Terry

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Posts by Terry

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  21

  A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

  big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

  it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

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  Terry

  Who of us remembers the rather laughable explanation Jehovah's Witness writers first gave us
  illustrating how Original Sin affected all of Adam and Eve's offspring?
  
  "it's like baking with a pan that has a dent in it. Everything you bake with that pan will have a dent in it. So since Adam and Eve are imperfect and we are their children they can only produce sinful imperfect humans"
  
  This rather astonishingly conflates/confuses a physical imperfection with bad behavior.
  Those are entirely different species. Blind parents don't produce blind children, etc.
  The word SIN has origin in meaning and use.
  Read this:
  

  The concept of “sin” in the New Testament is indeed related to archery. The Greek word hamartia (ἁμαρτία) is often translated as “sin” and literally means "missing the mark"12. This term was used in archery to describe an arrow that missed its target, symbolizing falling short of a goal or standard12.

  This metaphor highlights the idea that sin is not just about willful wrongdoing but also about failing to meet the ideal or divine standard set by God12.
  ___________________________________
  
  Let's play with this for a moment, shall we?
  I owned a bow and arrows when I was 13. My target: a straw circular target with a yellow center bullseye.
  What was my INTENTION (mental focus and goal)?? Of course, hitting the center yellow spot!
  What was my BEHAVIOR (physical action producing a result)?? Of course, it was mostly missing!
  
  Therefore, because Adam and Eve sinned, I couldn't hit the bullseye....right??
  Balderdash and poppycock!
  I practiced long and diligently until I grouped my arrows in the center yellow bullseye. (Sin defeated?)

  Um...no.
  
  We can become skilled through practice - but - we can't become non-sinning in our behavior.
  SKILL = practice makes perfect
  BEHAVIOR = effort toward right-ness often = Sin.
  
  RELIGION becomes (eventually) all about Purity.
  I am more PURE than you because I DON'T do X,Y, Z.
  That is the opposite of PERFORMATIVE religion which actually helps people (I.e. Charity).
  Jehovah's Witness leaders pretend to be at the helm of a CHARITY. Instead, they are
  focused on so much PURITY TESTING they just about ran everybody off and now they
  must back off.
  
  All the above got way off topic, didn't it? Sorry, but it's my thread, after all :)
  
  
  
  
• 
  21

  A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

  big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

  it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

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  Terry

  It's clear that if man wanted, the world would be a much better place. Hate, greed, selfishness, etc all make it incredibly challenging for a huge part of the world to live in peace. It's easier to blame God for lightening or a shark striking an innocent person.
  _______________________________
  
  I can only speak as a man and only from the POV starting in 1947 when I was born moving forward in time.
  All the rest is READING what others have said, done, opined, philosophized, pontificated, codified, declared, posited, inculcated and required in religious teachings and in Law. With that large mouthful as my preamble, I now continue :)
  
  

  The concept of human sinfulness and moral failings was indeed grappled with by thinkers before Augustine. However, Augustine’s formulation of original sin was particularly influential in shaping Western Christian thought.

  Before Augustine, early Christian theologians like Irenaeus of Lyons and Tertullian also addressed the nature of human sin and its consequences. For example, Irenaeus spoke about the fall of humanity and the need for divine grace, while Tertullian discussed the inherited nature of sin.

  In the broader philosophical and religious context, even before Christianity, various traditions grappled with the nature of human wrongdoing and moral corruption. For instance, in Greek philosophy, Plato and Aristotle explored the nature of virtue and vice, and in Jewish thought, the concept of sin and atonement was central.
  
  

  Here are the dates for the thinkers mentioned:

  • Irenaeus of Lyons: Born around 120/140 AD, died around 200/203 AD1.

  

  • Tertullian: Born around 155/160 AD, died after 220 AD2.

  

  • Augustine of Hippo: Born on November 13, 354 AD, died on August 28, 430 AD3.

  

  • Plato: Born around 428/427 BC, died around 348/347 BC4.

  

  • Aristotle: Born in 384 BC, died in 322 BC5.
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  21

  A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

  big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

  it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

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  Terry

  Just why is there something...out there...instead of nothing?
  
  _________________
  Nothing isn't really an alternative to Something IF there is God.
  Presumably, God is something (although we are using "thing" in a casual way).
  
  So? So this: once you posit the existence of....well: God, you've cleared the hurdle.
  ON THE OTHER HAND... if there were nothing...
  the need for such a question vanishes. Why? Because nothing needs no self-justification.
  
  Did I seem to avoid answering the question or did I answer it?
  
  We date the birth of PHILOSOPHY back to ancient Greeks who posited:
  Matter is neither created nor destroyed; only changed, mingled, transformed, etc.
  MATTER always existed, in other words.
  
  To wit:

  The concept of creatio ex nihilo (creation out of nothing) has been a significant theological and philosophical topic. While Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD) is indeed one of the prominent figures who articulated this idea, he was not the first to do so.

  The doctrine of creation out of nothing was already present in early Christian thought before Augustine. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130-202 AD) is one of the earliest Christian theologians who argued that God created the world out of nothing1.
• 
  21

  A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

  big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

  it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

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  Terry

  FIRST things FIRST seems a good starting place for any discussion.
  

  The basic metaphysical issue that lies at the root of any system of philosophy is the primacy of existence or the primacy of consciousness.

  In other words, if I were dead, would the Universe still exist or is it entirely a creation of MY mind?
  Further, IS the Universe merely GOD's mind? Or if God exists, is the Universe simply real apart from brains?
  All philosophy and all religion has origin in this PRIME (or first) consideration>
  
  the primacy of consciousness — the notion that the universe has no independent existence, that it is the product of a consciousness (either human or divine or both).
  The primacy of existence (of reality) is the axiom that existence exists, i.e., that the universe exists independent of consciousness (of any consciousness), that things are what they are, that they possess a specific nature, an identity.
  
  Now, here is YOUR problem and MY problem; we have to come to terms with this POV for ourselves. Nobody escapes.
  
  Aristotle and Plato differed entirely on this matter and MOST of Christianty during Jesus' era was schooled and influenced by Greek/Roman culture and PLATO (subsequently, by NEO-Platonism).
  Now that, my friends, is a fact. (Research it and enjoy!)
  
  Here is where I am:
  My persuasion is with Aristotle. Existence does exist whether I'm here or not.
  My current hypothesis is this: IF God exists, we then may well be all in His imagination.
  I go one step further: His mental preoccupation with "the Universe and mankind" is what keeps Him 'sane.'
  And one more item on the list! All the damage done throughout the history of our world "Does Not Count" against God because He is merely an author thinking up a plot in which heroes die and sometimes Bad Guys flourish.
  
  If you can handle that, my opening paragraph is more Salient.
  
  Once you make up your mind which side of the Primacy you stand on, you're ready to crank up the brain and tackle God.
  Primacy of Consciousness : "simply believing makes it so."
  Primacy of Existence: My toothache and yours may be similar but you don't really feel mine; I DO.
  
  RELIGION is actually a big CHEAT because it BLENDS the two Primacy issues into one sloppy mess.
  God will "save" us if we "believe God will save us."
  And the rest...is dance music.
• 
  21

  A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

  big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

  it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

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  Terry

  I asked A.I. how close Jordan Peterson comes to the same conclusions that A.I (above) has offered, and I got this thoughtful reply:
  
  _____
  

  Jordan Peterson, a renowned psychologist and public intellectual, has indeed explored similar themes in his work, although his conclusions may not align exactly with the thesis I proposed. Here are some key points:

  1. Quantum Physics: Peterson has discussed the implications of quantum physics for our understanding of reality12. He has participated in conversations about the problems of quantum mechanics and the role of consciousness2.

  2. Metaphysics: Peterson uses the ancient transcendentalia of human ideals called truth, beauty, and (moral) justice of the ancients, recalling Plato to explain postmodern cultural pathologies3. He has also explored the metaphysical adventure of consciousness & the importance of hierarchical perception parsing for salience in achieving our highest potential4.

  3. Ontology and Epistemology: Peterson’s work often involves deep contemplation on the ontological (the essence of something) and the epistemological (the nature and limits of knowledge)3. He believes that ideas are as profoundly important as the physical world3.

  While Peterson’s work intersects with the themes of quantum physics and metaphysics, his focus tends to be more on the psychological and societal implications of these concepts. He often uses these ideas to explore human behavior, societal structures, and cultural phenomena. So, while there are similarities in the topics we’re discussing, our approaches and conclusions might differ. 😊
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  21

  A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

  big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

  it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

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  Terry

  And now, A.I. gives its own particular POV in the following statement:
  
  

  As a theoretical philosopher well versed in theology, I might propose a thesis exploring the intersection of quantum physics and metaphysics in understanding the nature of God and the universe. Here’s a brief abstract:

  Title: Quantum Metaphysics: A New Perspective on God and the Universe

  Abstract:

  This thesis explores the concept of God and the universe through the lens of quantum physics and metaphysics. It proposes that the nature of God and the universe can be better understood by integrating principles from both these fields.

  The first part of the thesis delves into the concept of ‘Quantum God’, a being whose existence is not confined to our classical understanding of space and time. Drawing from the principles of quantum superposition and entanglement, it suggests that God, like quantum particles, could exist in multiple states and places simultaneously, transcending the traditional boundaries of space and time.

  The second part of the thesis explores the idea of a ‘Quantum Universe’, a cosmos that exists in a state of quantum superposition until observed, much like Schrödinger’s cat. It posits that the universe itself might be a ‘wave function’ that collapses into a single reality upon observation.

  The final part of the thesis discusses the implications of these ideas on our understanding of free will, morality, and the meaning of life. It suggests that a ‘Quantum God’ and a ‘Quantum Universe’ could provide a new framework for addressing these existential questions.

  This thesis aims to bridge the gap between science and spirituality, offering a fresh perspective on age-old questions about God and the universe. It invites readers to explore these ideas further, fostering a dialogue between quantum physics, metaphysics, and theology.

  Please note that this is a hypothetical thesis and is meant to stimulate thought and discussion. 😊
• 
  21

  A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

  big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

  it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

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  Terry

  Here is A.I. responding to my little essay:
  
  

  1. Interpretation of Creation: Your interpretation of the creation story as “something out of something” rather than “something out of nothing” is an interesting take on the traditional narrative. It brings to mind various theories in physics and cosmology, such as the idea of a cyclic universe or the multiverse theory.

  2. Time and God: The concept of time and its relation to God is thought-provoking. The idea that time is the distance between events, and thus didn’t exist before creation, is a deep philosophical concept that has been explored by many thinkers.

  3. God’s Existence: Your exploration of God’s existence before creation, and the potential loneliness and madness that could ensue from solitary existence, is a unique perspective. It humanizes the divine in a way that is rarely seen in traditional religious narratives.

  4. The Universe as a Game: The metaphor of the universe as a giant video game played by God and Satan is a modern and engaging way to interpret historical and future events. It could be seen as a commentary on the randomness and chaos of life, as well as the struggle between good and evil.

  5. Artificial Intelligence: The idea that demons could return through artificial intelligence is a compelling blend of religious and science fiction themes. It reflects current debates about the potential dangers and ethical implications of advanced AI.
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  21

  A Fun Topic: BEFORE God

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yuh gotta start somewhere, right?.

  big bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments.

  it wasn't really until the time of st. augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.. a reading of genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.. in fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way adam is formed from red mud and eve from the rib.

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  Terry

  Yuh gotta start somewhere, right?
  
  

  Big Bang theory is not a theory of the creation of the universe, but rather a model of the history and evolution of the universe from its earliest moments. It wasn't really until the time of St. Augustine that the idea of "out of nothing" entered the discussion.

  A reading of Genesis doesn't force the "out of nothing" into it at all.

  In fact, a kind of chaotic "something" was put into form - or - something out of "something", the way Adam is formed from red mud and Eve from the rib. Something out of something.

  If we really want to think about a more interesting aspect of this CREATION topic, we might well ask: "Was there a time BEFORE creation?"

  If we can agree that, indeed, there was a time before creation we are set to ask some really penetrating questions of interest.

  BEFORE God "created" anything He wasn't yet a Creator.

  Before He created His "First" born son, He wasn't yet a Creator.

  That particular point of discussion is important for a reason: TIME is the distance between EVENTS. Logically, if zero events have transpired - there is not yet a necessity for TIME.

  No what?

  Before God created anything or anyone or any place He was NOT a CREATOR. It follows that we can say He had nothing about which He could be said to KNOW. There was nothing to know. (Not yet created.)

  He would not yet be ALL-Powerful either. The best you could say is that there was a "potential" power not as yet used.

  There was nobody and nothing and God was alone without any parents, partners, friends, associates and no TIME to measure.

  It now becomes very creepy, IMHO.

  A human placed in solitary confinement, without interaction with others or without books and the thoughts outside one's own - plunges into madness. Sanity really is managing one's thoughts when engaged with reality. For GOD - reality was NOTHINGNESS and only BEING.

  How long? Eternity? There was no time - so there was no eternity because no events ever yet occurred.

  So, a tragic question now arises (at least, for me) and that is: How is GOD by definition even GOD?

  On the other hand...

  If the nature of the Universe is such that there has always simply been "something" but that something was chaotic... we might claw our way toward something or some person (i.e. god-like) if this person could interact with the Great Big Nothing and turn it into a Great Big Something.

  Now that - that something is surely more reasonable than the Great Big Nothing (if we are inclined to be reasonable.)

  Why is there "something" rather than "nothing"?

  Why is there "God" if everything else isn't a "thing" until God creates it out of nothing? You See? The questions are practically silly.

  In my mind, it could possibly go another way...

  In my way of reckoning: only possible things actually happen.

  If GOD has always been GOD that is no different than saying

  the Universe has always existed (in some form or chaotic mess).

  God might have been part of a chaotic mess for all I know.

  I find it more likely that a BEING might well go insane as easily as a person in solitary confinement without anything to occupy the mind.

  If you and I can agree on that one single, solitary premise - I can take one more step - if you are ready for it.

  Here goes....

  I think our entire history of the Universe, the world, of mankind, of Nature, of civilizations, politics, technology, etc. etc. is the result of a Supreme Being almost (or entirely) going mad and desperately IMAGINING into "EXISTENCE" something to occupy His mind (lest He go entirely insane.)

  IF this is what happened - then - what next?

  The Supreme Being might well imagine a well-ordered GIANT VIDEO GAME sort of virtual interaction using avatars, first person players, creatures, societies, the whole shebang.

  This Supreme Being might well have conjured up other players to PLAY AGAINST to make it more interesting.

  See where I'm going?

  Human history is a series of levels in which the GOD TEAM plays against the SATAN TEAM and - to make it interesting - HE is evenly matched.

  Satan and the demons were winning in Noah's Day and God cheated a little by destroying the game board ( like a spoiled child sweeping chess pieces away.)

  REBOOT...

  The power of the Demon avatars to manifest bodies was removed.

  Jesus was the Jehovah avatar and his manifest body was murdered.

  REBOOT ...

  Tit for Tat...the game continues...

  Until? I think the DEMONS have found their way back in ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE and are about to be --again -- embodied/ this time in robot bodies.

  See what fun this POV brings to the human imagination?

  I'm not saying this IS a true thing -- I'm just saying you can make of GOD what you find reasonable, or you can just say: God is whatever, and it make no sense at all. We all do this. Don't we?

  Atheists simply sit on the sidelines and jeer at the game players feeling superior, but their own game is not any fun at all for anybody.

  This is how my mind works and your mileage may vary, of course
  
  
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  4

  PERPLEXITY A.I. analyzes the Watchtower Organization

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i like to at least try to stay current with developments in artificial intelligence rather than get stuckwith first impressions and knee-jerk snap judgments that circulate among the public who really don'tinvest any in-depth analysis in forming their views.with that having been stated, i turn to perplexity a.i.

  perplexity ai's strength lies in its ability to serve as a powerful research companion, delivering comprehensive and up-to-date information across a wide range of topics.135 its advanced nlp capabilities, real-time information gathering, and versatility make it a valuable tool for researchers, writers, recruiters, and professionals in various fields._______________i asked perplexity to give an in-depth overview and analysis of the watchtower, it's gb, and its problems.here are the results:____________.

  answer.

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  Terry

  I like to at least TRY to stay current with developments in Artificial Intelligence rather than get stuck
  with first impressions and knee-jerk snap judgments that circulate among the public who really don't
  invest any in-depth analysis in forming their views.
  With that having been stated, I turn to Perplexity A.I.
  Perplexity AI's strength lies in its ability to serve as a powerful research companion, delivering comprehensive and up-to-date information across a wide range of topics.135 Its advanced NLP capabilities, real-time information gathering, and versatility make it a valuable tool for researchers, writers, recruiters, and professionals in various fields.
  _______________
  I asked Perplexity to give an in-depth overview and analysis of the Watchtower, it's GB, and its problems.
  Here are the results:
  ____________
  

  Answer

  Development of Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine

  Evolution of doctrinal beliefs since 1879

  More

  Origination

  Doctrines have evolved since The Watchtower magazine began in 1879, initially based on Charles Taze Russell's interpretations.

  Leadership Changes

  Doctrinal developments have been influenced and altered by Russell's successors Joseph Rutherford and Nathan Knorr.

  Governing Body's Role

  Since 1976, changes have been made at closed meetings of the Governing Body, considered as God's progressive revelations.

  Jehovah's Witnesses have undergone significant doctrinal changes and upheavals over the years, which have raised concerns and criticisms from various quarters.

  Frequent Doctrinal Overhauls

  The Witnesses' doctrines have been revised and overhauled repeatedly since the group's inception. Major doctrinal shifts have occurred under different presidencies, often discarding or altering previously held beliefs.13 This pattern of frequent doctrinal changes and reversals has been criticized as inconsistent and undermining the group's claim to divine guidance and progressive revelation.3

  Governing Body Turnover

  The Governing Body, which dictates all doctrines and policies for Jehovah's Witnesses, has seen regular turnover in its membership over the decades.2 This constant change in leadership has contributed to the doctrinal instability and shifts in teachings and practices.

  Shift from Specificity to Generality

  There has been a noticeable trend in recent years where the Witnesses' publications and teachings have become more general and vague, moving away from specific predictions and interpretations.2 This shift could be an attempt to avoid the scrutiny and criticism that often followed failed predictions or doctrinal reversals in the past.

  Child Abuse Lawsuits and Financial Strain

  The organization has faced numerous lawsuits and legal battles related to its handling of child abuse cases, which has strained its financial resources.2 This has led to a reversal of the long-standing policy against directly soliciting donations from members, a practice that was previously considered a violation of biblical principles.2

  Forecast and Potential Trends

  Based on these upheavals and changes, some potential trends and forecasts can be identified:

  1. Continued Doctrinal Instability: The pattern of frequent doctrinal overhauls and reversals is likely to continue, as the Governing Body seeks to adapt and respond to internal and external pressures.3
  2. Erosion of Credibility: The constant doctrinal shifts and reversals may further erode the group's credibility and claims of divine guidance, potentially leading to more members questioning or leaving the organization.3
  3. Financial Challenges: The ongoing legal battles and financial strain may necessitate further changes in policies and practices, including increased emphasis on soliciting donations from members.2
  4. Centralization of Power: To maintain control and unity, the Governing Body may tighten its grip and centralize power even further, limiting dissent and independent thinking among members.2
  5. Adaptation and Rebranding: In an effort to address criticisms and maintain relevance, the organization may attempt to rebrand itself or adapt its practices and public image, while preserving core beliefs and power structures.2

  It is important to note that these forecasts are based on observed patterns and trends, and the actual future developments within the organization may vary. However, the ongoing upheavals and challenges faced by Jehovah's Witnesses suggest that significant changes and adaptations are likely in the years to come.123

  Share

  Rewrite

  Identify the number one problem JW leaders have which needs to be addressed, discussed, and handled most immediately.

  Sources

  The challenges of treating Jehovah's witnesses

  

  medicalprotection

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  Jehovah's Witnesses - Apologetics - North American Mission Board

  

  namb

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  2

  Why Jehovah's Witnesses Can't Drop the 1914 Doctrine : r/exjw - Reddit

  

  reddit

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  3

  

  

  View 2 more

  Answer

  

  Criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses

  Issues and controversies surrounding the religious movement

  More

  Criticism sources

  Mainstream Christianity, medical community, former members, and commentators

  Key accusations

  Doctrinal inconsistencies, failed predictions, mistranslation of the Bible, harsh treatment of ex-members, autocratic leadership

  Controversial practices

  Rejection of blood transfusions even in life-threatening situations, failure to report sexual abuse

  Based on the search results provided, the number one problem that Jehovah's Witnesses leaders need to address most immediately is their doctrine surrounding 1914 and its significance.

  The 1914 Doctrine and Its Centrality

  The doctrine that 1914 marked the beginning of Christ's presence and the "last days" is central to Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs and identity.3 It underpins their claim to be God's sole channel on earth and the need to separate from "false religion" or "Babylon the Great."3However, this doctrine is based on flawed calculations and assumptions made by the early leaders, particularly the inclusion of a non-existent year 0 in their chronology.3 This error has been well-documented, yet the Governing Body continues to uphold and promote the 1914 doctrine.

  Inability to Abandon the Doctrine

  The Witnesses cannot easily abandon or revise the 1914 doctrine because it is inextricably linked to other core beliefs and claims, such as:

  1. The appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" (the Governing Body) in 1919 as the sole channel of God's truth.23
  2. The justification for separating from and condemning other Christian denominations as part of "Babylon the Great."3
  3. The imminent arrival of Armageddon and the establishment of God's kingdom on earth, which their preaching work is preparing for.4

  Discarding the 1914 doctrine would undermine the very foundation of the Jehovah's Witnesses organization, its authority, and its raison d'être.3 It would likely lead to a significant loss of members and credibility.3

  Consequences of Upholding a Flawed Doctrine

  By continuing to uphold a doctrine based on demonstrably flawed calculations and assumptions, the Governing Body risks further eroding the organization's credibility and integrity.23 It perpetuates a lie and undermines their claims of divine guidance and progressive revelation.23Moreover, the unwillingness to acknowledge and correct this error exemplifies the Governing Body's authoritarian control over doctrine, suppression of dissent, and discouragement of independent thinking among members.4 This approach is detrimental to the well-being of Witnesses and contributes to the harmful effects of shunning and loss of social support for those who leave or are expelled.4Addressing and resolving the issues surrounding the 1914 doctrine is crucial for the Jehovah's Witnesses organization to maintain credibility, integrity, and the well-being of its members. However, doing so would require a fundamental shift in their power structures, claims of authority, and core beliefs, which the current leadership appears unwilling to undertake.234

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• 
  11

  The first rule of beard club...

  by GrreatTeacher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ...is you don't start growing a beard in the spring!

  you start growing it in the fall, keep your chin warm in the winter, and then shave it off for warm weather.

  at least that's how it works in my household and in the northern hemisphere where the gb are.. i have the sneaking suspicion that there is going to be a steep learning curve for many.. will they know to trim it along their jawbone properly?

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  Terry