Terry

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Posts by Terry

• 
  53

  Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lhcparuzpc

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  Terry

  I said I would NOT post this until I saw it on DRUDGE REPORT.

  Well, I just saw it.

  
  

  http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/prince-dead-aids-cause-of-death/
  
• 
  53

  Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lhcparuzpc

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• 

  Terry

  sir827 hours ago

  How did Michael Jackson get away with NOT being Disfellowshipped?

  MJ was DF'ed in the 80's. Or disassociated. Either way, he was (or should have been) shunned by JWs.
  _______________
  
  I have tried to find some kind of citation for the DF claim and have come up short. Do you have anything you could share?
  
  
  
  Here is a pretty complete article:

  http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/michael-jackson-jehovah.php
  
• 
  53

  Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lhcparuzpc

  1. 
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• 

  Terry

  I found this concerning Michael Jackson and Jehovah's Witnesses:
  
  His make up artist for 30 years Karen Faye wrote on her blog:
  
  "When Michael arrived for his photo shoot for THRILLER, two men accompanied him impeccably dressed in suits, who sat over to the side on some cushy couches and watched his every move.
  
  Since this was the first time I worked with him, it didn’t feel appropriate for me to ask who they could possibly be. I thought if he wanted us to know, he would have told us. I just felt their presence throughout the entire day. They left with him as mysteriously as they had entered with him. At the time I really did not give it another thought, because I had no idea of the adventure that was ahead of me.
  
  The next shoot, there again…a mysterious gentleman, sitting in the background.
  
  As our working relationship and friendship began to grow, I asked. He explained to me he was a Jehovah’s Witness. He was very active with the church, and these gentlemen were monitors. They watched over him. He also explained he went to bible study, and spent time going door-to-door teaching the word each week. I had to take pause for a minute and think about that one….
  
  THRILLER had been released by the time he was explaining this to me. “You mean to tell me, that you ring someone’s doorbell, they come to answer it, and there stands Michael Jackson??????” He gave me one of his hi pitched belly laughs…and said, “yeah”. He further explained that he does it in disguise.
  
  “Oh no you don’t.”
  
  Still giggling, he paused and got amusingly serious. “Yeah, sure. After they let me in, they usually begin to look at me funny, so I end up admitting who I am.”
  
  “Wow, I wish I could be a fly on the wall and watch that. I still can’t believe you do that.” I said.
  
  “It is a big part of being a Jehovah’s Witness. We also do not celebrate holidays or birthdays. We believe that we should honor and celebrate these things daily, and not have just one day.”
  
  So I asked “No birthdays. No Christmas?”
  
  “No” he replied.
  
  “Isn’t that difficult, when the world around you is decorating and singing carols?”.
  
  “Yes, Turkle…it is always kind of sad, especially when I was a child, because it looked like so much fun. But it is okay; we have things like FAMILY DAY, where we all get together. There are hundreds of Jackson’s and we all try and be there.”
  
  I could genuinely see the sadness in his eyes and the sense his feeling of loss, not celebrating Christmas with the other kids…so I changed the subject.
  
  One August 29th, we ended up working. Everyone was wishing him Happy Birthday and giving him little presents. He smiled and graciously accepted them. Once we were in the privacy of the trailer, he put the gifts down on the seat, and looked down at them.
  
  “I wish people wouldn’t do that. Please promise me, Turkle, don’t EVER say Happy Birthday to me.”
  
  We were shooting SMOOTH CRIMINAL. I was accustomed to the monitors by now. The filming was going on longer than planned, as usual. We were preparing for a very big scene. Michael was surrounded by the alien battalion in a gully, built on stage 14.
  
  The special weapons and ammunition team had briefed Michael on how to hold the machine gun and fire it. It was the last scene of the evening. Michael was having fun with it, like a little boy playing army. He took a strong stance, and fired as the cameras rolled.
  
  That was a wrap for that evening, and we were given our call time for the next morning.
  
  Michael was a little late arriving the next day. I was waiting in his trailer. He walked in so distraught. I didn’t understand, we were having so much fun the night before. He was silent as he sat in the makeup chair. I had to ask him please tell me. Please tell me what is wrong.
  
  His eyes welled up with tears. “Mother called last night. The church called her, and told her that I held and fired a gun yesterday. They ordered that I have to make decision. I must leave the church, or leave the entertainment industry.” He was weeping as he uttered those words.
  
  I was quite mortified. “What did your mother advise you to do?”
  
  “She felt horrible. She told me it was up to me. She said she would stand by me with whatever I decided.”
  
  “I see, you are here today”.
  
  “Yes”
  
  “Mother is supporting my choice”.
  
  It took a while for Michael to adjust to his choice. He continued to feel uncomfortable with his birthday, but attended fan events in his honor, and truly enjoyed them.
  
  When I was around him during Christmas, he would hide in his own closet to secretly wrap presents. He still held a tinge of guilt. I knew it was difficult for him, but I know he loved all the decorations that NEVER came down. He could freely give his children the birthdays that he never had. I knew deep down inside the Jehovah Witness teachings continued to hold a sacred place inside of him. That is why I was forever torn by not saying “Happy Birthday”. He never released me from my promise to not say it to him."
  
• 
  6

  PRINCE's Playlist (Only for the curious)

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm so old, i can remember when these things were called mix tapes!https://drive.google.com/folderview?.

  i've compiled the above into .mp3 below:.

  id=0b6a8sp5_psf-mfrys0lxcvracwm&usp=sharing.

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• 

  Terry

  Thanks, Talesin.
  My problem was that I was JW and a Nerd who never went to parties (except JW parties back in the day when such things existed.)
  Even after leaving the Dubs, I never went to clubs or parties or bars.

  Pop music didn't appeal to me.
  Now that I am older, what Pop music represents to me is that "other" life I never led, or poetically: The Road Not Taken.

  I can wax nostalgic when I listen to pop songs because they were everybody else's roadmap in their youth but I never formed emotional connections.

  I listened to the entire Playlist, however. I downloaded every one of those files.
  ____________
  

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-TkkycGhYMm5NNG8/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-TWk2dDRDc2ZqQWc/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-LU5FQVNuMFdwT2s/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-ZnpoTEM1TEM1dFU/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-UTBWaWVXWHZkX3c/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-WXlydDRxb2E2QnM/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-aVhDc2VMUHc3MGM/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-MFc1SzF1Yjh2NVk/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-Zl9xelIxRXJuYTg/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-S19MM0h0M3l0bFU/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-cUVmXzZUeUNBRFU/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-aXFZVTRyX25iaGc/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-bDJVamJfRXl5Ukk/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-R19lWVRJS3NVVHc/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-bUZNX3JzUU5CaFU/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-N2YtbWh0WEVWckU/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-c2gxZVV3UV9BVWM/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-RXRfUkotMkNoTXM/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-OE82Z0ZMenNCUDQ/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-S3VXVDRRT0R6bkE/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-bTFnVVhyNDR2djA/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-VEZTdmx1TlhGdUk/view?usp=sharing

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a8Sp5_PSf-d2FGZlpjdEhPTFE/view?usp=sharing
• 
  53

  Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lhcparuzpc

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  Terry

  What if [and you don't know this] he himself did not see himself as the Celebrity JW ?
  ___________
  
  Two things we should be able to agree upon:
  1. Prince was a Jehovah's Witness

  2. Prince was a celebrity

  If we are in agreement on those two things, does it really matter how Prince saw himself IF it was at odds with these two facts?

  ____________________

  Maybe somewhere in his humanness he really was fighting his own demons?

  _____________
  
  The most obvious struggle Jehovah's Witnesses have is between their humanity and the control exerted by the Watchtower Society.
  Prince was a creative, sexually liberated human straddling the judgmental oversight of fellow JW's and the expectations of his fans.
  As we all know, cognitive dissonance allows people like Prince to hold two contradictory sets of ideas and pretend they can live with them.
  ___________________________
  
  He too was just a victim of victims - maybe he desired an escape ?
  __________________________ 
  A rich man with a mind is a victim?
  He is just as accountable as the rest of us, except he has money and privilege which makes life a lot easier if you ask me.
  Prince pretty much got away with being a celebrity JW, didn't he?

  He was untouchable because of the Governing Body's horror of bad publicity. If Prince desired "escape" all he had to do was publicly announce he wanted to leave and the GB would be powerless to stop him.
  ___________________

  You have let me down on this one !
  ___________________
  
  Why? Because you don't like the title of this topic? I don't understand your objection. I let the video speak for itself.

  How did Michael Jackson get away with NOT being Disfellowshipped?

  How did Prince?

  The sort of people celebrity JW's turn out to be is not infrequently:
  Nutty, eccentric, narcissist, and privileged. They are rich because their fans admire what they do and that is how Capitalism rewards them.
  The GB doesn't hold them to the same standards as rank and file JW's and that makes them an Elite.
  
  Why are you so eager to excuse celebrity JW's? They are not better and no worse than any of the rest of us. Hero worship seems to cause people to allow bad behavior with alarming regularity. Is that a good thing?
• 
  53

  Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lhcparuzpc

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• 

  Terry

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LhcParuzpc
• 
  3

  VETTING your source of information (or, how Conspiracy Theories are transmitted)

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i'm not black but i grew up in a black neighborhood.. well--wait!

  that's not exactly correct.

  i grew up in what was called a "colored".

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  Terry

  It takes a determination and dedication above average to ferret out ambiguous claims, false connectors, tenuous flim-flam and preposterous nonsense when it is delicious, mysterious, titillating and falls in with your own taste for the prejudicial bias.
  
  I gave up wondering how these stories get started when I joined FACEBOOK, because that is about all I see on a daily basis!
  
  People make stuff up and other people repost it--and away we fly!
• 
  6

  PRINCE's Playlist (Only for the curious)

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm so old, i can remember when these things were called mix tapes!https://drive.google.com/folderview?.

  i've compiled the above into .mp3 below:.

  id=0b6a8sp5_psf-mfrys0lxcvracwm&usp=sharing.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Terry

  I'm so old, I can remember when these things were called MIX TAPES!
  

  _________________

  At one time or another, I think most of us have compiled Mix Tapes or Party Tracks.
  I went through the above list and listened to Prince's Party mix.
  
  I experimented years ago with making tapes with varying strategies.
  The craziest one was the idea of a graduated tempo, which is to say, I began with slow music and track by track accelerated the pace.
  It turned out to be a lousy idea.
  
  DJ's are quite popular in clubs and what they do is keep the groove going.
  A vast collection of tracks and a good memory and sense of continuity seem to be the most important talent.
  
  What was your best mixed tape strategy?
  
  
  
  
  

  ---

  ---
• 
  3

  VETTING your source of information (or, how Conspiracy Theories are transmitted)

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i'm not black but i grew up in a black neighborhood.. well--wait!

  that's not exactly correct.

  i grew up in what was called a "colored".

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• 

  Terry

  I'm not black but I grew up in a black neighborhood.

  Well--wait! That's not exactly correct. I grew up in what was called a "colored"

  neighborhood. The only kid I had to play with was "colored" and the color was black.

  He and I became friends, but that friendship was very limited by our cultural differences. He thought differently about everything.

  My grandmother tried to explain this to me.

  She had been born and reared in New Orleans where a kind of cultural integration was a reality. Not absolutely, of course. But, comparatively.
  My Grandmother, when she was a little girl growing up, was cared for daily by a black lady who lived in her home and who treated her better than her own mother and father.
  She had zero prejudice in her heart.
  The black kid I played with was named Prince (no, not the celebrity) and he was kind, gentle, and overly respectful of me. I was about 10, but he called me Mister Terry.

  Prince thought differently because his source of information and values were from his grandmother. My grandmother was in her 70s and she had been born in the late 1800's. Prince's grandmother was almost 90. She had been raised by ex-Slaves!
  Her values and Prince's values were shaped by incredibly difficult circumstances I won't iterate here because you should know them already.
  When you are uneducated, you are ignorant of a lot of facts, data, information and such. What you receive as "truth" is mostly guesswork shaped by emotions and prejudice.
  Folk Wisdom contains some true things and a lot of false things.
  From generation to generation the older people, hardened by life, transmit their very flawed "wisdom" to their children and--if possible--to their grandchildren.
  My Grandmother and Grandfather taught me many things from their own "wisdom" which was also flawed in many, many ways. So both the white kid and the black kid in that same neighborhood were ignorant and prejudiced and misinformed by people who truly loved them and who we both respected.
  Our family and the oldest members of our family were respected as sources of TRUTH.
  __________

  I wanted to post this interview for 3 reasons.

  Dick Gregory is an old black man with tremendous gravitas in the black community. He was an activist alongside Martin Luther King. He was at the forefront of Civil Rights activism. He is a source of "information" directly connected to persons and events which are prodigiously mythical.
  He absorbed and developed an enforced SKEPTICAL attitude about information from certain (white) sources (for good reason.)
  In turn, he privately began reading, investigating, conversing with others the same way a JW might peek at the Internet for the "real" truth about the Truth.
  
  Today Dick Gregory is considered THE MAN to ask for the REAL truth about almost everything pertaining to white vs. black.
  If Gregory says it, you see, it must be truer than any so-called 'facts' from white sources.  Perfectly understandable, if you stop and think about it.
  
  Here is where the title of this Discussion Topic comes in.
  

  VETTING your source of information (or, how Conspiracy Theories are transmitted)

  There is--I believe--a great deal of similarity between the naive absorption of negative information on the part of Dick Gregory and the naive absorption of JW's indiscriminately doing research about the Watchtower. There are so many non-factual sources. . . HOW is a person to know what is true and what is opinion or prejudice??
  
  Listen to at least fifteen minutes of Dick Gregory as this young person in media asks him for the "Truth" and then ask yourself how in the world this "truth" could be swallowed whole?
  
  I'd like your opinion because there are so many things people believe (regardless of color or education or religious background) which are simply NOT true---so why don't we learn HOW to VET our sources?

  The non-sequitur transitions in Dick Gregory's pearls of wisdom are countless.
  There is a kind of logic which is illogical but sounds very convincing!
  The same is true for JW's.

  The same may be true for Ex-JW's who listen to the wrong activists or go to the wrong YouTube videos or read the wrong web blogs.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TC_wopQlmo
  
  
  __________________
  

  vet1

  vet/

  verb

  gerund or present participle: vetting

  1. make a careful and critical examination of (something).

     "proposals for vetting large takeover bids"

     synonyms:

     check, examine, scrutinize, investigate, inspect, look over, screen, assess,evaluate, appraise;  informalcheck out "press releases are vetted by an executive council"

     • BRITISH

       investigate (someone) thoroughly, especially in order to ensure that they are suitable for a job requiring secrecy, loyalty, or trustworthiness.
• 
  41

  Review of Dr. Chryssides' new book on Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Old Goat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2016/04/a-review.html.

  the book costs 140.00, but i bought it.

  i agree with dr. de vienne's review.

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  Terry

  If I remember correctly, you can preview a certain number of pages at a time on Google Books.

  Let's say you want to preview Chryssides' Historical Dictionary of Jehovah's Witnesses

  (https://books.google.com/books?id=Xx6nUwZzeCsC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false)

  This alone will give you a flabbergasting glimpse at details you never imagined existed.

  It is quite an exhaustive study, believe me!