Posts by barry

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

barry

Please do look at the context in Daniel 9 verse 1&2 Daniel understood from the scriptures given to Jeremiah the prophet that the desolution would last 70 years, from verse 4 to 19 Daniel is praying to the lord saying how they have rebelled and turned away from the lord . Verse 20 while Daniel was still in prayer Gabriel comes to give Daniel insight and understandind. In the context of all of this Gabriel declairs as soon as you started to pray an answer was given which I have come to tell you Seven times seventy are decreed for your people and youre holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin , to atone for wickedness.

Thirdwitness please read the context the day year rule is only required if you come to this with preconceived idears.

As I said before the SDAs would like to prove the day year rule as it would validate their other prophecys such as 1844. If you can solve the day year rule you could be of great service to them but you would have to do it in a scholarly way. Im an SDA who cant beleive the day year rule because its not in the bible. Its not found in any good bible commentarys either

I wait eagerly for youre answer but I wont hold my breath.

Barry

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

barry

As I mentioned before bible commentarys including the SDA bible commentary all say the 490 years of Daniel 9 are years because of the context. Daniel is thinking about the captivity of 70 years when the angel appears and declars there will be seven times the 70 years= 490 years. Where is the day for a year principle here? If you can answer Im sure the SDA church could arrange an excellently paid job for you and may put you on their Daniel review committee. The SDA bible commentary specifically says the day year principle is not required to interpret this scripture. The three and a half years was once interpreted by the WT to be 1260 years 538 to 1798 being the dark ages if I remember correctly. Some on here may be able to look up refferences.

5

How to be well treated after leaving JWs

by barry in

jw
friends

my dad a lay preacher in the sda church is staying here in canberra and has some idears about how to be well treated by the elders of the jws.

a member from the nowra church and the pastor came to my dads church for services and they went to my dads house for lunch.

it turned out the member from nowra was a former jw member.

barry

Am I on to something here? Would it have worked in youre situation?

5

How to be well treated after leaving JWs

by barry in

jw
friends

my dad a lay preacher in the sda church is staying here in canberra and has some idears about how to be well treated by the elders of the jws.

a member from the nowra church and the pastor came to my dads church for services and they went to my dads house for lunch.

it turned out the member from nowra was a former jw member.

barry

My Dad a lay preacher in the SDA church is staying here in Canberra and has some idears about how to be well treated by the Elders of the JWs. A member from the Nowra church and the pastor came to my Dads church for services and they went to my Dads house for lunch. It turned out the member from Nowra was a former JW member.

My father got talking to this member about his experiances with the JWs and he was disfellowshiped and had been treated badly as so many here have.

When the JW elders heard this ex JW was going to be Baptized in the SDA church and the JW elders heard about it their attitude began to change and they wanted him back in the Kingdom Hall, no shunning, no disiplinary action.

The ex JW then put the elders in their place and told them in no uncertain terms that there would be no possibility of him rejoining the JWs

When I heard the story I thought thats the answer because its only when JW ex members have no friends or relatives that will even talk to they feel they are in charge but when someone asserts themselves and joins a new community the JWs now their power is lost.

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

barry

Numbers and Ezekial dont teach the year day principle and the bible doesnt need it for any interpretation.

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

barry

Gday Thirdwitness, I havent replied to any of youre posts until now so welcome,

Im an SDA and there are some similarities with in biblical interpretation with the JW positions.

Many SDAs interprete Daniel 8.14 with Daniel 9 requireing the day for a year principle to arrive at 1844

Also the three and a half years is applied to 538 to 1798 the dark ages useing the day for a year principle.

More informed scholars see no necessity to use the day year principle in Daniel 9 because in the context of this chapter the caculation is 7 times 70 years. In fact the SDA bible commentry as well as other good commentries say the day year principle is not required here.

The year day is used pragmatically.

In predictive prophecy the year day principle is not used if it looks silly. eg when Jesus said he would die and in three days he would raise it up the principle is not used. It isnt used with the three and a half years by the JWs but is used by the SDAs with the SDA interpretation. It isnt used with the millenium because the interpretation would seem too long.

Suffice to say Im an SDA who couldnt go along with such an inconsistant and strange rule.

28

Are JWs Not Too Smart? Pros and Cons...

by Seeker4 in

in alanf's thread on whether or not thirdson (or whoever!

) is a gb apologist, there are several posts discussing the intelligence of jws.

on that subject, this is what i observed from over 30 years as a jw:

barry

Ive heard it said only inteligent people can be brainwashed so that would mean JWs are rather smart.

34

Baptized July 05. Left Dec 05.

by Moomin in

i have been lurking on these forums for about 6 months and thought it was time to join in.. i was a child/teen when i first became introduced to jehovah's witnesses through my mum who studied for a while but never fully committed.

i had a study and attended some meetings but it all petered out by the time i hit my late teens and we moved to another town.. for the following 10 years i just lived my life how i pleased.

got married etc.

barry

Gday Moomin, Youre in the right place here, people here have a wealth of information about theWT Society

22

Jesus said his load would be light, the Witnesses made that load very heavy

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i always remember being told that the load jesus expected of his people was not something that should be a burden and basically if you think about the core to christianity, it is not.

basically, jesus said to love one another and to treat others how you would want to be treated and to respect the life you have.

i don't ever remember jesus saying, "have 5 meetings a week, two assemblies a year and one convention.

barry

Its strange teh WT is very much like the religion they criticise the most the Catholic Church. At the time of the reformation the protestants were thought of as liberals because they beleives they could never get to heaven by works and the Catholics said protestiam was a good religion for the dying but impossible religion if a person wanted to live the christian life.

22

Jesus said his load would be light, the Witnesses made that load very heavy

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i always remember being told that the load jesus expected of his people was not something that should be a burden and basically if you think about the core to christianity, it is not.

basically, jesus said to love one another and to treat others how you would want to be treated and to respect the life you have.

i don't ever remember jesus saying, "have 5 meetings a week, two assemblies a year and one convention.

barry

Its strange teh WT is very much like the religion they criticise the most the Catholic Church. At the time of the reformation the protestants were thought of as liberals because they beleives they could never get to heaven by works and the Catholics said protestiam was a good religion for the dying but impossible religion if a person wanted to live the christian life.