Posts by Terry

15

LET'S HELP JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES TO LOVE APOSTATES

by Terry in

simple application of logic to scripture interpretation:.

if two terms mean the same thing it should not change the meaning to exchange one word for the other.. first, jesus lays the foundation for us.

let us read.. luke 6:27-37 "but i say to you who are listening, continue to love your enemies , to do good to those hating you, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting you.

LET'S HELP JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES TO LOVE APOSTATES

by Terry in

simple application of logic to scripture interpretation:.

if two terms mean the same thing it should not change the meaning to exchange one word for the other.. first, jesus lays the foundation for us.

let us read.. luke 6:27-37 "but i say to you who are listening, continue to love your enemies , to do good to those hating you, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting you.

Terry

Simple application of logic to scripture interpretation:

If two terms mean the same thing it should not change the meaning to exchange one word for the other.

First, Jesus lays the foundation for us. Let us read.

Luke 6:27-37 "But I say to YOU who are listening, Continue to love your enemies , to do good to those hating YOU, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting YOU. To him that strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also, and from him that takes away your outer garment, do not withhold even the undergarment.Give to everyone asking you, and from the one taking your things away do not ask [them] back. Also, just as YOU want men to do to YOU, do the same way to them. And if YOU love those loving YOU, of what credit is it to YOU? For even the sinners love those loving them.And if YOU do good to those doing good to YOU, really of what credit is it to YOU? Even the sinners do the same.Also, if YOU lend [without interest] to those from whom YOU hope to receive, of what credit is it to YOU? Even sinners lend [without interest] to sinners that they may get back as much. To the contrary, continue to love YOUR enemies and to do good and to lend [without interest], not hoping for anything back; and YOUR reward will be great, and YOU will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind toward the unthankful and wicked. Continue becoming merciful , just as YOUR Father is merciful. Moreover, stop judging , and YOU will by no means be judged; and stop condemning , and YOU will by no means be condemned."

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Now, let's agree the Governing Body regards former members, DF'd members and apostates as their ENEMY. Right?

Let's take a look what happens when we substitute APOSTATE, etc. in place of the above terms . . .

____________________________________________________________________________

Luke 6:27-37 "But I say to YOU who are listening, Continue to love APOSTATES , to do good to those APOSTATES , to bless those APOSTATES , to pray for those (APOSTATES) who are insulting YOU. To APOSTATES that strike you on the one cheek, offer the other also, and from him DISFELLOWSHIPPED PERSONS that take away your outer garment, do not withhold even the undergarment. Give to everyone asking you, and from the one taking your things away do not ask [them] back. Also, just as YOU want men to do to YOU, do the same way to them. And if YOU love those loving YOU, of what credit is it to YOU? For even the DF'd love those loving them.And if YOU do good to those doing good to YOU, really of what credit is it to YOU? Even the Ex-JW's do the same. Also, if YOU lend [without interest] to those from whom YOU hope to receive, of what credit is it to YOU? Even faders lend [without interest] to DF'd ones that they may get back as much. To the contrary, continue to love YOUR DISFELLOWSHIPED and to do good and to lend [without interest], not hoping for anything back; and YOUR reward will be great, and YOU will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind toward the unthankful and wicked. Continue becoming merciful , just as YOUR Father is merciful. Moreover, stop judging , and YOU will by no means be judged, and stop condemning , and YOU will by no means be condemned."

____________________________________________________________________________

Do you see anything illogical about the above?

What do you think the chances are any JW would read it that way. . . EVER?

11

Vomit alert - how many Dubs actually like the noolite .tv?

by hamsterbait in

one witless i know actually said "i really like brother lett - his face is soo expressive, the eyebrows go up and he uses his lips to enunciate every word clearly.

and he speaks slowly so it is easy to follow what he is saying.".

another said "iwas so excited after watching the new tv channel.

Terry

I recently watched a documentary which examined the lives of ordinary North Korean citizens.

The naive rapture for their exalted divine leader was heartbreaking to witness.

The camera crew was followed everyplace they went by watchers and listeners appointed by the government

as "minders."

It all came to an end abruptly when one of the camera crew asked a sly question of a group of Koreans

who were rhapsodizing about Kim Jong-un.

"What is your opinion of outside criticism of Kim Jong-un?"

_______________

The blank faces of the crowd of people sent an icy chill down my spine.

THE QUESTION HAD NO MEANING TO THEM BECAUSE CRITICISM AND OPINION DID NOT EXIST!

The entire documentary was stopped and the crew was kicked out of North Korea the next day.

MORAL OF THE STORY:

When a human being loses critical thinking they cannot analyze what is being taught nor

choose a better way for themselves. They can only be loyal and grateful and filled with enthusiasm.

10

"UNTIL he arrives . . ." Why do we still celebrate the Memorial? CAUSES VS. EFFECTS

by Terry in

jehovah's witnesses teach worldwide that jesus arrived in 1874 1914.. i think i must have missed the wt explanation: why do we still celebrate the memorial of jesus if he returned already?.

1 corinthians 11:26 "for as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the lord, until he arrives (erchomai).".

let's break this down.. 1. jesus christ 'returned' arrived in 1914 (cause).. 2.

Terry

Jehovah's Witnesses were built out of the scattered rubble of many ruined 2nd Advent predictions reusing the same stones.

The problem with insisting on contradicting the scripture about "No man knows the day and the hour. . " leads to some

fancy razzle-dazzle footwork.

DOES JESUS COME BACK, RETURN, ARRIVE, or just turn his head and look while remaining in heaven?

This muddle of a doctrine has more patches than a patchwork quilt!

WHAT DOES THE PHRASE: THE RETURN OF CHRIST MEAN?

Where is the actual DEFINITION?

__________________________

Watchtower"definitions" crowd out the defining process diverting attention to indoctrination.

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". . . In the Bible the Greek word er’kho -mai (meaning,“to come”) is also

Used with reference to Jesus’ directing his attention to an important

Task at a specific time during his presence, namely, to his work as

Jehovah’s executioner at the war of the great day of God the Almighty.”

Coming? Presence? Return of Christ? These are tossed in willy-nilly for a reason.

Watchtower teaching requires confusing these terms with their own doctrine of invisible return=2nd coming=1914 followed

by an excuse for JW's to go door to door for an extended period of time, to be followed by Armageddon.

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NOW IT GETS REALLY TRICKY!

Will the Watchtower publication tell us WHERE it is Jesus RETURNS to at his second coming?

Remember, Jesus departed and promised to RETURN. When Jesus departed he was ON THE EARTH.

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RETURN--verb--To come or go back to a place or person

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Throughout the history of Christianity on Earth there has never been any confusion about what the phrase

"The Return of Christ" actually means. But, the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses seek to destroy and replace

the obvious meaning with an unnecessarily complicated teaching. This teaching became complicated for a reason.

1. False date of Christ's return failed to produce the actual return of Christ! First, 1874 and later 1914.

2. To cover up the failure of prediction, a silly"invisible presence" argument was tacked on to save the day.

3. Once the invisible returned Jesus was argued, there had to some reason given for NOTHING HAPPENING beyond the

unrest of WWI. Why did things go back to normal?

4. The preaching work and door to door ministry was invented to fill up the deafening silence and inactivity of a returned King Jesus.

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The entire doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses rests on one tiny point.

JW's must try very, very hard to distort the meaning of 2nd COMING.

The Greek word "parousia" can mean either COMING or ARRIVAL, or PRESENCE depending on the CONTEXT.

Jehovah's Witnesses ignore context and ignore "coming" and insist on PRESENCE to foist the "invisible" rescue argument into it.

Why?

Remember, for Jehovah's Witnesses, if Jesus did NOT return when they PREDICTED IT--they are obviously FALSE PROPHETS.

To avoid being identified as such--they must insist JESUS RETURNED, but the reason you could not see him was (insert invisibility here.)

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Let us ask an important question here.

IN THE DAYS OF NOAH the flood was coming.

When the flood finally arrived (parousia) . . . WAS IT INVISIBLE WATER?

No.

With that understanding in mind, read this:

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MATTHEW 24:39

“And they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood

Came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming

Of the Son of Man.”

_____________________

The Watchtower religion is built entirely on an ERROR in predicting the 2nd COMING.

The doctrines are silly, contradictory, and illogical because they must bend everything to make that work.

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Think of the burden JW's must carry around lugging the heavy anchor of 607 B.C.E when it is easily refuted.

607 "proves" 1914 or it refutes 1914. The Watchtower has to insist, no matter what, this date is true.

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In the Bible, the SIGN of something comes BEFORE the event itself, but using Watchtower style reverse-definition

we find in REASONING FROM THE SCRIPTURES:

“Following Christ’s return, some persons show faith; they recognize the

Sign of his presence. Others reject the evidence, but when Christ goes

into action as God’s executioner of the wicked, even they will discern

From the manifestation of his power that the destruction is not from men

but from heaven. They will know what is happening because they were

Warned in advance. Because of what is overtaking them, they will ‘beat

their selves in grief.’”

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WHY does the Watchtower put the SIGN of Jesus' return AFTER he arrives?

Because they have to cover up the fact JESUS DID NOT return in 1914.

9

Arguably the best debunker on YouTube

by Terry in

this fellow's channel is called watchtower examination.. he is clear, reasonable, thoughtful--but best of all--his teaching method with visuals is perfection!.

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukcep7v1i1o.

Terry

This fellow's channel is called WATCHTOWER EXAMINATION.

He is clear, reasonable, thoughtful--but best of all--his teaching method with visuals is perfection!

Take this one example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukcEP7V1I1o

19

Thank You From Captives of a Concept

by Cameron_Don in

jw
friends

i wanted to thank so many who have taken the time and effort to read and recommend captives of a concept over the past decade.. for those who have not seen it, there is an interview on youtube that may have helped some witnesses begin the process of getting the sense of the way the watchtower religion actually works.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5trkrpia-3q.

don cameron.

.

Terry

How many writers can claim they were instrumental is causing an international corporation to completely shut down a prominent policy?

You knocked the legs out from under 1919's "appointed over all his belongings."

I have a question: Are they about to unplug from 1914?

43

does the wt always carefully phrase sentences so as to never take blame?

by sowhatnow in

im recalling a time when i sat and circled words in a watchtower article, indicating strongly the fact that it is in fact the writters opinion.. however just the suggestion in the sentence these words are ignored.. for example.

it is our understanding.

we believe this to be the case.

Terry

"Who Molds Your Thinking?", The Watchtower, April 1, 1999, page 22, "You have free will. Exercising it, you can choose to respond to Jehovah’s molding influence or deliberately reject it. How much better to listen to Jehovah’s voice instead of arrogantly asserting, 'No one tells me what to do'!"

The Organization can, in one instance say that salvation is a "free gift" of Jehovah's undeserved kindness and then turn around and claim

the same Jehovah has a work schedule which must be followed to earn that same free salvation!

"Righteous requirements", Watchtower, July 1, 1943, pages 204-206, "Jehovah ... has appointed his 'faithful and wise servant, who is his visible mouthpiece ... These expressions of God's will by his King and through his established agency constitute his law or rule of action ... The Lord breaks down our organization instructions further ... He says the requirements for special pioneers shall be 175 hours and 50 back-calls per month ... and for regular pioneers 150 hours ... And for company publishers he says, 'Let us make a quota of 60 hours and 12 back-calls and at least one study a week for each publisher'. These directions come to us from the Lord through his established agency directing what is required of us ... This expression of the Lord's will should be the end of all controversy ... The Lord through his 'faithful and wise servant' now states to us, Let us cover our territory four times in six months. That becomes our organization instructions and has the same binding force on us that his statement to the Logos had when he said, 'Let us make man in our image'. It is our duty to accept this additional instruction and obey it."

10

"UNTIL he arrives . . ." Why do we still celebrate the Memorial? CAUSES VS. EFFECTS

by Terry in

jehovah's witnesses teach worldwide that jesus arrived in 1874 1914.. i think i must have missed the wt explanation: why do we still celebrate the memorial of jesus if he returned already?.

1 corinthians 11:26 "for as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the lord, until he arrives (erchomai).".

let's break this down.. 1. jesus christ 'returned' arrived in 1914 (cause).. 2.

Terry

Jehovah's Witnesses teach worldwide that Jesus arrived in 1874 1914.

I think I must have MISSED the WT explanation: WHY do we still celebrate the Memorial of Jesus if he RETURNED already?

1 Corinthians 11:26 "For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives (erchomai)."

___________________________

Let's break this down.

1. Jesus Christ 'returned' arrived in 1914 (CAUSE).

2. (EFFECT) Celebrating the memorial of Jesus' death is no longer necessary.

3. (CAUSE) Upon the return arrival of the Master (King Jesus) the faithful and discreet slave will be appointed over all HIS belongings. (EFFECT.)

Matthew 24: 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

4. Jehovah's Witnesses CONTINUE celebrating the Memorial.

5. The FDS claims they have NOT been appointed over all the Master's belongings.

CONCLUSION:

Is the Society laying the groundwork for the revoking of 1914 as the 2nd Coming/Return/Arrival?

___________________________________HOW CAN THEY HAVE THE CAUSE WITHOUT THE EFFECT?_____________________________

1

IS YOUR CUP OF GOD . . . Half FULL . . . or . . . Half EMPTY?

by Terry in

overheard:.

"is your cup half full or half empty?".

they cannot live a good life with others because of "beliefs" and "truth".. instead, they are square pegs left out of round holes.

Terry

Overheard:

"Is your cup half full or half empty?"

"Well, depends on whether you just poured something out or poured something in."

________________________

This might be a clue to an important principle.

The effectiveness of one's beliefs.

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There are people of faith who view Christianity only as a crown of thorns to be borne in misery and self-chastisement.

Proving endurance is their purpose like monks who dwell in damp and drafty cells submitting to scourging with a whip!

Faith is seen as a crucible.

_____________________

Duty does not bring joy if our life consists of some program running in our head.

When it comes to family, spouse, children, work, health: there are programs running.

Living a full, joyful, practical life comes from personal expressions of our happiness--not in mere dictated behavior.

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Dissonance is a clue to dysfunction in our CUP of GOD

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What we believe often differs a great deal from how we behave.

"I shouldn't eat this dessert...."

"I really don't need to be spending money on this right now...."

"I ought to go get a check-up but..."

BELIEF is totally worthless unless there is integrity connected to the behavior which follows.

The evil of the Jehovah's Witness lifestyle is the awful disparity between all that talk about TRUTH and the bland, burdensome lives they lead!

UNCHARITABLE, burdensome lives they lead!

The promises given to newly baptized converts is: their lives will take on purpose leading to personal fulfillment.

The dismal reality: life will consist of an endless list of WHAT they must do next. They will be straitjacketed with duty, repression, forced activity, monitoring and precious little downtime for relaxation and recharging.

They will be straitjacketed with duty, repression, forced activity, surveillance, and precious little relaxation for recharging.

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The JW lifestyle will drain away their finances, their leisure, their education and their social identity. It will subject their children to deprivations as they give up one thing after another which

It will subject their children to deprivations as they give up one thing after another which would have made them fully functioning members of their neighborhood, school, and community. Instead, they are square pegs left out of round holes. The family of humanity is denied to them! Why? They cannot live a good life with others because of "beliefs" and "truth".

Instead, they are square pegs left out of round holes. The family of humanity is denied to them! Why? They cannot live a good life with others because of "beliefs" and "truth".

A satisfying role in the family of humanity is denied to them! Why? They cannot live a good life with others because of "beliefs" and "truth".

Why? They cannot live a good life with others because of. . . ? BEING HUMAN IS DISALLOWED!

What is wrong with this picture???

A JW lives as a public spectacle of holier-than-thou perfection and obsessive focus on WHAT MUST BE DONE to please Jehovah.

The sorrow and the pity of RELIGIOUS BELIEFS comes when the believer makes a fetish out of arguing over them--instead of--practising

goodness, kindness, self-control, and benevolence!

This leads to splits, shifts, divisions, sects and denominations.

When you look at 'CHRISTIANITY' you are not looking at unity of agreement. No, no no. 40,000 DENOMINATIONS do not come from

agreement!

In colonial times, you could be hanged if you didn't attend church services on Sunday! Can't argue with that one can you? Nope. It was time to move to another location and start your own congregation where staying home on Sunday didn't carry with it the death penalty!

Nope. It was time to move to another location and start your own congregation where staying home on Sunday didn't carry with it the death penalty!

What is the source of controversy? Is it a supernatural bad guy? Satan?

Or is it something very simple and human? Like what? Like trying to make rational sense out of meaningless and random nonsense.

By the year of the Council of Nicea, 325 A.D. the heads of congregations all over the Roman Empire met together and compared scars, wounds, and arguments for the purpose of agreeing on something unifying. Eusebius makes it quite clear in his history of that meeting how much dissent, disagreement, the violent controversy and utter disparity was already rife in "Christianity."

That was 2,000 + years ago! It hasn't changed since the Reformation for Christians.

The Enlightenment of the Renaissance at least provided an alternate path for an intelligent person of inquiry: SCIENCE, art, literature, technology.

There is not now and there NEVER HAS BEEN one thing called "TRUE" Christianity.

Before you shout, 'NO!' hear me out. There is a difference distinct from "True" and that is the "claim" of Truth.

Christianity is a kaleidoscope of opinions and practices.

SO WHY MAKE A FETISH out of arguments?

HOW YOU TREAT PEOPLE demonstrates who you are more than all the beliefs and truth that ever existed!

For 2,000 years the only universal Christian church tortured those who dissented and often put them to death.

Try this test: when you think of Jesus Christ do you think of the way he treated people or all the mysterious things he taught?

If you love him is it for his intellectual grasp of hidden truth--or is it because he healed the blind and made the crippled walk?

That should tell you a great deal about yourself and your grasp of HOW instead of WHAT makes all the difference in the world.

It is not 'what' you think--but HOW you treat others as a result which tells the tale and answers the question:

IS YOUR CUP OF GOD HALF FULL or HALF EMPTY?

8

APRIL= MEMORIAL = Time to review the "Mystery Doctrine" secrets

by Terry in

april is memorial month, and a great time to learn about the watch tower mystery doctrine.. .

several former members of the wts have written about a secret teaching called the "mystery doctrine" about the anointed as the christ.. this doctrine, which has never been discussed publically since the death of jf rutherford, but which, equally, has not been repudiated either, teaches that the word "christ" refers to a person, the one we know as jesus, but the expression "the christ" has been invested with a separate, deeper meaning.

it refers to the "christ class" those making up the 144,000 plus jesus .. writing in his book, "apocalypse delayed" penton tells us:.

Terry

I'm borrowing this image from Don'tCallMeShirley because it fits this topic perfectly: