
  
  http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/
  
  

  These statistics easily represent millions upon millions of people.
  
  For example, in Afghanistan, 99% of people are Muslim. 99% of these (according to these stats) want Shariah.
  
  That would mean that OVER THIRTY MILLION PEOPLE want Shariah to be the law of the land.
  
  Now, here is my key proposition:
  
  Christianity believes in both the New and the Old Testament. Depending on the individual religion, they cherry pick parts of the Old Testament that they want to follow, and so some religions say that gays are an abomination, that abortion should be illegal, etc. I don't know of any Christian religion that wishes to follow the following Bible texts literally:
  
  

  (Deuteronomy 13:9, 10) 9 but you should kill him without fail. Your hand first of all should come upon him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people afterward. 10 And you must stone him with stones, and he must die, because he has sought to turn you away from Jehovah your God, who has brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves.

  
  (Deuteronomy 17:5) 5 you must also bring that man or that woman who has done this bad thing out to your gates, yes, the man or the woman, and you must stone such one with stones, and such one must die.
  (Leviticus 20:14) 14 “‘And where a man takes a woman and her mother, it is loose conduct. They should burn him and them in the fire, in order that loose conduct may not continue in YOUR midst.
  (Leviticus 20:10-13) 10 “‘Now a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife is one who commits adultery with the wife of his fellowman. He should be put to death without fail, the adulterer and the adulteress as well. 11 And a man who lies down with his father’s wife has laid bare the nakedness of his father. Both of them should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them. 12 And where a man lies down with his daughter-in-law, both of them should be put to death without fail. They have committed a violation of what is natural. Their own blood is upon them. 13 “‘And when a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them.
  etc etc... you get the point.
  
  There IS death penalty in the US for murder and some other crimes such as treason, rape, kidnapping, etc... but in general it is only applied for murder. Applying the death penalty for adultery would be considered "savage", and in fact, the US is the only western country with a death penalty at all. (But my focus is not the death penalty itself, it's the CRIMES for which it can be applied).
  
  Why are the nastiest parts of the Old Testament ignored?
  
  Because of texts like these:
  
  (Romans 6:14) 14 For sin must not be master over YOU, seeing that YOU are not under law but under undeserved kindness.
  Essentially, it is understood that Christians are NOT under the Mosaic Law, and therefore they feel free to ignore such commands.
  
  THERE IS NO SUCH THOUGHT IN ISLAM!!
  
  The Koran and the Old Testament, in many ways read the same.
  
  If someone wanted to implement Old Testament rules such as stoning for adultery, I'd be scared shitless!
  
  The "theocracy" that some extreme right wing Christians would like to implement is not as scary as implementing Shariah law! Although both are bad, definitely Shariah is worse!!
  
  So I have come to the conclusion that it is a very reasonable and sensible thing to be wary of too much immigration from people who would like Shariah to be the law of the land. Would you allow Puritans/1400's Catholics who wanted to implement murdering those of other religions into your country?
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  34

  Have a friend who only speaks Spanish and want him/her to learn TTATT? www.verdadtj.com

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you have a friend who only speaks spanish, or they speak english but spanish is their preferred language, i am pleased to tell you that there is a spanish translation of jwfacts in progress.

  so far, these are the completely translated articles:asociación de la watchtower con las naciones unidas - un ngo associationcelebración de los cumpleaños - birthdayslas transfusiones de sangre - bloodpredicción fallida de 1975 - 1975¿por qué está mal el ser un testigo de jehová?

  - what's wrong with being a jw?escándalos de la watchtower - watchtower scandalsexpulsión y rechazo - disfellowshippingfolleto general acerca de la watchtower - pdf - general pdf about wtvideo - crecer como testigo de jehová - growing up a jw¿debería estar jehová en el nuevo testamento?

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  ILoveTTATT2

  SSA,

  Are you bilingual?
  Do you know HTML?
  
  If so, please PM me.
  
  I am doing the translation mainly, and I am in constant communication with Paul.