Terry, in your short story, do you think the people went anywhere after they died?
In direct response to your question: "There is no PLACE or destination and there is no GO" in the
usual understanding or meaning of words.
I think about those nested Russian dolls (one inside the other inside another, etc) and visualize
how primitive philosophers (i.e. Ancient Greeks) conceptualized all the civilizations of mankind
that way. Every person who ever existed was inside Adam's balls :)
An artist or writer or any storyteller has worlds and peoples inside the egg and sperm of mere thought and as real or as gossamer as the touch of moonlight on your shoulder.
In other words, more "real" than real.
Here. Not here. Where? Not here.
Or as the Hindus tell it: Turtles all the way down...infinite regress
Posts by Terry
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19Who is the who of WHO we ARE? And when we die......where does the "who" go?
by Terry inif and when you deposit the check from me in your own bank--what happens to my actual personal wealth?.
2.what happens to my ability to use my entire personal wealth?
so, how do we answer the question of what happens to you when you die?.
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Terry
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19
Who is the who of WHO we ARE? And when we die......where does the "who" go?
by Terry inif and when you deposit the check from me in your own bank--what happens to my actual personal wealth?.
2.what happens to my ability to use my entire personal wealth?
so, how do we answer the question of what happens to you when you die?.
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Terry
THAT IDEA is embedded in this very short story I wrote:
THE LUCKY TICKET
Banks closed and long lines formed to snatch a free loaf of bread in hope of feeding a desperate family!
There was nothing Great about the Great Depression.________
In a cabin in the Appalachian mountains there lived a family of four.
Plain folk. Ignorant. Proud. Godly.
There were two young children, (a boy 12 and a girl 9) as well as their mom and their father who had recently lost his job at the local sawmill.The children were afraid they'd starve to death. The subject arose all too often.
It was probably a comment they’d overheard the last time they went into the town last week, a final end-of-season trip before winter closed the roads and passes.
______"Mommy," the little boy moaned, "are we going to die?"
"No, no, no," his mother reassured him as she forced a broad smile.
"Let me show you two something."Their mother straightened her posture and strode confidently into the adjacent room.
She took her son's hand and walked the boy and his small, delicate sister over to the pantry. . . and opened the door with a mysterious and grand gesture of importance.She found a step stool and jigged up . . . stretching with some effort to reach a colorful box on the top shelf of the pantry closet.
A thin strap she grasped at last and the tug revealed a rather bountiful box. Their mother turned around with wide eyes and a beaming smile--as though she were holding a Christmas present.
Her cheerful and excited audience overflowed with anticipation reflected in the brightness of their eyes. She paused for effect, arched an eyebrow teasingly, and tossed her head in a gesture of “Follow me.”
The giggling children scampered behind their mom into the kitchen with the precious cargo ceremoniously lowered atop a Lazy Susan turntable.
The mother’s movements were achingly slow, deliberate, and powerfully evocative.
The lid appeared tightly fitted and held in place with two clasps not unlike a steamer trunk only much smaller.
_____
What could possibly be so wonderful to deserve such a presentation?
Their mother tilted the box and cooed a rather musical squeal of self-delight to punctuate the moment of grandeur.
“Here’s our box of miracles! I won this at Sears and Roebuck catalog store! Out of a hundred folks--I drew the lucky ticket!”Inside: all manner of brightly colored fruit! Perfect Oranges, dazzling bananas, portentous grapes, gleaming cherries, and pineapple of impossible proportions!
"You see that my little Darlin’s?"
The children nodded silently with wonder brimming in their eyes.
Their parents squinted at the box and at each other.
He shrugged. She pursed her lips and snorted.
“Miracle fruit for cheery kids!”
Their mother searched their faces for any signs of disappointment and found none at all."As long as we have this we are never going to starve to death, silly boy.”
The brother and his little sister relaxed and radiated a profound relief. The tension fell away as mischievous covetousness arose.
"Can we have a cherry right now?" Her son’s eyebrows lifted.
"No, sweetheart, this is for later. Much later--only for emergencies. You know, just in case…” She stopped herself short of finishing with “... things get really really bad."
_____Weeks crawled by and their Daddy hunted the woods for squirrel, rabbit or even less appetizing possibilities such as frogs and lizards. The menu and its variety slacked steadily into a kind of punishment rather than a reward as the children began to lose weight.
Bitter cold surrounded them. Clouds hugged the treetops and very little sunlight shone through the permanent ashy gray of full winter.The normally spry and fidgety little boy and his vigorous sister soon lost the radiance in their eyes. Day by day they became listless . . . played very little . . gradually turned hollow and pale. An old carrot and half a potato made into soup lit no fire inside.
Their parents listened with hearts breaking to muffled whimpering in their beds at night with their little bellies growling like distant thunder.
Sometimes it was unbearable. Maybe one turnip for four people.
Mother would light a candle and fetch the box from the pantry shelf and place it on their bed in front of the starving children as though she were god’s own angel summoned to answer the prayer for salvation.
"It looks so delicious, Mommy! Please, please....can't we have just a taste of.....one....just one grape?"
But, their mother would sternly shake her head from side to side with great sadness and tell them it was for later. Her face was a mask of profound resolve. She heaved two lingering sighs before the awful phrase.
"When things get really bad." (After all, there was grass and shoe leather left.)
The little ones understood in the marrow of their bones, their Mommy and Daddy really loved them and once again, reassured-- they'd drift off to a peaceful sleep. Their parents held back their sorrow and buried their faces in the pillows to stifle the sobbing of despair.
______Winter was hard and snowdrift prevented much hunting. All game animals seemed to vanish. Each hour of the day was like the next. Neither day nor night seemed much different from the one before or the one yet to come.
Nights were exhausting and punishing in freezing gales overcast with frequent high winds and flashing bolts of hostile lightning snarling like beasts outside. Every moment conspired to end hope itself. Dreams paused and even the pain of anemic hope ceased all meaning.
_____Spring had come!
The quick thaw brought a new season as the forest came alive with birdsong and the rustle of rabbits and foxes in tall grass.
Hunters on horseback arrived at the cabin.
The burly men dismounted and unpacked a sled filled with comestibles. The tall man with the red beard knocked the door with his large knuckled fist. Loud. Louder. Again. Once more.
Knowing the people who lived inside, they grew worried.
The anxious trappers leaned hard into it and burst open the door and called out, "Anybody home?"
It was abyss dark inside and there pervaded a terribly offensive smell chilling the hearts of those men.
These were seasoned men accustomed to most hard things in life and yet they stood motionless in a premonition neither was willing to accept.Gradually, their eyes adjusted to the veil of darkness.
They found them. All dead in their beds.
Holding each other-- the little brother and sister; the Mom and Dad.
Gaunt and wispy they were-- like the limbs of a leafless tree.
The stillness was heartbreaking...impossible to take in or accept. Profoundly cruel and yet not uncommon in these mountains and hard times generally.On the dinner table a few feet away stood a box.
The men jerked at rags used as curtains, tugging them away from the window glass and the garish beams of light flooded the room with dreadful details to haunt their nightmares ever after.
They crept over to the table and the box--the only color visible in the entire world inside the cabin.The men opened it not knowing what to expect.
Inside that box was an obscenely cheery and colorful display like you’d sometimes see in the large department stores back East.
A few gnawed pieces of colored fruit.
Four empty spaces.
Tucked in the corner of the lid was the lucky ticket.They slowly made out words under the lid:
"It looks just like the real thing!"At the bottom of the card in small letters, it read:
WAX FRUIT Sears and Roebuck.
Caution
Tiny letters in red:
(For Display Only...poisonous)
__________T.E.Walstrom
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TODAY is my 56th anniversary of GOING TO PRISON as a Jehovah's Witness Conscientious Objector
by Terry inwhat happened to jehovah’s witness young men and why did it happen?______in the 1960s men of draft age were called upon to either serve in the military (during the vietnam war) or to comply with the alternate service option: serving in a hospital or community in need.. non-jehovah’s witnesses were faced with only one refusal: military service.jw boys and young men were instructed (in private) to refuse the alternate civilian service as well.
the superior authorities had made this exemption for people of conscience.the law was clear on this.
if we worked in a hospital community we would be free to go about our witnessing ministry - if we double-refused: we would languish in prison.a no-brainer to them.
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Terry
NotFormer17 minutes ago
What did the powers that be in the WT think they were achieving? They could have had their conscientious objectors employed and able to do field service. Instead, they gave them criminal records and thus reduced their ability to donate to "da whirled woid woik".
Those Newboy threads about Bethel life suggested that the situation was deliberately created to establish a pool of desperate young men who would willingly serve at Bethel under any conditions.
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TODAY is my 56th anniversary of GOING TO PRISON as a Jehovah's Witness Conscientious Objector
by Terry inwhat happened to jehovah’s witness young men and why did it happen?______in the 1960s men of draft age were called upon to either serve in the military (during the vietnam war) or to comply with the alternate service option: serving in a hospital or community in need.. non-jehovah’s witnesses were faced with only one refusal: military service.jw boys and young men were instructed (in private) to refuse the alternate civilian service as well.
the superior authorities had made this exemption for people of conscience.the law was clear on this.
if we worked in a hospital community we would be free to go about our witnessing ministry - if we double-refused: we would languish in prison.a no-brainer to them.
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Terry
BluesBrother18 hours ago
Still, to Terry and the others … at least you did not end up in Vietnam and come home in a box or a wheelchair, like so many did… and your conscience is clear that you did not take part in that unjust war or kill the innocent.
____________________
As I mentioned (above) that would NOT have been my fate because ALTERNATE SERVICE
legally provided me with the option of non-military COMMUNITY SERVICE instead - and by
*double refusing* I and the other Brothers were guaranteed to be of NO SERVICE to anybody.
Our time was utterly wasted. THAT is my regret.
For some peculiar reason - even EX JW's don't seem to be able to grasp that distinction which makes such a difference. Conscientious Objectors did NOT face Vietnam. They only faced COMMUNITY SERVICE which JW boys were steered way from. -
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CIVILIAN SERVICE
by blondie inhow many remember when the wts changed their policy on alternative service; changed it to alternative civilian service so jw men could choose it because it was not supervised by the military.
shows how the wts quibbles with words to advance a "new teaching.
" flag salute, voting, civilian service p. 212. civilian service.
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Terry
raymond frantz6 hours ago
Which country did you go to prison Terry?
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The country of TEXAS in Seagoville just outside of Dallas. -
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CIVILIAN SERVICE
by blondie inhow many remember when the wts changed their policy on alternative service; changed it to alternative civilian service so jw men could choose it because it was not supervised by the military.
shows how the wts quibbles with words to advance a "new teaching.
" flag salute, voting, civilian service p. 212. civilian service.
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Terry
I recently started a Topic on the anniversary of my imprisonment: https://shorturl.at/qwACI
and discussed the fact that EVEN NOW the Brothers who served time in Federal Prison are NOT AWARE
of how we were tricked into acting against our own best interests!
JW's would say: We refused to violate our Neutrality by declining Military Service.
I would say: NO. You were in prison because you DOUBLE REFUSED:
1. Military service which you were LEGALLY PERMITTED TO REFUSE
but you went beyond the scope of the law when you...
2. REFUSED the Alternate option of community service.
It was for that 2nd refusal we suffered needlessly. -
3
Governing Body as an UNRELIABLE AUTHORITY and the Consequences of its Misjudgments
by Terry ini've been experimenting with artificial intelligence as a research tool and for its lightning quick ability to summarize and convert information about the watchtower org into an essay.
the following is the result of 2 separate text prompts.
the first is in the form of a final argument before a jury.the second is a breaking down of the analogy between legal liability in healthcare and tying it in with religious authoritymalpractice.
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Terry
I've been experimenting with Artificial Intelligence as a research tool and for its lightning quick ability to summarize and convert information about the Watchtower Org into an Essay.
The following is the result of 2 separate text prompts. The first is in the form of a Final Argument before a jury.
The second is a breaking down of the analogy between legal liability in healthcare and tying it in with Religious Authority
malpractice.
UNRELIABLE AUTHORITY
The Unseen Consequences of Misjudgment
____________________________________________________________________
Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, we are here today to discuss the difference in culpability between two scenarios: one involving misjudgment in giving bad advice, and the other involving presumptuous bad advice given by an authority claiming bona fide inside information.In the first scenario, we have a situation where an individual, perhaps with good intentions, gives advice that turns out to be incorrect due to a misjudgment. This could be due to a lack of knowledge, a misunderstanding, or a simple mistake. While the consequences of this advice may be unfortunate, it is important to remember that we all make mistakes. The key question here is whether the individual acted negligently or recklessly in giving this advice, or whether they made a reasonable effort to ensure the accuracy of their advice.
In the second scenario, we have an authority figure who gives bad advice while claiming to have bona fide inside information. This is a more serious situation. Here, the authority figure is not only giving incorrect advice, but they are also misleading others by claiming to have special knowledge that they do not actually possess. This can lead to a breach of trust and can cause significant harm, especially if people rely on this advice due to the authority of the person giving it.
In comparing these two scenarios, it is clear that the latter involves a greater degree of culpability. While both situations involve the giving of bad advice, the presumptuousness and deceit involved in the second scenario make it far more egregious. It is one thing to make a mistake; it is another thing entirely to mislead others while in a position of authority.
In conclusion, while both scenarios involve actions that can lead to negative outcomes, the culpability involved in each is significantly different. Misjudgment can happen to anyone and, while not ideal, is often a part of the human experience. Presumptuous bad advice from an authority claiming inside information, on the other hand, involves a deliberate deception that can lead to a significant breach of trust. It is this breach of trust, ladies and gentlemen, that sets the two scenarios apart in terms of culpability.
Thank you.In both healthcare and religious contexts, misjudgments can lead to profound ethical, legal, and philosophical consequences.Healthcare Misdiagnosis: A Breach of Trust
Misdiagnosis in healthcare, especially when it results in unnecessary and invasive treatment, is a serious concern. It violates the ethical principles of beneficence (doing good) and non-maleficence (avoiding harm), as patients are subjected to unnecessary harm due to treatments for conditions they do not have. This also infringes on patient autonomy, as their informed consent is based on incorrect information.
In effect, the person trusting an Authority is being advised against their own best interests due to influence of bona fide trust.Legally, if misdiagnosis is deemed medical negligence, healthcare providers may face legal action, potentially resulting in a medical negligence claim. Philosophically, misdiagnoses highlight the inherent uncertainty in medicine and raise questions about justice, fairness, and the role of technology in healthcare.
Religious Predictions: A Crisis of Faith
Similarly, religious organizations like Jehovah’s Witnesses making specific predictions about events such as “the end of 6,000 years of human history” can have significant implications. Ethically, if these predictions lead to harm, such as financial instability or health issues, the organization may be seen as failing in its duty of care towards its members.
Legally, the organization could potentially face action if the predictions lead to harm, especially if they encouraged followers to take specific actions. Philosophically, this situation raises questions about the nature of belief, the responsibility of religious organizations, and the balance between faith and rationality.
In conclusion, whether in healthcare or religion, it’s crucial to have checks and balances in place to minimize errors and their impact. It’s equally important for patients and followers to seek second opinions or question the information they receive. After all, the cost of misjudgment can be high, and the consequences far-reaching.
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Is there a 'dark mode' available for this site?
by ProdigalApostate ini view this site on my mobile browser and would prefer to use it in dark mode (white text on black background).
dark mode helps conserve battery on an oled display used on most phones.
how do i enable it for this site?
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Terry
iloowy.goowy2 days ago
@Terry, dark mode is white text on black. It saves battery.
Not to be confused with the dark web, that has to do with encryption and anonymity.
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THIS is how Jehovah operates? Examining GB Jefffrey Winder's words
by Terry ingoverning body member jeffrey winder on jw dot org:“we are not embarrassed about ‘adjustments’ that are made; nor is an apology needed for not getting it ‘exactly right’ previously.
we understand: this is how jehovah operates.”
1952 no wt 6/1/52 p.338 1965 maybe they will be resurrected .
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Terry
DesirousOfChange
I gather you escaped while in your 30’s. Evidently, I’m a “slow learner” as it took me another 20 years.
___________________________
I was 12 years old when I met my "Best Friend" in elementary school, Johnny Santa Cruz.
We bonded over a love for Monster movies and Jerry Lewis comedies.
He always brought up the Bible and started asserting bits of "DID YOU KNOW" factoids that actually
made me feel stupid. My family were not church goers but they believed in God and there was a Bible in the house.
In other words, I was pig-ignorant about Doctrine or the gestalt of the Bible.
Johnny and I were intellectually competitive.
He presented a challenge.
I couldn't match him fact for fact at all. I knew NOTHING about the Bible.
I had a huge vocabulary and I was well-read and quick-witted but HE KNEW the Bible.
It was like a boxing match with one of the fighters' hands tied behind his back.
WHAT TO DO?
We started a "Bible study" and I was smart enough to point out to him that the PARADISE BOOK
was NOT the Bible. Oh, I gave him a very hard time and he remained exasperated but patient.
I was invited to the KINGDOM HALL.
Spending so much time with his family and comparing them to my family - I felt very comfortable going with them and checking it out.
LOVE BOMBING, friendliness, smiling faces, a welcoming spirit REALLY sucked me in. I was horribly shy but a very bright kid. I could soak up those books and memorize scriptures and I blossomed like field of sunflowers.
THAT was my beginning of indoctrination. Very pleasant and quite intensive.
It is easy for me to memorize complicated things. The Bible (and JW doctrine) is a labyrinth of blind alleys.
Did I "believe" any of it? Hmmmm.
Honestly, I didn't have to FEEL belief because I had a head full of DATA and I became conversant.
Back in those days of the nineteen fifties and early sixties, there was no such thing as
Asperger's or Spectrum disorder syndromes.
I WOULD HAVE BEEN a shining example, had there been.
The Kingdom Hall / Jehovah's Witness experience was my THERAPY. It worked for me.
I learned to meet strangers, shake their hand.
I learned to be outgoing (I was faking it till I became real).
I learned public speaking (bye bye shyness - I had a real talent).
You know how it works - we've all been there.
My starting date was 1959 and I lasted until 1979. I was baptised the say after JFK was shot.
November 23, 1963
GOING TO PRISON was a COMING OF AGE experience for me as a person, a boy into MAN.
I formed a BOND with other Brothers and learned to talk to God.
I was transformed into a TRUE BELIEVER as soon as I lied about not being raped.
I convinced myself!
Amazing how the mind works when it isn't working.
When I was paroled, I was out of my frickin' mind. I was a rabid JW, on fire, irrepressible.
Over a space of 4 years I got worn down to the bone.
My mind crashed. I was a cornered and desperate animal looking to bite or to escape.
I escaped to California with my wife and three tiny kids.
I remained a JW on the margins as my ART career blossomed.
I made "worldly" friends who treated me wonderfully well and they were good, fine humans.
NOT the kind of worldly I had had stigmatized inside my head.I could say the JW mantra words and go through the motions but splitting my personality
like that was exhausting and unhealthy. I started SEEING and HEARING the empty
phrases and excuses for 1975 FAILURE among the Brothers.
That was the tipping point.
JW FAITHFUL are talented at talking themselves into it and among each other.
IT IS ALL PIOUS FRAUD.
20 years through the sausage grinder.
That was more than enough for me.
I BECAME A HUMAN BEING because the JW's taught me how to communicate with other human beings.
I became mentally strong because I made it through 1967-69 among criminals and abuse.
I fond it - I lost it - I found it.
Over and over.
What is "it"?
IT IS ME. Experiencing LIFE through many lenses.
I've been up, down, over, and out - like the Frank Sinatra song :)
THAT's LIFE for everybody. Some slower, some faster.
Age 12 to Age 32.
That's more information than anybody asked for - but there it is.
THAT'S LIFE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvfImv9NseYThat's life
(That's life)
That's what all the people say
You're riding high in April, shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune
When I'm back on top, back on top in JuneI said that's life
(That's life)
And as funny as it may seem
Some people get their kicks
Stomping on a dream
But I don't let it, let it get me down
Cause this fine old world, it keeps spinnin' aroundI've been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate, a poet
A pawn and a king
I've been up and down and over and out
And I know one thing
Each time I find myself
Flat on my face
I pick myself up and get
Back in the raceThat's life
(That's life)
I tell you, I can't deny it
I thought of quitting, baby
But my heart just ain't gonna buy it
And if I didn't think it was worth one single try
I'd jump right on a big bird and then I'd flyI've been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate, a poet
A pawn and a king
I've been up and down and over and out
And I know one thing
Each time I find myself layin'
Flat on my face
I just pick myself up and get
Back in the raceThat's life
(That's life)
That's life and I can't deny it
Many times I thought of cutting out but my heart won't buy it
But if there's nothing shaking come this here July
I'm gonna roll myself up
In a big ball and die
My, my -
27
TODAY is my 56th anniversary of GOING TO PRISON as a Jehovah's Witness Conscientious Objector
by Terry inwhat happened to jehovah’s witness young men and why did it happen?______in the 1960s men of draft age were called upon to either serve in the military (during the vietnam war) or to comply with the alternate service option: serving in a hospital or community in need.. non-jehovah’s witnesses were faced with only one refusal: military service.jw boys and young men were instructed (in private) to refuse the alternate civilian service as well.
the superior authorities had made this exemption for people of conscience.the law was clear on this.
if we worked in a hospital community we would be free to go about our witnessing ministry - if we double-refused: we would languish in prison.a no-brainer to them.
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Terry
What percentage of brothers in USA were told that? I was never told that.
Nixon stopped the draft a month before I was scheduled to appear.
______________
A per one hundred breakdown is not within my capability because I only have
surreptitious access to the still living / still in Brothers who were in prison.
I've been very careful, methodical, and circumspect in my queries. Out of the
40 or so Brothers I spoke with back in the late 60s, every one of them was
privately counseled the same way. They were from Southern states, Oklahoma, Louisiana,
Arkansas, Texas mostly. As a sample size - I don't know how representative this is.
There were 5 Draft Age Bros. in my home congregation. Only 2 of us went to the clinker.
With the other 3 it was a "don't ask - don't tell" situation.
One Bro had a mom who was best friends with the head of the local Draft Board. She was
not a JW. He ended up working at a GOODWILL INDUSTRIES job for 2 years.
Another Bro had a wealthy dad. So, every variation on that theme was possible.
I discovered a few years back, when an EXJW confessed it to me - he had bribed his way out.
Cash changed hands. A political thing. He is a wealthy engineer and he comes from money.
There are thousands of stories in this experience. Maybe there is no "there" there as far as
that goes.
If you want to know what a REAL conscientious objector, true-believing Christian would do -
Watch the movie HACKSAW RIDGE about the real life C.O. Desmond Doss (An Adventist).
Now THAT was courage and integrity!
We JW boys pretty much had a relatively easy time of it all things considered.
Yes, I was sexually molested - but - it didn't kill me and at the time - didn't wreck my faith.
I lied about the severity of it to my prison Brothers, inventing a kind of "Jehovah saved me" scenario as might be expected. In reality, so many of us were brutally treated one on one and lying about it for the sake of the FAITH BUBBLE. Who knows what any would be Christian in history really experienced, eh?
It has a name: Pious Fraud.
It happens because True Believers don't want to ruin the fantasy for the others."Pious fraud" is a term used to describe actions or deceptions that are committed with the belief that they serve a greater good or a religious or moral purpose. While these actions may involve dishonesty or deception, they are often rationalized by those who commit them as being for a higher cause. Here are several examples:
1. **Forgery of Religious Artifacts:** Throughout history, individuals have created or altered religious artifacts, such as relics, in an attempt to strengthen the faith of believers. For example, in the Middle Ages, some churches claimed to possess pieces of the True Cross, but many of these were likely forgeries.
2. **Religious Propaganda:** Some religious texts or writings may contain exaggerations or embellishments to promote faith. For instance, hagiographies (biographies of saints) often included miraculous events or deeds to inspire piety.
3. **Religious Charlatans:** Certain individuals throughout history have claimed to have divine powers or connections to the divine, using their perceived authority to exploit believers. These charlatans may use deception to gain followers and accumulate wealth.
4. **Apocryphal Texts:** Some religious traditions have included texts that were not included in official scripture but were revered by certain sects. These texts may have been written with good intentions but contain exaggerated or false claims.
5. **Altered History for Religious Reasons:** In some cases, religious leaders or organizations have altered historical events to fit a particular religious narrative. For instance, changing the dates of significant events or claiming divine intervention in historical battles.
6. **Religious Miracles:** While many people genuinely believe in the miracles attributed to religious figures or events, some skeptics argue that some of these stories are embellished or even fabricated to promote faith.
7. **Suppression of Contradictory Information:** In some cases, religious institutions or leaders may suppress or downplay information that contradicts their beliefs. This can include censorship of historical evidence or the suppression of scientific discoveries.
8. **Pseudoscience and Health Claims:** Some individuals or organizations promote pseudoscientific or miracle health remedies with religious undertones, claiming that these remedies are in line with divine will.
9. **Misrepresentation of Religious Texts:** In an attempt to make religious texts more appealing or relevant to modern audiences, some individuals or groups may interpret or translate religious texts in ways that deviate from their original meaning.
10. **Invented Relics:** Creating and promoting relics, such as the purported burial cloth of Jesus, the Shroud of Turin, which some claim as evidence of the crucifixion and resurrection, is seen by some as a pious fraud.
It's important to note that the term "pious fraud" is subjective, and what one person considers a deception for a greater religious good, another may see as deliberate dishonesty. These examples illustrate the complexity of the concept and its historical significance.
