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Posts by Terry
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31Astounding! How much do you REALLY know the history of the Jehovah's Witnesses? I bet you DID NOT know about this!
by park ave boy inquick background.
a few days ago someone brought up an old new york newspaper called the "brooklyn eagle.
" during lunch i had a little time to do some research about the whole jw.borg and what i found almost knocked me out of my seat.
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31
Astounding! How much do you REALLY know the history of the Jehovah's Witnesses? I bet you DID NOT know about this!
by park ave boy inquick background.
a few days ago someone brought up an old new york newspaper called the "brooklyn eagle.
" during lunch i had a little time to do some research about the whole jw.borg and what i found almost knocked me out of my seat.
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Terry
MIRACLE WHEAT: the complete story (from Bible Students blog)
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Excerpt:
THE CASE BRIEFLY REVIEWED
Below is the article from:
The Watch Tower, February, 15, 1913, page 62"I am interested in everything progressive and tending to prove that we are entering the great Thousand Years of earth’s blessings under Messiah. In the columns of THE WATCH TOWER I have noted the coming of Divine blessings in fulfilment of the prediction that “The wilderness shall blossom as the rose,” “The earth shall yield her increase,” etc. Five years ago we quoted in THE WATCHTOWER columns reports respecting “Miracle Wheat.” We gave the name and address (Mr. Stoner) of the farmer who discovered this new wheat and his reports of its remarkable qualities. We published also the report of Mr. Miller, the Government expert, who thoroughly investigated it and pronounced upon its superior qualities.
Some of our readers purchased seed from Mr. Stoner at $1.25 per pound and approved it. In 1910 one of the friends of our Society, who had raised some of this wheat, sold it for seed at $1.00 per pound, and donated the proceeds to our Society. In 1911 the same friend, having raised more seed, asked that THE WATCH TOWER give the benefit of this to its readers at $1.00 a pound post-paid, and appropriate the net results to the furtherance of its work. Another friend, who had some of the same seed, also donated similarly, the total amount being twenty bushels.
For the accommodation of our readers, we allowed this seed-wheat to be put up in pound packages and mailed from THE WATCH TOWER Office, just as the U.S. Government handles such seeds at Washington. We did the business at the request of others and in their interest, and credited them on our books with the results, setting aside to them proportionately voting shares in our Society. We made no claim for the wheat on our own knowledge. We merely gave the report of the Government expert, of the originator, and of our friends who had tried the wheat. We merely acted as intermediary.
Nevertheless, everything that was said respecting the wheat was fully proven at this trial by expert witnesses, interested and disinterested, and their testimony was not shaken. It was also shown that farmer Stoner and his business partner, Mr. Knight, made no sales of this wheat under $1.25 per pound until September, 1911; and that they had a written contract between them that none of the wheat was to be sold at any price until the following year — 1912. Suddenly in September, 1911, they changed their plans, considering that they had wheat enough accumulated, put the price down to $5.00 per bushel, about the time that THE WATCH TOWER wheat was all sold at a dollar a pound. This The Eagle’s attorney claimed was proof of fraud on the part of THE WATCH TOWER — sufficient excuse for the slanderous assaults of The Eagle upon me.
It was in vain that my attorney sought to show the Jury The Eagle’s malice — that it really was attacking me along religious grounds; that it had set itself as the champion of certain clerical enemies of mine, and was seeking to destroy my influence and, if possible, to drive me from Brooklyn. In the court-room sat about twenty-five of my friends, who had come long distances at their own expense to have an opportunity to speak a word in my behalf. Through some intricacies of the Law respecting evidence, these were unable to be heard in my behalf.
Instead, the Law gave The Eagle’s attorney the privilege of saying all manner of evil against me falsely — for the sake of the Doctrines of Christ, which I hold and teach. He was allowed to picture me, as The Eagle had done in its cartoon — as a thief and robber, masquerading in the garb of a minister of Christ. He was allowed to ridicule the “Miracle Wheat,” although I had nothing whatever to do with it, nor with the naming of it; and notwithstanding the fact that its superiority was proven.
He was allowed to inveigh against the fact as criminal, that I hold the office of President of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, and to claim that I hold the office in some corrupt or unlawful manner, and that I misuse the Society’s income in some unexplained way to my own advantage. Meantime, scores present in the courtroom and thousands all over the land, would have been glad to testify that their donations have come to the Society because they have the utmost confidence in my integrity and management of its affairs as its Executive Officer, and that had anybody else been President their donations would have been smaller or none at all.
Presumably because there were seven Catholics on the Jury, The Eagle’s attorney was prompted to refer to the Sisters of Charity and their noble work as nurses in the hospitals, without referring to the fact that those nurses are well paid, and that the hospitals in large measure are supported by State taxation.
The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society was held up to scorn because it did not have any hospital work nor draw any revenue from taxation, and because the female members of the Society do not visit the workshops of the land weekly or monthly on pay-day, and exact donations to its work. Our society was held up to scorn also because we do not send a wagon around the city collecting groceries and provisions for the up-keep of our work; because we do not take up collections even on Sunday; because we have never solicited a penny or a dollar from anybody; and because we never have fairs, grab-bags, “chances” or “raffles.” Our Society was held up to scorn and ridicule because it offers its literature free to the poor, while other similar Societies charge both rich and poor for their tracts and other publications. The Eagle was pictured by its attorney as a dove, a bird of Paradise. For defending it the Protestants on the Jury were led to hope for escape from eternal torment through “the pearly gates” of heaven, welcomed with the words, “Well done!” for giving The Eagle the verdict. Neither I nor my attorneys could offer such inducements conscientiously."
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A Separate Identity: Organizational Identity Among Readers of Zion’s Watch ... By B. W. Schulz
by Terry inenter:.
https://books.google.com/books.
a separate identity: organizational identity among readers of zion’s watch .
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Terry
I can't make my mind up as to whether Russell was an intellectual or an obsessive-compulsive with delusions of grandeur. Of course, those aren't the only two possibilities :)
I'm no clinician, but there is something compulsive at the root of such a mountain of writings as Russell generated over his lifetime.
How much did he write?
In my book, The Monorails of Mars, I include this passage:
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"By now Russell’s ministry totaled some 50,000 printed pages, and nearly 20 million copies of his books which had been distributed worldwide. His sermons were printed daily in thousands of newspapers, and his public sermons drew standing-room-only crowds."
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The "Wound" may soon be healed? (The split between Orthodox and Catholic)
by Terry inthe proper term is "schism.".
defined: the formal separation of a church into two churches or the secession of a group owing to doctrinal and other differences.. ___________________think: gb vs apostates___________.
in 1054, the only true universal christian church (in their opinion, of course) began a serious dispute with hard feelings on both sides which eventually resulted in a split because of geographic location, disputes on doctrine, and authority issues.. to put it in jw terms, they disfellowshipped each other's leaders and representatives, back and forth over many years.
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Terry
The proper term is "schism."
Defined: the formal separation of a church into two churches or the secession of a group owing to doctrinal and other differences.
___________________Think: GB vs Apostates___________
In 1054, the only true Universal Christian Church (in their opinion, of course) began a serious dispute with hard feelings on both sides which eventually resulted in a split because of geographic LOCATION, disputes on DOCTRINE, and AUTHORITY issues.
To put it in JW terms, they disfellowshipped each other's leaders and representatives, back and forth over many years.
Technically speaking, an argument can be made there was no institutional schism, only personal vendettas and petty retaliations.
________________I won't go into all the details because, if you're interested, you can find them and read them elsewhere.
I sought the Catholic version of events:
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/eastern-orthodoxy
Then, I let the Orthodox side tell me their side of things:
https://oca.org/questions/romancatholicism/validity-of-roman-catholic-orders
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Suffice it to say, the Orthodox "Patriarch" and the Latin "Pope", both are words for Papa or Big Church Daddy, often got on each other's last nerve.
The schism sort of officially came only 60 years before the Protestant Reformation.
_______________________________________________Where does this leave us?
The Eastern Orthodox version of Christianity with its Patriarch was constantly battling with the Muslims and later the Czar of Russia until it fragmented along National lines.
Latin Catholics with their Pope, battled with Protestants.
Bottom line?
The Orthodox Church has 11 versions of the "Truth."
Latin Catholics split into Protestants (apostate Catholics) with thousands of splinter denominations vs. Papal-loyal loyalists.
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Are you still with me? Okay, let's continue. . .
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What are the points of contention between these groups, generally speaking?
1. Orthodox say Holy Spirit comes directly from the FATHER.
2. Catholics believe Holy Spirit comes from Father and Son
3. Orthodox say ONLY the first 7 councils were valid in creating and affirming true doctrine.
4. Catholics say the first 7 PLUS all the subsequent ones are equally binding.
5. Orthodox say the Pope is only the 1st among MANY true church leaders and not the sole authority with infallibility.
6. Catholics claim Peter was singled out as the 1st singular leader in charge of Heaven and Hell, but disciples had lesser roles to carry out.
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In 1965, the respective leaders of Orthodox and Catholic LIFTED the EXCOMMUNICATIONS (or, in JW terms, "Reinstated") each other.
This didn't amount to much more than window-dressing, however.
Yesterday, in Havana, the two leaders (Pope and Patriarch) sought to amend the ideological rift to mutual advantage.
What do they have to fight over now?
"Catholic clergy are celibate while Eastern or Orthodox clergy are allowed to marry. The churches also differ in the practice of the eucharist or communion ritual. The Roman Catholic Church uses unleavened bread for the communion host, while the Orthodox churches use leavened bread." (NPR http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/02/12/466395400/will-cuba-meeting-of-pope-and-patriarch-help-heal-a-1-000-year-rift)
WHAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE?Obviously, to be a meaningful healing of the "wound," there would need to be a sharing of authority. This is the rough equivalent of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses meeting with a designated leader of Apostates and trying to find a way to mend fences.
IN OTHER WORDS: THERE IS NO WAY IT CAN HAPPEN!
Why would such an event take place in the first place?
I would offer only one explanation: "It makes both sides look like they are willing to forgive and forget--and this only for public consumption."
Importantly too, "The Catholic side wants to appear inclusive and Christ-like, while the Orthodox do not wish to appear to be insubordinate and entrenched, or petty."The Pope doesn't want to be seen as a bully, the Patriarch wants to be seen standing beside the most powerful religious leader on Earth to elevate his status in the eyes of others.
When an aggrieved JW writes a letter to Headquarters or places a phone call, there is a public relations aspect to the protocol. Headquarters must APPEAR to be humble, willing to listen, reasonable, and even-tempered in addressing concerns.Would the Governing Body bend to the requests of the Royal Commission?
Not really--they only want to appear to be willing and reasonable. No genuine changes are possible due to all vested interests in WHO IS IN CHARGE and WHO WEILDS AUTHORITY.
That is the bottom line, imho.
I'd like to hear your views.
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Overlapping Generation
by pandorasbox1914 inthe september 2015 broadcast had david splane explain matthew 24:34 “truly, i say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place”.
his explanation of this scripture was by means of a chart to indicate an overlapping generation.. .
no scripture was used to show the overlapping generation concept, and as a result it makes no sense.. to illustrate how crazy this concept is, look at the lyrics of the song my generation.. my generation.
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Terry
In the 19th century, after the Civil War, so many members of the same Protestant religious denominations had killed so many of their own Brethren, there was a deep scar in the American psyche. A longing for God to put an end to human strife overswept the religiously naive.
A crackpot solution appeared and caught fire among certain denominations: Predicting the Return of Christ by organizing "signs" and using scriptures to approximate (with exaggerated claims of accuracy) time periods, seasons, epochs and DISPENSATIONS.
Ever heard the old expression, "Figures don't lie but liars figure"?Enter our hero: Charles Taze Russell!
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Russell took the buffet luncheon style approach to religious belief; a little from here, a little from there, and he put it all in a blender and combined it with pyramidology and SYSTEMIZED the presentation.
Pastor Russell simplified Aquinas' approach with TOPICAL chapters in his STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES.
A logical presentation of bullshit, pyramid inches, dispensations, signs, dates and such dazzled the hell out of naive folks and impressed upon their minds TIME IS SHORT!SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY is logical, precise, detailed, formal and rigorous, but the Jehovah's Witness version is sloppy, whimsical, ambivalent, pretentious, and absolutely certain of itself--even when it backflips over itself!
Take a look for yourself.
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Bible's definition of a Generation70 (10 X 7) generations being listed in Genesis, chapter 10, as springing from Noah and his sons.
40 years: (Numbers 32:11-13) Jehovah's anger blazed against Israel and he made them wander in the wilderness for 40 years, until all the generation that was doing evil in the eyes of Jehovah came to its end.
38 years: Deut 2:14 - And the days that we walked from Ka'desh-bar'ne·a until we crossed the torrent valley of Ze'red were thirty-eight years, until all the generation of the men of war had come to their end.
35 years: (Job 42:16, 17) "And Job continued living after this a hundred and forty years and came to see his sons and his grandsons—four generations.
37 years: Jerusalem was destroyed about 37 years later when Jesus said "this generation will by no means pass away"
(Mt 1:17) "All the generations, then, from Abraham until David were fourteen generations, and from David until the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon until the Christ fourteen generations". Reading the list in Matthew, none of them are described as overlapping:
65 years - Abraham to David : 2018BCE -> 1107BCE / 14 generations = 65 years
35 years - David to deportation : 1107BCE -> 607BCE / 14 generations = 35 years
___CONCLUSION___
JW Chronology is a false premise because it assumes a false idea to be a true idea. Namely, JW's channel correct information, dates, conclusions, and interpreations based on the Scriptures and that the Scriptures are harmonious.
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A Separate Identity: Organizational Identity Among Readers of Zion’s Watch ... By B. W. Schulz
by Terry inenter:.
https://books.google.com/books.
a separate identity: organizational identity among readers of zion’s watch .
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Terry
Enter:
https://books.google.com/books
followed by
A Separate Identity: Organizational Identity Among Readers of Zion’s Watch
You can preview what appears to be a remarkable book.
The painstaking detail in the research helps fill in some badly needed facts
surrounding the early years of C.T.Russell which I've found quite revelatory in understanding how Christians of a certain bent became obsessed with End Times is a wide variety of methodologies, heuristics, and do-it-yourself investigations based on seat-of-the-pants chronology and Ad Hoc guesswork.
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EX J-DUB TRIVIA (TRY it and see how many you can get correctly)
by Terry intrivia quiz for ex-jw's.
1.who was the first president of the watchtower bible and tract society.. 2.when was the watch tower association first formed.
(what year?).
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Terry
It is deuce difficult to sort out which references are reliable and which are simply opinions.
Anybody have a *heuristic?
( *any approach to problem solving, learning, or discovery that employs a practical method not guaranteed to be optimal or perfect, but sufficient for the immediate goals.)
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EX J-DUB TRIVIA (TRY it and see how many you can get correctly)
by Terry intrivia quiz for ex-jw's.
1.who was the first president of the watchtower bible and tract society.. 2.when was the watch tower association first formed.
(what year?).
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Terry
OLD GOAT:
Thank you! Duly noted and appreciated! -
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EX J-DUB TRIVIA (TRY it and see how many you can get correctly)
by Terry intrivia quiz for ex-jw's.
1.who was the first president of the watchtower bible and tract society.. 2.when was the watch tower association first formed.
(what year?).
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9
EX J-DUB TRIVIA (TRY it and see how many you can get correctly)
by Terry intrivia quiz for ex-jw's.
1.who was the first president of the watchtower bible and tract society.. 2.when was the watch tower association first formed.
(what year?).
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Terry
Trivia Quiz for Ex-JW's
1.Who was the first President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
2.When was the Watch Tower Association first formed. (What year?)
3.Who was the first Vice-President of the Society and who was the secretary-treasure?
4.When did Fred Franz join the editorial staff as a Bible "researcher" and writer for the Society's publications?
5.Who won the Olin R.Moyle lawsuit against 12 Watchtower executives in 1943 and what $$ was awarded?
6.Who exactly WAS Olin R. Moyle?
7.What was the cause of Rutherford's anger at Olin Moyle leading to firing and libeling him?
8. True or False: J.F.Rutherford refused to compromise his integrity when passages from the Finished Mystery book were found to be in violation of the Espionage Act and would not censor any part of the book or stop the distribution and this landed him in prison.
9. C.T. Russell and his wife, Maria were divorced because Maria would not render her proper marriage "due" by having sex: True or False.
*1. William H. Conley, an Allegheny, Pennsylvania banker
*2. 1881
*3. C.T.Russell's father, Joseph was Vice-President and C.T.Russell himself was secretary-treasurer (Note: each man purchased shares. Conley purchased +/- 350 shares, Joseph Lytel Russell purchased 100 shares and C.T. Russell purchased 50 shares; each at $10 apiece. (Roughly equivalent to $100 per share in current dollar values.)
*4.1926. Barbara Anderson discovered letters at the Brooklyn headquarters demonstrating that Franz wrote Rutherford's "answers" to bible questions and probably wrote his books as well while Rutherford took the writing credit.
*5.Moyle won his lawsuit and the court awarded him $30,000 in damages. (at least the equivalent of a 1/4 of a million in today's value.)
*6. Olin Moyle was the Watchtower Soceity's attorney representing the Society in the 1940 flag salute case in public schools. Rutherford ousted him to install his own choice, Hayden C. Covington.
*7.
According to the trial transcript, Moyle’s problems began after he wrote a personal letter to Rutherford in which he expressed his aversion to Rutherford’s excessive drinking and extremely abusive behavior to others, behavior which he personally observed and heard complaints about. And Arthur Worsley, a long-time Bethel staff member well-known to Kelly and Reusch, was one of the people who complained to Moyle about the indignities heaped upon him by Rutherford. Rutherford was so incensed by Moyle’s criticisms he dismissed Moyle and his wife from Bethel and placed their personal effects out on the sidewalk. Moyle was shocked by the treatment but the facts show he did not retaliate in any way. Not content with throwing Moyle out of Bethel, Rutherford and his associates viciously maligned the man’s character in the Watchtower magazine, leading Moyle to file a libel complaint against all parties responsible.
*9.False! Rutherford excised the offending passages and also stopped distribution to mollify the authorities.
*10. False! Not only would Russell never have sex with Maria; he improperly entered into "affectionate" relationship with a young woman who lived with them.
