Was this literally the first post of the entire forum?
ILoveTTATT2
JoinedPosts by ILoveTTATT2
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Welcome !
by Simon inwelcome to the newest jehovah's witness discussion forum on the net.. please register so that you can post to the forum and turn this into a welcoming place for other brothers and sisters online
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Did you know that J.F. Rutherford was part of the Knights of Pythias? There's PROOF for this!
by ILoveTTATT2 inwow.
wow.
wow.someone just sent me a scan of the boonville advertiser newspaper in which it mentions j.f.
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ILoveTTATT2
What he did pre-conversion is no where near as "telling" as what he did afterwards. This is interesting to a degree - but in my opinion, irrelevant to his life as a Bible Student and then President of the organization.
Maybe that's why it's almost never included in the WT history biographies. I had only seen something related to this in that he campaigned for the Democratic party at some point, and he needed connections. Maybe some further research can let us know if he was a member after becoming a Bible Student. -
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Did you know that J.F. Rutherford was part of the Knights of Pythias? There's PROOF for this!
by ILoveTTATT2 inwow.
wow.
wow.someone just sent me a scan of the boonville advertiser newspaper in which it mentions j.f.
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ILoveTTATT2
Wow. Wow. Wow.
Someone just sent me a scan of the Boonville Advertiser newspaper in which it mentions J.F. Rutherford as a member, and not only just a member but the toastmaster for the inauguration of the Golden Gate Lodge No.91, Knights of Pythias.
Also, he was a member of the Woodmen of the World.
Although not a "Masonic" organization, it was included in Russell's condemnation of such organizations:
the Free Masons, Odd Fellows, Knights of Pythias, etc., perform certain rites and ceremonies of a religious kind... We place upon one level all of those who have any religious ceremonies, teachings, etc., and consider them all as parts of Babylon ... We admonish the New Creation to have nothing whatever to do with any of these semi-religious societies, clubs, orders, churches; but to "Come out from amongst them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing." (`2 Cor. 6:17`)" —1904; "The New Creation", pp. 580-581
Of course, this was in 1899, about 7 years before Rutherford became a Bible Student (JW). But still, this is something about his life that I haven't seen anywhere else on the internet or on the WT history books I have read.
Here is the evidence:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g6awjVQwljN0FoT09nOWRQUWshttps://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g6awjVQwljaVFCaVVOTEkya2M
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g6awjVQwljNkVjVWM5NUlzTTQ
What do you think of this?
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"Heritage" Vintage JW movie from 1966
by NikL ini can't remember where i first heard about this movie but it was recently.
i guess they even showed it on tv.
probably payed for like an infomercial.. anyway, i looked it up on youtube and viola!.
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ILoveTTATT2
This got me thinking... has anyone got access to the rest of the pre-1966 films?
Specifically,- God Cannot Lie (1966) ... Production Company
Heritage (1966) ... Production Company- Proclaiming 'Everlasting Good News' Around the World (1964) ... Production Company
- Divine Will International Assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses (1959) ... Production Company
- The Happiness of the New World Society (1956) ... Production Company
- The New World Society in Action (1954) ... Production Company
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Need Proof that Joseph Smith was a Mason
by ILoveTTATT2 inmany sites claim that c.t.
russell was a mason.barbara anderson and james penton, respected wt historians, claim that he was not.according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_freemasonsthroughout history some members of the fraternity have made no secret of their involvement, while others have not made their membership public.
in some cases, membership can only be proven by searching through the fraternity's records.
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ILoveTTATT2
This is a much better version (facsimile) of the book History of the Church:
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Need Proof that Joseph Smith was a Mason
by ILoveTTATT2 inmany sites claim that c.t.
russell was a mason.barbara anderson and james penton, respected wt historians, claim that he was not.according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_freemasonsthroughout history some members of the fraternity have made no secret of their involvement, while others have not made their membership public.
in some cases, membership can only be proven by searching through the fraternity's records.
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ILoveTTATT2
Thank you!
I found the History of the Church online, and therefore I confirmed the quote on Wikipedia:https://ia600501.us.archive.org/4/items/HistoryOfTheChurchhcVolumes1-7original1902EditionPdf/hoc.pdf
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Need Proof that Joseph Smith was a Mason
by ILoveTTATT2 inmany sites claim that c.t.
russell was a mason.barbara anderson and james penton, respected wt historians, claim that he was not.according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_freemasonsthroughout history some members of the fraternity have made no secret of their involvement, while others have not made their membership public.
in some cases, membership can only be proven by searching through the fraternity's records.
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ILoveTTATT2
Many sites claim that C.T. Russell was a Mason.
Barbara Anderson and James Penton, respected WT historians, claim that he was not.
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freemasons
Throughout history some members of the fraternity have made no secret of their involvement, while others have not made their membership public. In some cases, membership can only be proven by searching through the fraternity's records. Such records are most often kept at the individual lodge level, and may be lost due to fire, flood, deterioration, or simple carelessness. Grand Lodge governance may have shifted or reorganized, resulting in further loss of records on the member or the name, number, location or even existence of the lodge in question. In areas of the world where Masonry has been suppressed by governments, records of entire grand lodges have been destroyed. Because of this, masonic membership can sometimes be difficult to verify.
Barbara already checked the records and there is no record of C.T. Russell:
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/98890/heres-proof-that-charles-taze-russell-pennsylvania-freemasonYet over the years critics of Russell and Jehovah’s Witnesses have continued to use Ross’s fallacious statement plus a number of other charges, two of which should be regarded as utter nonsense. The first is that Russell was into occult practices, and the second is that he was a Freemason. [127] The first claim is based almost entirely on his use of certain symbols such as the winged disk that appeared on copies of Studies in the Scriptures and the cross and crown motif that appeared in Watch Tower literature and was often worn by Bible Students as religious ornaments. But instead of being drawn from Egyptian paganism as has been asserted by Russell’s adversaries, the winged disks simply represented “the sun of righteousness” that would “arise with healing in his wings” according to Malachi 4: 2. As for the cross and crown motif, it was simply a common one in the nineteenth and earlier centuries that was used by many Christian groups. Equally specious is the claim that Russell was a Freemason. That is easy to see from comments in which he advised Bible Students against becoming Masons [128] and by his lack of knowledge of the work and rituals of Freemasonry."
Penton, M. James. Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses, Third Edition (p. 64). University of Toronto Press, Scholarly Publishing Division. Kindle Edition.
Footnotes:127 For a prime example of such claims, see Fritz Springmeier, The Watchtower and the Masons (Portland, Oregon: printed privately, 1990).
128 He stated: “We note also the Order of Free Masons, if judged by its past history, has some secret object or scheme, more than fraternity and financial aid in time of sickness or death. And, so far as we can judge, there is a certain amount of profane worship or mummery connected with the rites of this order and some others, which members do not comprehend, but which, in many cases, serves to satisfy the cravings of the natural mind for worship, and thus hinders it from seeking the worship of God in spirit and truth – through Christ, the only appointed Mediator and Grand Master” (WT, reprints 1827).
Penton, M. James. Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses, Third Edition (p. 415). University of Toronto Press, Scholarly Publishing Division. Kindle Edition.
So that is proof enough for me that Russell wasn't a Mason.
However, it is very well known (and public even) that Joseph Smith and many early Mormon leaders were Masons.
My question is, where are the records? I have tried searching everywhere online but cannot find one way to actually prove that Joseph Smith was a Mason.
If anyone knows, that would be really appreciated.Thanks!
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The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity
by ILoveTTATT2 inever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.
while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.
we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.
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ILoveTTATT2
I read about the difference between the Hadith and the Quran. My point still stands. Although the Quran itself does not have a "stone adulterers" text, the Hadith does, and now, comparing again to Christianity:
The Quran is like the New Testament. A lot more "chill" than the Old Testament, but still has horrible things in it.
The Hadith is like the Old Testament. Very horrible things in it.
The problem is that Christianity's holy texts go from VIOLENT to PEACEFUL(ISH). Islamic holy texts go from PEACEFUL(ISH) to VIOLENT.
So it's worse.
Now, I don't support a total ban of Muslims, but I do support heavy vetting. The vetting was already pretty heavy during the Obama administration.
I don't support welcoming hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, without at least making sure that they will respect the laws and the customs of the lands where they go. But, given the fundamental nature of the religion, this is highly unlikely. At some point, they will want to implement their own rules. -
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The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity
by ILoveTTATT2 inever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.
while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.
we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.
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ILoveTTATT2
Rainbow, I need to research what you just said. If true, then that would change my viewpoint completely.
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The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity
by ILoveTTATT2 inever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.
while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.
we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.
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ILoveTTATT2
Ok Perry,
I know you like being apologetic for Christianity, but no. It's got its share of really horrible things. The point is twofold:
1) Christianity has moved on from being horrible, as in the Middle Ages.2) More importantly, IT HAS AN OUT. It doesn't HAVE to follow the Mosaic Law, which is absolutely horrible and at par with the Koran, or possibly worse. Islam doesn't have an "out", unless you consider the interpreters of the law, similar to Jews. Most interpreters of the Jews are extremely liberal, whereas the interpreters of the Muslims aren't.
Islam needs hundreds of years to "grow up". It needs to.