Posts by ILoveTTATT2

22

I have a theory related to the cult spectrum

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

translating jwfacts into spanish has made me critically analyze pretty much everything paul has written.

i would say paul is right 90%+ of the time.

some things are just things that are outdated, on other occasions, things are partially right and just need to be tweaked.anyhow... one of the articles is "where else would i go"?since i am an atheist, ideally, for me, the answer would be "become at least agnostic, if not atheist, and lead an evidence-based life".

ILoveTTATT2

This is my thinking of how various groups fall in the 4 quadrants:

22

I have a theory related to the cult spectrum

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

translating jwfacts into spanish has made me critically analyze pretty much everything paul has written.

i would say paul is right 90%+ of the time.

some things are just things that are outdated, on other occasions, things are partially right and just need to be tweaked.anyhow... one of the articles is "where else would i go"?since i am an atheist, ideally, for me, the answer would be "become at least agnostic, if not atheist, and lead an evidence-based life".

ILoveTTATT2

We of all people should have it down by now: a cult fits the BITE model to a high degree. What does this mean? It has a high to very high control over people's lives. They shun ex members, it's difficult to leave, they discipline the members harshly, they don't allow members to read negative information about the group, etc.

Compare these two situations:

A JW says to his JW family he doesn't want to be a JW anymore. He repeats the same to the judicial committee. He is disfellowshipped and shunned.

A run-of-the-mill regular Catholic says he doesn't want to go to church anymore to his family. His family is dissapointed temporarily. Nothing else happens.

There's a world of difference, therefore, between a regular Catholic and a regular JW. The Catholic Church, when measured solely over the de facto control it has over people's lives, is a very healthy church, and one could argue, the most "orthodox" of all.

But... I mentioned a regular Catholic. It is NOT so for a member of the Opus Dei. The Opus Dei is like Catholics on Steroids... super fanatic Catholics. Become a Numerary or Supernumerary and then leave the Opus Dei, and YOU WILL BE SHUNNED by the Opus Dei members. Therefore, Opus Dei, even though they are super orthodox, are a cult in the BITE model.

So back to my point:

There are four quadrants in the spectrum: Orthodox Healthy, Orthodox Cult, Heterodox Healthy, Heterodox Cult.

There are plenty of Orthodox Healthy denominations. I can't think of a Heterodox denomination that isn't a cult by BITE model standards.

Can you think of any? If so, which one, and why??

22

I have a theory related to the cult spectrum

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

translating jwfacts into spanish has made me critically analyze pretty much everything paul has written.

i would say paul is right 90%+ of the time.

some things are just things that are outdated, on other occasions, things are partially right and just need to be tweaked.anyhow... one of the articles is "where else would i go"?since i am an atheist, ideally, for me, the answer would be "become at least agnostic, if not atheist, and lead an evidence-based life".

ILoveTTATT2

I haven't heard of any high demand, controlling group, such as cults, that has made changes to become a mainstream religion.

Check out the Worldwide Church of God... they were a BITE model cult, and now Grace International, from what I have read, isn't... but they went from non-mainstream to mainstream.

22

I have a theory related to the cult spectrum

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

translating jwfacts into spanish has made me critically analyze pretty much everything paul has written.

i would say paul is right 90%+ of the time.

some things are just things that are outdated, on other occasions, things are partially right and just need to be tweaked.anyhow... one of the articles is "where else would i go"?since i am an atheist, ideally, for me, the answer would be "become at least agnostic, if not atheist, and lead an evidence-based life".

ILoveTTATT2

Translating jwfacts into Spanish has made me critically analyze pretty much everything Paul has written. I would say Paul is right 90%+ of the time. Some things are just things that are outdated, on other occasions, things are partially right and just need to be tweaked.

Anyhow... One of the articles is "where else would I go"?

Since I am an atheist, ideally, for me, the answer would be "become at least agnostic, if not atheist, and lead an evidence-based life". But not everyone is ready to make that jump.

I have no problems in recommending Christianity to people, at least in the anglo world, there are plenty of healthy churches that provide what most people really are looking for when they go to church: a social environment where they worship God together.

That's all right, but the problem is this:

Jehovah's Witnesses's beliefs are very non-mainstream Christianity:

No trinity
No celebrating Christmas (as in, not celebrating Christ's birth)
No immortality of the soul
No hell
Afterlife/resurrection options are: Heaven/paradise on Earth forever / die forever
Cross is a false symbol, Jesus died on a "tree".

For many newly awakened exJW's who want to still have a religion, going to a church that teaches:

The trinity
Celebrating Christmas
The soul is immortal...

Etc...

Would be anathema.

But then here is the problem:

EVERY SINGLE KNOWN CHRISTIAN RELIGION THAT TEACHES NON-MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY IS A CULT, NOT BY THE RELIGIOUS CULT DEFINITION, BUT BY STEVEN HASSAN'S DEFINITION!

Christadelphians? Cult.
JW's? Cult
Mormons? Cult
SDA's? If they are strict, Cult.
Bible Students? Cult
Iglesia Ni Cristo? Cult
Two-By-Two's? Cult
Christian Scientists? Cult
Worldwide Church of God? Cult

On the other hand:

Typical Catholic? Healthy church (In that it does NOT have the level of control over people's lives such as a BITE model cult)
Typical Anglican? Healthy
Typical (insert mayor Christianity branch): in general, healthy.
Worldwide Church of God, now Grace International: Healthy, but now is mainstream Christian.

So my theory is:

Cults become cults in the BITE model sense because they are different and "persecuted". Once they become mainstream, they let go of the cult characteristics and become a healthy church, but at the cost of losing their "non-mainstream" views.

Could you think of any christian denomination that teaches non-mainstream stuff and is NOT a cult in the BITE model sense?