Posts by ILoveTTATT2

i'm sure orphancrow will be able to fill in the details for us.. front page news with picture all over the canadian globe and mail newspaper today.. with major double-page spread across the whole of pages 8 and 9 in the newspaper's front section.. globe and mail, tuesday 8 august 2017.. the patient, a 70-year-old man with high-risk prostate cancer, was a jehovah’s witness.. his religion was one of the reasons he decided to undergo surgery at st. joseph’s healthcare in hamilton, home to a robot named da vinci whose steady metal hands can remove a prostate with scant risk of the blood transfusions forbidden by the man’s faith.. on a recent afternoon, the patient laid unconscious on an operating table as surgeon bobby shayegan and his team plunged a camera and three robotically controlled surgical instruments through small incisions in his abdomen.. dr. shayegan settled himself in front of a three-dimensional screen, clasped the two joysticks that controlled the tools inside his patient’s pelvis and proceeded to cut, cauterize and stitch until he freed the man’s prostate, pulling it out through one of the original incisions.. there was next to no blood.. “that was routine,” dr. shayegan said afterward, holding the plum-sized gland that he and the robot had removed together.

...in its first real ruling on a robotic surgery, the expert committee that advises ontario on which new health technologies to pay for said there was no good evidence that robot-assisted radical prostatectomy is any better than conventional open surgery when it comes to controlling cancer or preserving urinary and sexual function.. the panel said the robot’s other benefits – patients have smaller incisions, lose less blood, suffer less pain and leave the hospital sooner – were not significant enough to justify spending, on average, an extra $3,224 a case, a figure that does not include the millions that wealthy benefactors have spent buying the machines for canadian hospitals.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/the-fight-for-robots-in-canadas-operatingrooms/article35897282/.

ILoveTTATT2

OC...

I was saying that the data against the procedure is flawed. Comparing apples to oranges... It seems one sided, the Government using one study vs the doctors saying they support the procedure, and people even paying for the extra costs...

I will go where the data leads, but then the urologists or scientists or whoever makes the data, should come up with a good study which decisively shows benefits or drawbacks either way...

That was my point.

14

Canada starts fight-back against bloodless surgery?

by darkspilver in

i'm sure orphancrow will be able to fill in the details for us.. front page news with picture all over the canadian globe and mail newspaper today.. with major double-page spread across the whole of pages 8 and 9 in the newspaper's front section.. globe and mail, tuesday 8 august 2017.. the patient, a 70-year-old man with high-risk prostate cancer, was a jehovah’s witness.. his religion was one of the reasons he decided to undergo surgery at st. joseph’s healthcare in hamilton, home to a robot named da vinci whose steady metal hands can remove a prostate with scant risk of the blood transfusions forbidden by the man’s faith.. on a recent afternoon, the patient laid unconscious on an operating table as surgeon bobby shayegan and his team plunged a camera and three robotically controlled surgical instruments through small incisions in his abdomen.. dr. shayegan settled himself in front of a three-dimensional screen, clasped the two joysticks that controlled the tools inside his patient’s pelvis and proceeded to cut, cauterize and stitch until he freed the man’s prostate, pulling it out through one of the original incisions.. there was next to no blood.. “that was routine,” dr. shayegan said afterward, holding the plum-sized gland that he and the robot had removed together.

...in its first real ruling on a robotic surgery, the expert committee that advises ontario on which new health technologies to pay for said there was no good evidence that robot-assisted radical prostatectomy is any better than conventional open surgery when it comes to controlling cancer or preserving urinary and sexual function.. the panel said the robot’s other benefits – patients have smaller incisions, lose less blood, suffer less pain and leave the hospital sooner – were not significant enough to justify spending, on average, an extra $3,224 a case, a figure that does not include the millions that wealthy benefactors have spent buying the machines for canadian hospitals.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/the-fight-for-robots-in-canadas-operatingrooms/article35897282/.

ILoveTTATT2

There is very little good data that shows benefits/drawbacks, and the data is flawed... the entire rest of the article says so!

14

Canada starts fight-back against bloodless surgery?

by darkspilver in

i'm sure orphancrow will be able to fill in the details for us.. front page news with picture all over the canadian globe and mail newspaper today.. with major double-page spread across the whole of pages 8 and 9 in the newspaper's front section.. globe and mail, tuesday 8 august 2017.. the patient, a 70-year-old man with high-risk prostate cancer, was a jehovah’s witness.. his religion was one of the reasons he decided to undergo surgery at st. joseph’s healthcare in hamilton, home to a robot named da vinci whose steady metal hands can remove a prostate with scant risk of the blood transfusions forbidden by the man’s faith.. on a recent afternoon, the patient laid unconscious on an operating table as surgeon bobby shayegan and his team plunged a camera and three robotically controlled surgical instruments through small incisions in his abdomen.. dr. shayegan settled himself in front of a three-dimensional screen, clasped the two joysticks that controlled the tools inside his patient’s pelvis and proceeded to cut, cauterize and stitch until he freed the man’s prostate, pulling it out through one of the original incisions.. there was next to no blood.. “that was routine,” dr. shayegan said afterward, holding the plum-sized gland that he and the robot had removed together.

...in its first real ruling on a robotic surgery, the expert committee that advises ontario on which new health technologies to pay for said there was no good evidence that robot-assisted radical prostatectomy is any better than conventional open surgery when it comes to controlling cancer or preserving urinary and sexual function.. the panel said the robot’s other benefits – patients have smaller incisions, lose less blood, suffer less pain and leave the hospital sooner – were not significant enough to justify spending, on average, an extra $3,224 a case, a figure that does not include the millions that wealthy benefactors have spent buying the machines for canadian hospitals.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/the-fight-for-robots-in-canadas-operatingrooms/article35897282/.

ILoveTTATT2

My dad had this type of surgery. If he would have not been a witness, and he couldn't care less about BT's, he would have still asked for this surgery. If they had asked him to pay up the extra money, he would have paid the extra money.

It's 99% about Ontario being cheap asses and 1% about BT's and Jehovah's Witnesses. The improvements on risk of incontinence and sexual dysfunction alone are worth it!

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

ILoveTTATT2

I guess in a nutshell you are saying:

If the Witnesses are right about this topic, then God must be giving them their support.

Um... a broken clock is right twice a day. Remember, they mentioned 1914, a huge event happened in 1914, and for many that don't investigate further, that is enough to believe in the Witnesses. But you know better SBF. You know about 1925, 1975, 2000, the generation... etc...

Same thing with this. Maybe... just maybe... Witnesses are right in their "gut feeling" that "Jehovah" was in the original NT.

Proof would only need to be an old enough manuscript of the NT (preferably 3rd century or earlier) with "IAO" or the tetragramaton in Hebrew...

With one manuscript, that would be sufficient to turn all of this from conjecture to a distinct possibility that JW's are completely right about this topic.

But then... to justify all 237 spots, manuscripts with IAO on those spots would have to be found... and that's a tall order...

Or maybe... like almost everything the Witnesses have done, maybe they're right about "Jehovah" being originally in the NT... but every single location where they placed it is wrong...

That would totally crush your hypothesis that they being right about the name being in the NT is proof of their blessing from God. It would be proof again that a broken clock is right twice a day... and they just got lucky.

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

ILoveTTATT2

I wonder if you've read my response to Laika on page 9 on the subject of corruption of the text. One response to a corrupt text is to say it can't be inspired. But another possible possible response is to say that God has restored it in his due time. I'm not making a strong argument for this view. What I'm saying is that it's a possible way of looking at the situation for those who maintain both the divine name and the inspiration of the text.

Hi SBF, yes, I did read it. I dislike it because you are moving the goalposts.

Believers can move the goalposts all they like and it pisses me off. I like to work with what is in evidence, but I will indulge the believer's point of view for a moment.

If the believers' point of view is true, then my response would be "then God is an asshole."

He makes the text, then allows it to be corrupt, then chooses one group out of thousands of others and makes them say false prophecies, and interpret the Bible wrongly regarding blood, needlessly shortening thousands of people's lives... BUT... BUT He makes them pull "Jehovah" out of thin air and place it EXACTLY where it's supposed to go in the NT of the NWT... 237 places. Completely out of thin air, because He allowed all autographs to be lost and EVERY SINGLE COPY SINCE has had "Jehovah" removed and the copies with "Jehovah" have never been found.

And He expects you to believe that this group is the one and true religion, and condemns you to eternal nothingness/horribly painful death because you didn't believe in this one group.

Seriously dude? Seriously?

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

ILoveTTATT2

Another aspect that in 21 pages has been barely considered:

The J versions.

Let's suppose, again, that SBF is correct. The NT originally had a form of the Divine Name in it. There is ONE manuscript found, from the 1st or 2nd century, which has YHWH in Hebrew, or IAO... or something that clearly shows the Divine Name instead of KY...

Ok. Great. This would again imply that the Bible is corrupt in its entirety... For almost 2000 years the text of the NT has been based on a corrupt version where the Divine Name was removed in its entirety.

But there is more. Definitely this manuscript would allow the witnesses to put "Jehovah" ONLY IN THAT SPOT.

Suppose the manuscript found is of Matthew 22:43-44, and it actually reads like the NWT:

(Matthew 22:43, 44) 43 He said to them: “How, then, is it that David by inspiration calls him ‘Lord,’ saying, 44 ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet”’?

Woah. That would be an AMAZING "vindication" of Jehovah's Witnesses. But... like I've said before... it would still keep me an atheist. The rest of the Bible has been shown to have been corrupted. But let's forget about that for a moment.

There would still be 236 places where all other manuscripts found (over 5000) say "Lord" or "God".

...

Now... let's change this scenario up a bit. They find a manuscript from the 3rd century that is from a different part of the NT and it reads like this:

(Acts 9:5) 5 He asked: “Who are you, Lord? And IAO/YHWH said: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
Now what? Instead of vindicating JW's, it would vindicate all other Christian religions. It would be DIRECT PROOF of the Trinity! (or at least that Jesus is Jehovah).

Well...

This is exactly how one of the J versions reads (J7 to be exact, J7 Christian Greek Scriptures in 12 languages, including Heb., by Elias Hutter, Nuremberg, 1599.)

Notice how the Hebrew version has YHWH and the Spanish (and in fact, the other 11 languages) have "Lord" in that verse.

As Paul repeatedly has told you, the presentation of this topic is EXTREMELY DISHONEST in WT literature.

The J versions are in their majority extremely trinitarian. They explicitly and in many places say that YHWH is Jesus.

But the witnesses have used the J versions selectively to end up with a very non-trinitarian Bible that, nonetheless, has "Jehovah" wherever they please. Particularly in places where it would diminish Jesus' divinity.