Posts by Pole

31

To All Elders and Bethelites Who Monitor This Site

by metatron in

if you are an elder, a c.o.

or a bethelite and are monitoring this site, please take my advice and grab yourself.

some "protection" while you still can.. look, brother - you may be having doubts about your faith.

Pole

Darn Internet. What can the GB do to stop appeals like the one on this thread? Sooner or later they'll have place more emphasis on banning the Web to a greater extent.

;@)

Pole

234

Intelligent Design

by Delta20 in

hey all,.

i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

Good one, but here we go again. Dead metaphors such as instant don't have a meaning unless we explain them further. Otherwise we are are committing the ignotum per ignotum fallacy - defining one unknown concept with another unknown concept.

If you say "instant" to a learner of English it doesn't mean anything unless you explain the underlying spacial metaphor. So how can the learner of English undertand the meaning of "instant"? Let's see how some dictionary makers make the meaning of this concept clear. I'm not quoting those dictionaries as sources of the only true definitions. I just want to show how people go about defining/understanding "instant":

1 : an infinitesimal space of time; (Webster)

2: an extremely short period of time; a moment (Cambridge)

3: an infinitely short space of time, (OED)

Also, etymologically instant evolved from spacial expressions. This alone doesn't prove that the current understanding is metaphorical, but it's interesting to know.

instant (n.)

1398, "infinitely short space of time," from O.Fr. instant (adj.) "assiduous, at hand," from M.L. instantem (nom. instans ), from L. instantem "present, pressing, urgent," prp. of instare "to urge, to stand near, be present (to urge one's case)," from in- "in" + stare "to stand," from PIE base *sta- "to stand" (see

stet ). Elliptical use of the O.Fr. adj. as a noun. New Latinate adj. form instantaneous is attested from 1651.

Basically, one can only speak or conceive of time in terms of spacial/physical metaphors. This has little to do with the nature of the Universe. This is an inherent cognitive feature of all humans. And it gets manifested in language.

Cheers,

Pole

234

Intelligent Design

by Delta20 in

hey all,.

i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

Pole

D Dog,

They can of course. Linguistically, or should I say, metaphorically. If you were to explain the notion of infinity so that a person who is not familiar with it might grasp it, what would you say? Wouldn't you end up talking about lines, spaces, "points" in time and and distances? And aren't they originally spacial concepts? If you can explain any aspect of time without resorting to a spacial metaphor, I'd be very interested to know. This would prove me wrong as far as what I suggested in the previous post.

Cheers,

Pole

234

Intelligent Design

by Delta20 in

hey all,.

i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

Pole

D Dog,

Thanks for providing another example of what I've just written. Finite and infinite are just two more spacial metaphors.

Pole

234

Intelligent Design

by Delta20 in

hey all,.

i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

Pole

Did it occur to you that "outside" is a spatial concept / metaphor, just as "before" is a temporal one?

Good points Narkissos. Funny how talking and conceiving of the absence of space requires spacial metaphors.

A word of warning folks! Before you start discussing the origins of time and space, or the possibility of existing without them, make sure you have an objective way of discussing time. There are fairly genuine language constructs to describe space, but there aren't any to discuss time.

Taking the point Narkissos brings up, if we want to be more precise we have to admit that even the preposition "before" contains a spacial metaphor (and not an entirely dead one at that!). If wew can hardly discuss time without resorting to spacial metaphors, then where does this discussion about "God" being independent of time and space lead us to? Well, here we go: we're going to need even more spacial metaphors. Once we are using a few dozen of them to eplain our theory of the origins of the Universe, we realize we have constructed another metaphysics. And anything is possible to "verify" in the world of metaphysics. You can come up with new metaphors and "bend them" (another metaphor) to your liking. That's ok as long as you don't call your metaphysics a scientific theory.

This the problem with the Intelligent Design Theory: most of its premises were best refuted as early as 200+ years ago by Hume.

To a superficial observer, so wonderful a regularity may be admired as the effect of either chance or design; but a skillful algebraist immediately concludes it to be the work of necessity. David Hume.

Pole

25

Do you let your dub relatives watch your kids?

by avishai in

jw
friends

this was mentioned on another topic but it needs it's own thread.

ok, i'm gonna say it again.

if your relatives will not speak to you.... do not let them have any contact with your children, period.

Pole

Luckily I'm not going to have this problem. But if my mother was still a believing dub and if she shunned me in any way. Or if she tried to use any form of emotional blackmail to influence my kids I'd follow your advice.

But then, my mother would be a completely different person. :)

Pole

106

Just got back from the 2004-2005 circuit assembly here are a few thoughts.

by PaNiCAtTaCk in

jw
friends

upon arriving i ran into lots of old friends and really enjoyed seeing everyone and visiting.

they dont know that im currently struggling with doubts about the organization and they think that im the same old zealous brother.

i couldnt help but feel a sence of guilt visiting with them about our current number of publishers and how many we had pioneering ect.

Pole

What a pathetic provocation.

"Maybe I have my own doubts also, but I'm grateful for you all to give me a reality check. I can see that this world is only selfish, obscene and full of filth - exactly as prophesized in 2 Tim 3."

This is a "hidden" message for the undecided lurkers. You may have doubts, lurkers, but it's all prophesized.

Pole

5

deutchland uber alles

by kilroy2 in

i read something about the dubbers taking this anthem during the 2nd world war and making it into a dubber song.

it sounds like one i remember as a kid.

any one have any info on it?

Pole

"The words of this song were set to music composed by Joseph Haydn in 1797."

But choosing this song to start a convention in Berlin at that time was a bit wierd.

Pole

5

deutchland uber alles

by kilroy2 in

i read something about the dubbers taking this anthem during the 2nd world war and making it into a dubber song.

it sounds like one i remember as a kid.

any one have any info on it?

Pole

Isn't the melody based on some classical piece (Handel?) perhaps?

Pole

32

Which is worse, Islam or Christendom?

by avengers in

lmfho .

lets first start off with the islam.. supposedly, the great prophet mohammed married a 7 year ol girl, but agreed not to consumate the marriage until she was 9.. (must we conclude that the founder of the islam was a pedophile?

now christendom.. mary conceived a child while virgin.

Pole

LOL at LT of the "Estimating the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow" class