Posts by lesterd

52

Jesus as Michael

by Kphoto in

let me start by stating that i'm not a jehovah's witness but have family who have been discussing it with me and i am hoping for a better answer than i have gotten thus far.

i can find no scriptural backing for jesus being the arch-angel michael.

in fact i find things that seem to show me that they are two distinctly different beings.

lesterd

That was their "blanket" policy to replace every lord with Jehovah, that way everyone stays confused and the borg can tell you what they want you to believe at any given time.

29

What is wrong with the Memorial date this year?

by Cindi_67 in

the memorial is supposed to be held in nisan 14, jewish calendar.

that day is april 19, 2008. why is the memorial being held this coming saturday march, 22?

does anybody know?

What is wrong with the Memorial date this year?

by Cindi_67 in

the memorial is supposed to be held in nisan 14, jewish calendar.

that day is april 19, 2008. why is the memorial being held this coming saturday march, 22?

does anybody know?

lesterd

So thats how the light keeps getting brighter and brighter

9

Help finding WT article on Abuse of Power

by UnConfused in

folks - unless my mind is totally gone there was and article in the wt about abusing power and it included everyone and how they might do that including parents, elders, children, women, men etc.

for the life of me i can't find it.

anyone remember it?

lesterd

How can the elders abuse that power, if they are appointed by holy spirirt????

52

Jesus as Michael

by Kphoto in

let me start by stating that i'm not a jehovah's witness but have family who have been discussing it with me and i am hoping for a better answer than i have gotten thus far.

i can find no scriptural backing for jesus being the arch-angel michael.

in fact i find things that seem to show me that they are two distinctly different beings.

lesterd

Time and place? Jesus, his name as a human, Michael as a spirit, Archangel before his earthly existence, and after his death, while awaiting his in thronement as king of kings and lord of lords???

37

Breaking point

by Journeys edge in

although this is my first post under the name journey edge, i have been a member of the board for a few years now.

i just needed to change my identity to avoid being traced.

i left the truth a number of years ago after 20 years in the faith.

Why is he not a DUB anymore, living the lie was the cause of his depression, now he has no reason to be depressed, but feels the post traumatic guilt shock of failure in being a good little witnesse, and quess who is now to blame for his failure? You...being in love with someone never really stops, those feelings are hard to deal with and comes down to; is the pain of staying outway the loss of "possible" love from him? How is all this affecting your kids? They are no dumbies, they see and sense things you really dont want them to know about life and relationships.

Everyone has their own truth and needs to learn it for themselves and be true to themselves, that your first step to freedom, know yourself and what you need and want from life, then go for it.

24

Scan Request Please - Kingdom Ministry 8/2002

by AlphaOmega in

i'd be really grateful if anyone can scan a good quality copy of this kingdom ministry.. ***km 8/02 p.3 display christian loyalty when a relative is disfellowshipped***.

...or maybe someone has one that they'd like to part with for a fee.. there is a scan that has been posted here, but i am looking for one where the source isn't obvious.. .

many thanks.

lesterd

Display

ChristianLoyaltyWhenaRelativeIsDisfellowshipped

1

The bond between family members can be very strong. This brings a test upon a Christian when a marriage mate, a child, a parent, or another close relative is disfellowshipped or has disassociated himself from the congregation. (Matt. 10:37) How should loyal Christians treat such a relative? Does it make a difference if the person lives in your household? First, let us review what the Bible says on this subject, the principles of which apply equally to those who are disfellowshipped and to those who disassociate themselves.

2

HowtoTreatExpelledOnes: God’s Word commands Christians not to keep company or fellowship with a person who has been expelled from the congregation: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. . . . Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Cor. 5:11, 13) Jesus’ words recorded at Matthew 18:17 also bear on the matter: "Let [the expelled one] be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Jesus’ hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesus was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones.—See TheWatchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 18-20.

3

This means that loyal Christians do not have spiritual fellowship with anyone who has been expelled from the congregation. But more is involved. God’s Word states that we should ‘noteveneatwithsuchaman.’ (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person. This would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, ball game, or trip to the mall or theater or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant.

4

What about speaking with a disfellowshipped person? While the Bible does not cover every possible situation, 2 John 10 helps us to get Jehovah’s view of matters: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him." Commenting on this, TheWatchtower of September 15, 1981, page 25, says: "A simple ‘Hello’ to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?"

5

Indeed, it is just as page 31 of the same issue of TheWatchtower states: "The fact is that when a Christian gives himself over to sin and has to be disfellowshiped, he forfeits much: his approved standing with God; . . . sweet fellowship with the brothers, including much of the association he had with Christian relatives."

6

IntheImmediateHousehold: Does this mean that Christians living in the same household with a disfellowshipped family member are to avoid talking to, eating with, and associating with that one as they go about their daily activities? TheWatchtower of April 15, 1991, in the footnote on page 22, states: "If in a Christian’s household there is a disfellowshipped relative, that one would still be part of the normal, day-to-day household dealings and activities." Thus, it would be left up to members of the family to decide on the extent to which the disfellowshipped family member would be included when eating or engaging in other household activities. And yet, they would not want to give brothers with whom they associate the impression that everything is the same as it was before the disfellowshipping occurred.

7

However, TheWatchtower of September 15, 1981, page 28, points out regarding the disfellowshipped or disassociated person: "Former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. . . . That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home. For example, if the husband is disfellowshiped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. If he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime, he has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145, 146) What if a disfellowshiped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas."

8

If a minor child living in the home is disfellowshipped, Christian parents are still responsible for his upbringing. TheWatchtower of November 15, 1988, page 20, states: "Just as they will continue to provide him with food, clothing, and shelter, they need to instruct and discipline him in line with God’s Word. (Proverbs 6:20-22; 29:17) Loving parents may thus arrange to have a home Bible study with him, even if he is disfellowshipped. Maybe he will derive the most corrective benefit from their studying with him alone. Or they may decide that he can continue to share in the family study arrangement."—See also TheWatchtower of October 1, 2001, pages 16-17.

9

RelativesNotintheHousehold: "The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home," states TheWatchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum," in harmony with the divine injunction to "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum.—See also TheWatchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 29-30.

10

TheWatchtower addresses another situation that can arise: "What if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) . . . What is done may depend on factors such as the parent’s true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household."—TheWatchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 28-9.

11

As for a child, the same article continues: "Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring ‘leaven’ into the home?—Gal. 5:9."

12

BenefitsofBeingLoyaltoJehovah: Cooperating with the Scriptural arrangement to disfellowship and shun unrepentant wrongdoers is beneficial. It preserves the cleanness of the congregation and distinguishes us as upholders of the Bible’s high moral standards. (1 Pet. 1:14-16) It protects us from corrupting influences. (Gal. 5:7-9) It also affords the wrongdoer an opportunity to benefit fully from the discipline received, which can help him to produce "peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."—Heb. 12:11.

13

After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter, his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also, her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized.

14

Loyally upholding the disfellowshipping arrangement outlined in the Scriptures demonstrates our love for Jehovah and provides an answer to the one that is taunting Him. (Prov. 27:11) In turn, we can be assured of Jehovah’s blessing. King David wrote regarding Jehovah: "As for his statutes, I shall not turn aside from them. With someone loyal you will act in loyalty."—2 Sam. 22:23, 26.

[Study

Questions]

1. What situation can test a Christian’s loyalty?

2. According to the Bible, how are Christians to treat those expelled from the congregation?

3, 4. What sort of fellowship with disfellowshipped and disassociated people is forbidden?

5. When disfellowshipped, what does a person forfeit?

6. Is a Christian required to cut off all association with a disfellowshipped relative living in the same household? Explain.

7. How does spiritual fellowship within the home change when a family member is disfellowshipped?

8. What responsibility do Christian parents have toward a minor disfellowshipped child living in the home?

9. To what extent should a Christian have contact with a disfellowshipped relative living outside the home?

10, 11. What will a Christian consider before allowing a disfellowshipped relative to move into the home?

12. What are some benefits of the disfellowshipping arrangement?

13. What adjustment did one family make, and with what result?

14. Why should we loyally support the disfellowshipping arrangement?

35

How do you deal with telemarketers?

by Outaservice in

jw
friends

this usually works for me.. "i'm very interested in what you have to say, but first i'd like to ask you a question.

would you enjoy getting the watchtower magazine from me and studying our books?

click..............bzzzzzzzzzzzzz........ outaservice .

lesterd

Cell phones are next, the numbers are being openned up to t-hellamarketers, find a greeting in Vietimize and use it when you answer.

12

Rev. 16:19 ?

by A&S in

this week dealt with this verse .

but it doesn't make sense .

it says : and the great city split into three parts , and the cities of the nations fell , and babylon the great was remembered in the site of god , to give her the cup of the wine of the anger of his wrath .. the rev.

lesterd

Remeber too, that the number three is an incomplete earthly number and would not typify completion of anything, the number seven is heavenly completness and is used in the complete destruction of Babylon.

41

Stuck in the "Truth"

by IMustBreakAway in

jw
friends

i notice from comments posted that many here who post (and untold scores who lurk) are still "in".

perhaps their social / family circles are too constricted for freedom of mind, and or, they are too afraid to rock the boat.

or too young to strike out on their own and are dependent on jw parents for support.

lesterd

Many have the same questions that got us out of the borg, and are looking for answers too, but still dont know how to break away without dividing thier families and freinds. Some of the thing we do, did, to compensate in the anticipation of those looses are pretty bizzar, you cant apply rational thinking to the irrational demands of the borg. Its not a matter of having the testical strength or the smarts to convience, because the JWs funtion on blind "faith" sheep being led with no direction of thier own.