Posts by Pole

25

Demons and Inanimate Objects

by VM44 in

the watchtower has published articles telling people not to shop at thrift stores, salvation army stores, etc, because the items purchased might have demons attached!.

experiences have been published by the wt, and particularly the awake!,where people are reported to have been bothered after bringing the used items home.

to only relief was after the objects were taken out and burned, usually after several attempts when the object would not catch fire!.

I personally like psychogenic explanations of such phenomena: some people have special powers without realizing it. They can move objects around etc. and it's subconscious. But, the more strange things happen around them, the more they believe something evil is going on.

Like OldHippie said Strange things happen.

The problem is that every religion, every culture and many scientists have all their own sometimes mutually exclusive explanations. And they (especially religions) like to use their explanations to influence people. It's funny that 90% of all miracles happen in Latin America.

4

forbidden reading and the wtbs opinion

by candidlynuts in

i distinctly remember how the wtbs used to bash the catholic church for restricting reading material .

and to read something forbidden was a very serious sin.

implied in these comments was that it was wrong of the catholic church.

Pole

This is perhaps even more relevant:

*** w01 12/1 pp. 25-26 Accepting Jehovah?s Invitations Brings Rewards ***

About that time, a woman informed us that the Catholic priests of Itu had forbidden their parishioners to accept copies of ?the red book about the Devil.? They were referring to ?Let God Be True,? the Biblical publication we had been offering people during the week. Since the red book had been ?banned? by the priests, we prepared a presentation for the blue book (?New Heavens and a New Earth?). Later, when the clergy got wind of this change, we moved on to the yellow book (What Has Religion Done for Mankind?), and so on. It was a good thing that we had a variety of books with covers of different colors!

4

forbidden reading and the wtbs opinion

by candidlynuts in

i distinctly remember how the wtbs used to bash the catholic church for restricting reading material .

and to read something forbidden was a very serious sin.

implied in these comments was that it was wrong of the catholic church.

Pole

*** w78 4/15 pp. 6-7 The True Religion?How to Identify It ***

10 When we mention the Bible, is your reaction, ?Well, most all persons who accept the Bible believe, fundamentally, the same thing?? Many feel that way. However, that is definitely not the case. As with the engineer in West Berlin, millions of sincere, intelligent persons who have examined this vital issue of true worship know that there are vast differences between the teachings and the practices of various religions claiming to be based on the Bible. And, frankly, there are also vast differences between most of these religions and the Bible itself. These differences can involve your entire approach to life and religion. As we examine a few basic and vital points, analyze your own religion or beliefs. Ask yourself, ?Am I personally seeking true worship?? And if you see that in some ways your beliefs or practices are at variance with true religion, think seriously about what you will do.

11 The possible need to adjust our beliefs or conduct should not surprise anyone familiar with the Bible. For instance, Jesus Christ said, regarding some very religious persons of his day, ?the worship they offer is worthless; the doctrines they teach are only human regulations.? (Matt. 15:9, JB) Nor is it just a matter of doctrine. Jesus? half brother James wrote: ?Faith is dead if it is separated from good deeds? and ?Nobody must imagine that he is religious while he still goes on deceiving himself and not keeping control over his tongue; anyone who does this has the wrong idea of religion.??Jas. 2:26; 1:26, JB.

*** w89 5/15 pp. 27-28 The Land of the Pepper Bird Hears the ?New Song? ***

Emmanuel adjusted his affairs so that he could care for his large family and share in the full-time pioneer work in Gardnersville. He met Varney and Lucinda and started a home Bible study with them. However, they believed it was a sin for a person to change his religion. Emmanuel showed them what the book Reasoning From the Scriptures says on the subject . They borrowed the book, read other material in it, and started attending Christian meetings. Shortly thereafter, they took up the Christian ministry. Meanwhile, their landlord?a clergyman?noted the change in their conduct and invited them to use his sitting room for their Bible study. After attending a district convention, the landlord was convinced that he had found the truth and requested a Bible study of his own.

*** w82 2/1 pp. 4-5 Modern Christianity?How Much Is Genuine? ***

Today hundreds of millions of people use the Christian ?label? or ?signature.? Maybe you are one of them. But how can you tell if you are a genuine Christian, the real thing? First, check your conduct and beliefs against the Bible record of the teachings of Jesus Christ and his apostles. Next, examine how early Christians applied those teachings. Thirdly, analyze your own form of religion to see if it fits the mold that Christ set. Now ask yourself, Is my religion genuine Christianity? Do I practice it?

*** yb97 pp. 50-51 Africa ***

Stella, a university student in Nigeria, was searching for the truth. After a few years as a Pentecostal, she thought she had found the right religion. She decided to write a book to show that all other religions are false. However, as she made a list of the prominent religions around her, she realized that she did not know much about Jehovah?s Witnesses. ?I?ll attend their meetings for three months to find out about them,? she said to herself. That weekend, she went to a circuit assembly. By the end of the program, she began to have doubts about her own religion. The following week she was at the local Kingdom Hall. She also read as many Witness publications as she could find. After her third meeting, she approached one of the congregation elders and said: ?Brother, baptize me. I am now one of you.? The brother explained that there were things she had to know before she could be baptized. He then gave her a book to study. Stella read it in two days and then went back to the elder and said: ?I have finished the book, brother. Baptize me.? The elder arranged for a sister to study with her, and a few months later, Stella did get baptized.

For those who were born to JW families:

*** g90 3/22 p. 25 Should I Get Baptized? ***

Yes, religion can be a feeble force, indeed, when it has been imposed upon a youth by his parents. A study made of a group of Catholic juvenile delinquents further illustrates this. Half of them attended church. Most knew the basic doctrines of their faith. And almost 90 percent of them did not approve of stealing. Yet, over two thirds were thieves! Observed the book The Adolescent: ?One reason may be that the boys? religious commitment was marginal. All were born Catholics; their initial commitment was made for them by their parents. Their religion was not their own.?

20

Don't Know The Day....Don't Know The Hour.......BUT.......

by GodsMouthpiece in

amos 3:7 does say that the living god will make his impending judgement known to a select few so that they can in turn make a last appeal to those who are reasonable at heart.

daniel chapter 12.....1260+1290+1335= 3885 days/years.

you gotta know which it is, days/years in order to even begin making sense of it.

Pole

NN,

Wow, I didn't know anyone would speak a word in Polish in "Afghanistan"!!!!!!!!!

Unless you're a Polish soldier serving there....:)

Na razie....

28

Was there really a global flood? (new publication reasoning)

by Simon in

the latest "keep on the watch" publication released at the district assembly really looks like a rehash of old material (and even old pictures ... they must be running out of paint or something!)..

one 'gem' caught my eye flicking through it.

how do you reason with people to convince them that the bible account of a global flood is real?.

Pole

patio34,

The phrase:

useless tautology

is a tautology by itself . But it's irrelevant to your argument, I know.

20

Don't Know The Day....Don't Know The Hour.......BUT.......

by GodsMouthpiece in

amos 3:7 does say that the living god will make his impending judgement known to a select few so that they can in turn make a last appeal to those who are reasonable at heart.

daniel chapter 12.....1260+1290+1335= 3885 days/years.

you gotta know which it is, days/years in order to even begin making sense of it.

Pole

Nathan Natas,

Jesus, PLEASE don't let these two mate, or we'll have little freak memes running all over the place!

I'm still a newbie here but these are holy words. I wonder how these guys are planning to communicate their messages to the rest of the world. So far I've thought this forum is probably not the best place to preach the "good news" of this sort! If God wants his chosen people to know - why does he only choose Westerners? BUt now these two guys have started mating (as you call it), so I fully understand your concern

21

1995 no big deal??

by Bubbamar in

when i discovered - only recently - the the masthead of the awake was changed in 1995 to eliminate "our creators promise" i found it apalling.

it was a promise people!!

i am curious, did the wtbts write articles or discuss this radical change or did they just slip it in?

Pole

XQsThaiPoes,

Good analysis. Wrong diagnosis.

You wrote:

Even the need for the preaching work was destroyed.

Not at all. The've only got out of the old excuses. What happens if a witness doesn't sumbit his/her monthly service report? Well, as you know there is a certain policy. The elders come and have a 'friendly conversation'. The other members of the influence exert other forms of influence. I would say preaching has been gaining preposterous dimensions in the org (reports, forms to fill out, applications to become pioneers, fixed numbers of hours...).

The org now is run by inertia.

Wrong wrong wrong. Maybe in a few years' time when the GB in its current form strats disappearing. It's funny, because when I suggested possible inertia in one of the other threads (inertia on different grounds though), you said they have no problem coming up with new excuses and reinterpretations. And their sheep have no problems believing in the new truths. Now you are the dreamer.

It basically turn jws into a normal church.

Getting carried away with wishful thinking? :). This is the impression they want organizations such as the UN, or the European Court of Justice to have.

They say: we respect the UN. They say: UN is the disgusting thing.

They say: We haven't come here to change your religion, sir/madam. They say: Preaching makes no real sense if you don't try to start bible studies and get people baptized.

They say: we repsect you faith and beliefs. They say: unless you become a witness, you'll perish with the rest of the Babilon the Great.

Which part of the story did you mean when you said that the org is being "turned into a normal church"?

Regards,

Pole

11

How to account for the disappearing of the faithful slave class?

by Pole in

the wts managed to smoothly get out of the expectations they raised in connection with the generation 1914 'prophecy'.

i can't remember any jehovah's witnesses complaining about it - not here in poland at least.

they definitely scored a point here in their game of indoctrination.. however they still have a pretty obvious doctrinal problem.

Pole

Considering the anointed are just gardern veriety born again christians, and those are quite common in the world I don't see the problem.

Well, that's clear enough. It's easy to maintain the number of memorial partakers in the region of 8000. They've demonstrated this capability for the last 10 years.

I mean imagine if a bunch of young anointed end up at bethel.

Now, that is exactly what I mean. The GB is a central institution in the org. Imagine you have a friend your age and this friend realizes he is annointed. He ends up as a member of the GB. With time he comes up with new reinterpretations of prophecies, which you have to accept as divinely revealed truth. The clandestine character of the GB is lost for good. YOu know this guy, and so you may have doubts as to why he is so more special than you are.

This would certainly come accross as something against the current system of beliefs especially if new GB member could come from countries like Poland, where Jehovah's Witnesses know close to nothing about the GB.The only info they have is a few pictures + laconic captions which have appeared in some publications. And lots of speculations, which are largely false and which will prove to be false when the old-timers die out.

However it seems the English speaking people are the Jews of the modern days in terms of taking the leading positions in the org. The chosen nation kind of thing. You don't stand a big chance of getting annointed as a Polish or Czech person :)). How can God be so injust?

Ok, I'm not worried. I'm just curious... Even is all they need to do is come up with an well-phrased excuse, it's ironic that we can anticipate it....

Thanks for all of your comments, guys.

Pole

11

How to account for the disappearing of the faithful slave class?

by Pole in

the wts managed to smoothly get out of the expectations they raised in connection with the generation 1914 'prophecy'.

i can't remember any jehovah's witnesses complaining about it - not here in poland at least.

they definitely scored a point here in their game of indoctrination.. however they still have a pretty obvious doctrinal problem.

Pole

I think they can justify it by what they have said recently about some of the Annointed falling away, and being able to be replaced by those who did not see 1914. In that way, they would be able to keep it going for an almost indefinate period of time.

Still, it is going to be a tricky issue in few years' time for the Organization.

It's one thing to just 'realize' that you belong to the annointed class, and quite another thing to realize that you are entitled to join the governing body - having to make up prophecies and rules which can mean life or death for the average witness (blood, 'neutrality', etc.).

And the whole idea of some witnesses suddenly realizing that they are annointed is interesting by itself. The governing body can only be made up of annointed witnesses, right? SO, if those replacements can only be selected from a very small random population of some newly annointed freaks who have just discovered they are 'more equal' than other JW's, then who is going to lead the WTS in the near future? Nobody knows. Not even the GB members themselves.

The hardcore GB members have been securing their position for so many years by claiming the other sheep can't produce spiritual food for themselves. And now the GB has to shoot itself in the foot. The 80+ year old members surely don't care that much. Like Danny said, their time is up, and they know it or at least they feel it. The new ones don't seem to be coming up with new prophecies.

It's an interesting situation, because we (as outsiders) can predict a big wave of 'new light' coming before most JW's even start considering it.

So heed my prophecy: new light is coming

Pole

11

How to account for the disappearing of the faithful slave class?

by Pole in

the wts managed to smoothly get out of the expectations they raised in connection with the generation 1914 'prophecy'.

i can't remember any jehovah's witnesses complaining about it - not here in poland at least.

they definitely scored a point here in their game of indoctrination.. however they still have a pretty obvious doctrinal problem.

Pole

The WTS managed to smoothly get out of the expectations they raised in connection with the generation 1914 'prophecy'. I can't remember any Jehovah's Witnesses complaining about it - not here in Poland at least. They definitely scored a point here in their game of indoctrination.

However they still have a pretty obvious doctrinal problem. Most of the members of the 'faithful and discreet slave' are now growing really old. And more than half of them must be female (judging by the slightly higher life expectancy of women in general). Even fewer are capable of providing 'the spiritual food in proper time' (I mean doctrinal stuff - not just Awake kind of crap which can be contributed by the other sheep).

It is my understanding that only the annointed witnesses can be in the top leading positions in the organization. And the general assumption among Jehovah's Witnesses is that the annointed must be attacked by Gog just before the final battle of Armaggedon.

My question is: How will the WTS account for the vanishing of the fully-qualified slave class? What excuse do you think are they likely to use to explain it to 'the other sheep'? 'The faithful slave is no longer here, but stand firm, and wait for the end. Meanwhile, read new issues of Awake about animal wellfare which can be supplied by 'qualified men' of the other sheep'.

My guess is that new members of the faithful slave will keep cropping up out of the blue - this can relieve the situation for some time. Just look at the following table (Gov Body - I forgot where I got it from - but I think the information here is reliable):

first_name	surname	born	age
Carey W.	Barber	1905	99
Albert D.	Schroeder	1911	93
John E.	Barr	1913	91
Daniel	Sydlik	1919	85
Theodore	Jaracz	1925	79
Guy H.	Pierce	1934	70
Samuel F.	Herd	1935	69
Gerrit	Lösch	1941	63
David H.	Splane	1944	60
M. Stephen	Lett	1949	55

Seems like the last three guys forming the GB are the very remnant of the remnant or something? Do you think this can go on for ever?

What do you think????

Pole